Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Pick one

Berkeley
14
54%
USC
12
46%
 
Total votes: 26

indecisive2015
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby indecisive2015 » Sun May 03, 2015 1:11 pm

New poll. Withdrew from everywhere except USC and Berkeley. Have until Wednesday to decide.

MONEY OR PRESTIGE...?

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Redamon1
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby Redamon1 » Sun May 03, 2015 3:57 pm

Seems the choice is not just about money or prestige. It's about career goals. That amount of debt from Boalt is scary but if your goal is truly SF or LA big law, your odds are significantly better of achieving that from Boalt. I don't know enough about USC placement to say for sure, but if you make the perfectly reasonable choice to take on less debt to attend USC, make sure you feel comfortable with a back-up career plan that is more likely out of USC (e.g. smaller firm in LA?).

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... yers/2014/

indecisive2015
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby indecisive2015 » Sun May 03, 2015 4:21 pm

It doesn't seem that different for big law in general. According to LST Berkeley places 39% while USC places 30% in big law.

HalfStudent
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby HalfStudent » Sun May 03, 2015 4:34 pm

Berkeley is usually about 60% clerkship + big firms(over 100). USC is about 40% clerkship + big firms(over 100). With 170 3.7 you should be able to get some money from Berkeley. duke gave you money and isn't Duke one of the schools Berkeley has a matching policy with?? T-20 with a full ride is still a good deal.

indecisive2015
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby indecisive2015 » Sun May 03, 2015 4:46 pm

Yea I submitted my Duke scholarship and got nothing matched... If anyone has tips for negotiating with Berk I would really appreciate it

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Redamon1
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby Redamon1 » Sun May 03, 2015 5:42 pm

HalfStudent wrote:Berkeley is usually about 60% clerkship + big firms(over 100). USC is about 40% clerkship + big firms(over 100).


This, and you can add to the 60+% a number of folks who self select into PI but could have landed big law jobs. Also, you said in your OP that you have a "strong preference for SF big law," which will be much harder to get from USC. All I'm saying is you should be aware of your odds of landing your preferred job in your preferred market out of USC vs. Boalt.

As for scholarship negotiations, Berkeley doesn't typically care all that much about your numbers. They'd be more interested in convincing you to come to Boalt rather than go to another T14 school (though it seems you've already let go of your other offers), especially if you have something singular you can contribute to the class (work experience, distinct interests, diversity etc.). I guess there's no harm in asking again. I think you have until June 1 to confirm at Berkeley, no? So maybe hold on until then and keep trying...

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LawsRUs
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby LawsRUs » Sun May 03, 2015 7:02 pm

Only 10% of 3Ls at USC who get jobs after graduation will go to SF or the Silicon Valley.
Source: Employment packet that USC gave out on admitted students day.

OP, keep asking at Berk.

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rpupkin
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby rpupkin » Sun May 03, 2015 7:07 pm

indecisive2015 wrote:It doesn't seem that different for big law in general. According to LST Berkeley places 39% while USC places 30% in big law.

That comparison is very misleading. Berkeley has about a 15% federal clerkship placement (pretty much all of whom could easily go into big law) and there's a lot more self-selection into PI at Berkeley. Even more relevant for the OP, USC doesn't really place in the San Francisco market.

Having said all that, the OP is looking at huge debt if he/she chooses Berkeley. OP: If you are okay with working in Southern California for at least a few years (and if you are comfortable with the likelihood of not getting big law), then USC is definitely the right choice here. But be realistic: if you go to USC, a legal job in Northern California is unlikely.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby L’Étranger » Sun May 03, 2015 7:13 pm

indecisive2015 wrote:It doesn't seem that different for big law in general. According to LST Berkeley places 39% while USC places 30% in big law.


^What? How did you get that from LST?

Everyone just keeps telling OP the same thing over and over again but he or she is just not hearing it.

krads153
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby krads153 » Tue May 05, 2015 2:38 pm

L’Étranger wrote:
indecisive2015 wrote:It doesn't seem that different for big law in general. According to LST Berkeley places 39% while USC places 30% in big law.


^What? How did you get that from LST?

Everyone just keeps telling OP the same thing over and over again but he or she is just not hearing it.


Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.

That said, I can't believe anyone would pay sticker for Berkeley unless they had like 5 million dollars. Why throw away your money like that? You likely won't even have a biglaw job long enough to pay off your loans....you will probably leave biglaw with six figures of debt (unless this "loan" from your parents is really a gift). Still, what a waste of parents' money.

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Redamon1
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby Redamon1 » Tue May 05, 2015 2:50 pm

krads153 wrote: Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.


Try again: 62.3% + a fair amount of PI self selection http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/berkeley/2014/

krads153
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby krads153 » Tue May 05, 2015 2:52 pm

Redamon1 wrote:
krads153 wrote: Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.


Try again: 62.3% + a fair amount of PI self selection http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/berkeley/2014/


Learning how to read is a valuable asset for practicing law...it was 55.8% and last year refers to last year's stats. It was 55%. Either way, whether it's 55% or 62%, it's a flip of the coin for biglaw.

Berkeley: 47.8 + 8.0 = 55.8%

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245859&p=8517540&hilit=class+of+2013+berkeley#p8517540

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Redamon1
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby Redamon1 » Tue May 05, 2015 2:59 pm

krads153 wrote:
Redamon1 wrote:
krads153 wrote: Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.


Try again: 62.3% + a fair amount of PI self selection http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/berkeley/2014/


Learning how to read is a valuable asset for practicing law...it was 55.8% and last year refers to last year's stats. It was 55%. Either way, whether it's 55% or 62%, it's a flip of the coin for biglaw.

Berkeley: 47.8 + 8.0 = 55.8%

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... y#p8517540


As far as I'm aware, we're in 2015, but whatever, your statement was ambiguous I guess. Apparently being a jerk is also a required trait for practicing law?

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rpupkin
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby rpupkin » Tue May 05, 2015 3:03 pm

Redamon1 wrote:
krads153 wrote:
Redamon1 wrote:
krads153 wrote: Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.


Try again: 62.3% + a fair amount of PI self selection http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/berkeley/2014/


Learning how to read is a valuable asset for practicing law...it was 55.8% and last year refers to last year's stats. It was 55%. Either way, whether it's 55% or 62%, it's a flip of the coin for biglaw.

Berkeley: 47.8 + 8.0 = 55.8%

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245859&p=8517540&hilit=class+of+2013+berkeley#p8517540


As far as I'm aware, we're in 2015, but whatever, your statement was ambiguous I guess. Apparently being a jerk is also a required trait for practicing law?

Not required, but preferred.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby L’Étranger » Tue May 05, 2015 3:06 pm

krads153 wrote:
Redamon1 wrote:
krads153 wrote: Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.


Try again: 62.3% + a fair amount of PI self selection http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/berkeley/2014/


Learning how to read is a valuable asset for practicing law...it was 55.8% and last year refers to last year's stats. It was 55%. Either way, whether it's 55% or 62%, it's a flip of the coin for biglaw.

Berkeley: 47.8 + 8.0 = 55.8%

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245859&p=8517540&hilit=class+of+2013+berkeley#p8517540


He quoted the 2014 numbers. The numbers you quoted are from 2013.

As has been posted again and again on TLS, B students self-select relatively heavily into PI. In 2014, a fifth of the class took PI jobs. That means less folks going into big law.

Students definitely do strike out at B's OCI and there definitely are students at B who want biglaw and don't get it, but the same is true across the T-10. To say that outcomes at B are not on par with the rest of the T-10 based on the numbers you quoted shows that you haven't given the numbers much thought.

krads153
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby krads153 » Tue May 05, 2015 3:11 pm

L’Étranger wrote:
krads153 wrote:
Redamon1 wrote:
krads153 wrote: Berkeley was second to last among the T-14 last year (behind Georgetown) in biglaw+ federal clerkship placement, so it's not surprising. I think it was around 53% or something like that.


Try again: 62.3% + a fair amount of PI self selection http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/berkeley/2014/


Learning how to read is a valuable asset for practicing law...it was 55.8% and last year refers to last year's stats. It was 55%. Either way, whether it's 55% or 62%, it's a flip of the coin for biglaw.

Berkeley: 47.8 + 8.0 = 55.8%

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=245859&p=8517540&hilit=class+of+2013+berkeley#p8517540


He quoted the 2014 numbers. The numbers you quoted are from 2013.

As has been posted again and again on TLS, B students self-select relatively heavily into PI. In 2014, a fifth of the class took PI jobs. That means less folks going into big law.

Students definitely do strike out at B's OCI and there definitely are students at B who want biglaw and don't get it, but the same is true across the T-10. To say that outcomes at B are not on par with the rest of the T-10 based on the numbers you quoted shows that you haven't given the numbers much thought.


Yes, and the class of 2013 numbers were released last year. Berkeley typically places among the bottom 3 for biglaw....

I hear this PI argument a lot from Berkeley students, but people generally don't accept this self-selection as an argument for other schools that place a lot into PI (like NYU, Georgetown, Michigan) , so why should we even care here?

As for the thread, Berkeley at sticker is IMO far too expensive.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Berkeley (sticker) vs. USC ($$$)

Postby L’Étranger » Tue May 05, 2015 3:32 pm

The tldr version of the common wisdom that I've seen/heard and that I strongly agree with is that if you want to work as an attorney in CA and you don't get HYS, B is the way to go. How much attending B is worth to a person, in my mind, depends on how much certainty a person wants in terms of landing a job in CA.

I personally would not have accepted a full scholarship to a school that would have required me to be at the top of the class to get a biglaw job in CA.




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