Darrow vs. Yale

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Yale or Michigan?

Yale
60
68%
Michigan with Darrow
28
32%
 
Total votes: 88

CanadianWolf
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby CanadianWolf » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:21 pm

While this is not a "Yale versus Michigan" issue, it is a "Yale with $250,000 of non-dischargeable increasing student loan debt versus a prestigious scholarship and additional living stipend from a T-14 law school for one who is uncertain of his specific legal practice area interest". In short, it's a test of one's common sense.

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RunnerRunner
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby RunnerRunner » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:32 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:While this is not a "Yale versus Michigan" issue, it is a "Yale with $250,000 of non-dischargeable increasing student loan debt versus a prestigious scholarship and additional living stipend from a T-14 law school for one who is uncertain of his specific legal practice area interest". In short, it's a test of one's common sense.


In that formulation I suppose I would agree. Honestly, going to law school at all, even for free, wouldn't be a good decision for someone who had no idea what they would do with their degree. However, I think if OP decides what they want to do, it changes the equation, and in most cases shifts it away from the Darrow considering the potential fields they list. If they decide they want to pursue civil rights work for instance, I'd say go to Yale, for the reasons I listed in my previous post. I don't think OP would be a fool either way, it would come down to personal factors, such as whether they care more about their chances at certain types of jobs or more about financial stability.

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bruinfan10
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:12 pm

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Last edited by bruinfan10 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby rpupkin » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:27 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:I have a question about these supposed "unicorn jobs." I shot the moon at Michigan and landed a couple clerkships (outside shot at SCOTUS), but short of working for the supremes, copping that 350k bonus (or whatever it's up to this month), and living happily ever after in academia, I'm not really sure how many "unicorn jobs" are realistic even for people in my situation who aren't independently wealthy.

I have an extraordinarily diverse resume, I've won cases in federal court, published a number of heavily cited papers, etc etc, so I have an appreciable shot at most unicorn jobs. And there are some that sound really cool (ACLU, working for a state solicitor general, BigFed, etc etc). But I've run the numbers, and unless you're cool with living in the midwest, or alabama, etc, those "unicorn jobs" typically pay so badly that you have to be comfortable with a pretty barebones lifestyle. Living on an 80k fourth year public interest attorney's salary in CA or NYC might not afford you the standard of living you were hoping for when you went to law school, especially if you want to travel once in a while, start a family, move out of a studio apartment for the first time in your life, etc etc.

If I go to biglaw, on the other hand (even without having landed SCOTUS), assuming I go to a firm that pays a market base salary and DPW scale bonuses, I'm looking at a 75k clerkship bonus, a 50k reg bonus if I hit my hours, and 180k base salary. For one year's work. Sweet jesus. And the next year is a 210k base + 60k reg bonus. I know taking that route destroys my bigfed honors eligibility, makes me look like a sellout to public interest orgs, etc etc, but OP, I'd suggest you consider what you would do in that situation. If the answer is go to biglaw and cop that cash before trying to lateral into a meaningful job later, for god's sake, take the Darrow. Unless you're independently wealthy, in which case wtf why did you start this thread in the first place.

I was going to type something like this but I was too lazy. Yeah, typically 30%+ of YLS students land an Article III clerkship. But where do you think most of those YLS grads go when their clerkships end? Most of them are not saving the world. The vast majority are in big law or a boutique (e.g., Kellogg, Susman, Keker) with big law (or worse) hours.

I haven't voted in the poll. There are legitimate upsides to Yale here, and I wouldn't fault someone for deciding to take the risk. But, yeah, chances are that—two or three years after graduating—OP will end up in roughly the same place out of either school.

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bruinfan10
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:46 pm

rpupkin wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:I have a question about these supposed "unicorn jobs." I shot the moon at Michigan and landed a couple clerkships (outside shot at SCOTUS), but short of working for the supremes, copping that 350k bonus (or whatever it's up to this month), and living happily ever after in academia, I'm not really sure how many "unicorn jobs" are realistic even for people in my situation who aren't independently wealthy.

I have an extraordinarily diverse resume, I've won cases in federal court, published a number of heavily cited papers, etc etc, so I have an appreciable shot at most unicorn jobs. And there are some that sound really cool (ACLU, working for a state solicitor general, BigFed, etc etc). But I've run the numbers, and unless you're cool with living in the midwest, or alabama, etc, those "unicorn jobs" typically pay so badly that you have to be comfortable with a pretty barebones lifestyle. Living on an 80k fourth year public interest attorney's salary in CA or NYC might not afford you the standard of living you were hoping for when you went to law school, especially if you want to travel once in a while, start a family, move out of a studio apartment for the first time in your life, etc etc.

If I go to biglaw, on the other hand (even without having landed SCOTUS), assuming I go to a firm that pays a market base salary and DPW scale bonuses, I'm looking at a 75k clerkship bonus, a 50k reg bonus if I hit my hours, and 180k base salary. For one year's work. Sweet jesus. And the next year is a 210k base + 60k reg bonus. I know taking that route destroys my bigfed honors eligibility, makes me look like a sellout to public interest orgs, etc etc, but OP, I'd suggest you consider what you would do in that situation. If the answer is go to biglaw and cop that cash before trying to lateral into a meaningful job later, for god's sake, take the Darrow. Unless you're independently wealthy, in which case wtf why did you start this thread in the first place.

I was going to type something like this but I was too lazy. Yeah, typically 30%+ of YLS students land an Article III clerkship. But where do you think most of those YLS grads go when their clerkships end? Most of them are not saving the world. The vast majority are in big law or a boutique (e.g., Kellogg, Susman, Keker) with big law (or worse) hours.

I haven't voted in the poll. There are legitimate upsides to Yale here, and I wouldn't fault someone for deciding to take the risk. But, yeah, chances are that—two or three years after graduating—OP will end up in roughly the same place out of either school.

That's the great thing about this profession. No matter how well you do (unless you're literally SCOTUSclerk/top HYS grad going into tenure track academia/that one dude DF linked who started his own plaintiff's firm and made millions within his first ten years of practice), there are really just two paths. Public interest and no money or Biglaw and money. You can mix and match those two options, but that's what the profession gives you to work with.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:20 pm

Or govnt with some money

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby UnicornHunter » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:24 pm

OP, on the off chance you haven't seen this thread yet...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=234714&start=75

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby BiglawAssociate » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:58 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:OP, on the off chance you haven't seen this thread yet...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=234714&start=75


Awesome thread

MONEY TRUMPS ALL. BEING RICH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EVERYTHING ELSE (except health).

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Darrow vs. Yale

Postby UnicornHunter » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:07 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:OP, on the off chance you haven't seen this thread yet...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=234714&start=75


Awesome thread

MONEY TRUMPS ALL. BEING RICH>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EVERYTHING ELSE (except health).


I mean, that wasn't really my take-away, but you do you.




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