Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

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yankees12345!
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Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby yankees12345! » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:36 pm

Just throwing this one out there, looking for any perspective I may not have considered. Strongly leaning towards Texas, as you may have guessed, but curious for people's perspectives. Basically: Is Columbia at sticker ever worth it??

Columbia
Cost of Attendance ($85k per year - wow!) (no merit aid yet, not holding my breath)

Texas
Cost of Attendance (15k per year) (full tuition scholarship, but would still have living expenses, etc)

Financing: Can contribute about 20k from working for a few years after college. Therefore Texas probably leaves me in 25k debt, and Columbia leaves me in 230k debt.

Career Goals: Relatively undecided. Open to a mix of: legal academia, private practice in the plaintiff's bar (consumer class action, wage and hour, discrim, police brutality, anti-trust, etc.), criminal defense, public interest and/or a prominent clerkship if I can snag it. Not really interested in the Big Law hamster wheel as a career path, expect perhaps for a maximum one or two years to pay off initial debt.

Personal Ties: Strong ties to Austin, currently living in New York.

Thanks!

Traynor Brah
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:42 pm

UT. Obviously.

Seems like you should have good options inbetween that might be better for your goals and geographic preferences, but if it's just these two or bust, obviously UT.

JFO1833
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby JFO1833 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:51 pm

If you were only interested in working in New York or if you did not want to leave NYC during law school then that might be a reason to pick Columbia.

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Hand
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby Hand » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:08 pm

JFO1833 wrote:If you were only interested in working in New York or if you did not want to leave NYC during law school then that might be a reason to pick Columbia.


bolded does not strike me as a good reason to take out six-figure debt TBH (ETA unless you have something special going on like a spouse who can't move or a sick parent etc)

UT seems the obvious answer here, with the $$ and the ties to Austin

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:10 pm

UT and it's not close

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Nekrowizard
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Post removed.

Postby Nekrowizard » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:11 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by Nekrowizard on Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ILoveYou
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby ILoveYou » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:13 pm

Yeah, no way Columbia is worth it at that price, especially if you don't want biglaw.

UT hands down.

Username123
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby Username123 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:14 pm

UT without a question. Other than CLS, do you have other T14 offers worth considering?

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:18 pm

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see the OP saying that they wanted to live and work in TX long term. So in the absence of that I guess I vote neither, retake?

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rpupkin
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:23 pm

BigZuck wrote:Maybe I missed it but I didn't see the OP saying that they wanted to live and work in TX long term. So in the absence of that I guess I vote neither, retake?

I was going to post the exact same thing.

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BasilHallward
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby BasilHallward » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:29 pm

Do you have other options?

RustyRyan
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby RustyRyan » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:34 pm

There is no reason that this should be the decision you are making. With those options, you should at least have an acceptance at somewhere like Cornell/NU/Duke/Michigan with some money.

From what you are telling us, one of those options sounds like it would make the most sense. If you don't have one, or didn't apply or something, wait a cycle and apply to more of the T14.

If we are really picking between these two, based on your statements UT all the way.

kaiser
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby kaiser » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:39 pm

Texas without a doubt. Not even a question.

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twenty 8
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby twenty 8 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:40 pm

As a full rider I can tell you that there is a warm glowy feeling about putting your entire paycheck into your purse without having to split it. I work with T14ers who resent having to carve out 2k-3k every month. While that amount might sound insignificant weighed against a six figure income….it’s not! Take your free ride!

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:43 pm

In b4 the OP comes back and says they would like to end up in DC or Seattle after law school

yankees12345!
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby yankees12345! » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:46 pm

Thanks for all the responses! Yep, I have a few other T14 options (Duke, Berkeley, GT, Cornell, NYU), but they would still leave me with well over 100K in debt.

I'm not committed to living in Texas long term, though I could see potentially staying in Austin. That's really the one factor that raises any question -- the national mobility of a degree from Columbia.

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Hand
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby Hand » Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:48 pm

tks51 wrote:Thanks for all the responses! Yep, I have a few other T14 options (Duke, Berkeley, GT, Cornell, NYU), but they would still leave me with well over 100K in debt.

I'm not committed to living in Texas long term, though I could see potentially staying in Austin. That's really the one factor that raises any question -- the national mobility of a degree from Columbia.


there is a world of difference between 100k and 230k of debt, and all T14s provide a decent amount of national mobility

RustyRyan
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby RustyRyan » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:00 pm

tks51 wrote:Thanks for all the responses! Yep, I have a few other T14 options (Duke, Berkeley, GT, Cornell, NYU), but they would still leave me with well over 100K in debt.

I'm not committed to living in Texas long term, though I could see potentially staying in Austin. That's really the one factor that raises any question -- the national mobility of a degree from Columbia.


There is no reason to take sticker at Columbia for national mobility, other T14 do just fine. And only 1-2 years of biglaw max is wildly unrealistic at sticker, but not as unreasonable with a half-tuition(ish) scholarship from the lower T14.

Can you lay out your LSAT/GPA and your $ offers at the other schools? This reasoning just seems off with the information you're giving.

ETA: Sort of scooped by Hand.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:05 pm

Austin big law? Might as well pretend that doesn't exist, the chances are too remote

More modest stuff in Austin? Maybe, but it'll still be competitive. Everyone wants to stay in Austin.

I wouldn't go to UT with a goal of Austin unless you are Austin or bust (because you have a spouse/family there, things like that). I think if you go to UT you have to be open to places that actually have jobs, like Houston or Dallas

I also wouldn't go to UT if you think you would like to end up somewhere outside of TX

yankees12345!
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby yankees12345! » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:19 pm

Is there such a big difference in national mobility between Texas (#15) and Georgetown (#14) or Cornell (#13)? I'm looking at pretty middling offers from both compared to Texas. Realistically, it would be over $150k in debt to break the top 14.

I got a named scholarship at Texas plus the regular merit aid, which made their offer much more competitive than it would have been otherwise. I think that's throwing some people.

I'll keep negotiating with GT and Cornell and try to squeeze more out of them. That seems like the best next step.

03152016
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:34 pm

sorry op, but columbia at sticker is financially a very poor decision

my vote is for texas, and it's not close

03152016
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:38 pm

o, didn't see you had t14 offers with $$ on the table

you should probably edit your op with figures for those schools so you can get better feedback

and post lsat/gpa. we have no way of telling you whether you're getting stiffed with your offers or not b/c you didn't provide all the sticky information

03152016
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:49 pm

also i forgot to mention, you said columbia with $20k out of pocket leaves you $230k in debt
unless i'm missing something, that's way off
columbia with $20k out of pocket leaves you in the $300k range at repayment
you may have not factored in origination fees, interest, standard deferment period, average cost of living/tuition and fee inflation, etc

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:18 pm

tks51 wrote:Is there such a big difference in national mobility between Texas (#15) and Georgetown (#14) or Cornell (#13)? I'm looking at pretty middling offers from both compared to Texas. Realistically, it would be over $150k in debt to break the top 14.

I got a named scholarship at Texas plus the regular merit aid, which made their offer much more competitive than it would have been otherwise. I think that's throwing some people.

I'll keep negotiating with GT and Cornell and try to squeeze more out of them. That seems like the best next step.

What do you mean by national mobility?

You can take the bar in any state as long as you go to any ABA accredited law school. No one is going to stop you. So Cooley is as mobile a degree as Harvard.

Are you asking if employers around the country would rather have a GULC grad over a UT grad? Totally depends on the employer. I think the answer to that question will probably range from they don't care (some random small firm in BFE Montana that just LOVES them some Montana grads more than anything) to oh yeah, of course they care (probably the vast majority of big law firms). UT grads are probably preferred over GULC at some employers in TX.

But yeah, not sure what you meant by that. I think it's undeniable that GULC would be a better school to have on your resume in most situations, but as with everything law school related, "It depends."

RustyRyan
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Re: Columbia (sticker) v. Texas (full ride)

Postby RustyRyan » Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:06 pm

tks51 wrote:I got a named scholarship at Texas plus the regular merit aid, which made their offer much more competitive than it would have been otherwise. I think that's throwing some people.

I'll keep negotiating with GT and Cornell and try to squeeze more out of them. That seems like the best next step.


The phrasing of this sounds like you are implying your $ at UT punches above your statistical weight.

So now I REALLY want to know your GPA/LSAT, because it sounds like either you have a unexpected opportunity at UT, or you badly need a retake for your goals.




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