Berk vs UVA vs Michigan

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which one?

Berkeley ($219k CoA/$75k scholly/*is it in-state tuition after 1L?)
6
38%
UVA ($194k CoA/$75k scholly)
3
19%
Michigan ($179k CoA/$75k scholly/*in-state tuition)
7
44%
 
Total votes: 16

CanadianWolf
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:29 pm

Michigan's in-state tuition is only about a 5.5% discount from the non-resident rate so it's not a big factor.

Big difference in employment numbers between the two schools.

If you prefer Michigan & Michigan increases their scholarship offer, then you have a better contest. But the placement numbers still remain markedly different.

Hopefully, Harvard will accept you & offer significant financial aid.

Communicate with Berkeley & tell them about your Virginia deadline scholarship offer.

breadcarp
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby breadcarp » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:43 pm

MidwestTho wrote: Having not heard about aid from Berkeley yet, would I have to withdraw from there as well if that's the case and I do deposit? I was waiting for Berkeley to offer something first before I submitted a match request for Michigan's offer.

And if I go that route, would Berkeley with the same $75k (or perhaps more) then be a better move, or is it still UVA is the TCR if UVA&Mich are equal offers or Mich if they offer more $ than UVA? Tbf I wouldn't have applied to Berk if I wasn't attracted to the school and interested in the area, I just couldn't afford the flight out there without knowing aid.


FYI I called berkeley's finaid office last week and was told that 90% of merit aid was already given out. Someone else on the forums mentioned the same, also by phone call. Also, a ton of people who have done matching scholarships are now on hold (myself included), so you may want to get on that ball sooner than later.

Good luck to you.

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:00 pm

breadcarp wrote:
MidwestTho wrote: Having not heard about aid from Berkeley yet, would I have to withdraw from there as well if that's the case and I do deposit? I was waiting for Berkeley to offer something first before I submitted a match request for Michigan's offer.

And if I go that route, would Berkeley with the same $75k (or perhaps more) then be a better move, or is it still UVA is the TCR if UVA&Mich are equal offers or Mich if they offer more $ than UVA? Tbf I wouldn't have applied to Berk if I wasn't attracted to the school and interested in the area, I just couldn't afford the flight out there without knowing aid.


FYI I called berkeley's finaid office last week and was told that 90% of merit aid was already given out. Someone else on the forums mentioned the same, also by phone call. Also, a ton of people who have done matching scholarships are now on hold (myself included), so you may want to get on that ball sooner than later.

Good luck to you.


I've already been waiting a few weeks (since initial contact/inquiry) haven't gotten a response yet but if that's the case you're right

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:02 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Michigan's in-state tuition is only about a 5.5% discount from the non-resident rate so it's not a big factor.

Big difference in employment numbers between the two schools.

If you prefer Michigan & Michigan increases their scholarship offer, then you have a better contest. But the placement numbers still remain markedly different.

Hopefully, Harvard will accept you & offer significant financial aid.

Communicate with Berkeley & tell them about your Virginia deadline scholarship offer.


Fair enough. Would Berk with aid make them competitive or is Virginia still TCR at that point?

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Rigo
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Rigo » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:19 pm

You should deposit at UVA tomorrow unless you commit to retaking and reapplying tonight.

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:38 am

Bump for CoA/any more advice:

Berkeley ~$299,438 sticker (awaiting fin aid) // ~$209,179 if they match Michigan's $75k
UVA ~$193,778 ($75k scholly)
Michigan ~$178,984 ($75k scholly)

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bretby
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby bretby » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:55 am

I have a question related to Midwest's dilemma. If he has significant financial need (and thus would get a good amount of aid if he got into Harvard), then why are his scholarships to the other schools (relatively) small? Are those scholarships merit-based or are they need-based? And if they're need-based, why would we assume Harvard's would be any bigger? From my experience with HLS, they are pretty stingy/conservative when it comes to calculating need.

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:57 pm

Can't justify Berk at sticker but if they were to match Michigan's aid/exceed then that's actually what I'm leaning toward.

If not, then I'm leaning toward Michigan but need them to increase their offer since as CWolf noted, it wasn't necessarily a fair offer to begin with as they should have come right out and exceed UVA since UVA has the better employment #'s. If they don't increase then I'm going to go with UVA. Either way I need to visit, just waiting on Berkeley aid before I spend $ on a flight out there.

the_scoundrel
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby the_scoundrel » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:24 pm

UVA inflates their employment stats via massive amounts of school-funded jobs, which, of course, end. I think it's the only T14 school to have double digits in this category. They know they can spend money there to pump their employment stats in the short-term and maintain their spot on the USNWR. Take these away from both UMich and UVA, UMich comes out on top by a few percentage points. Just go to UVA's Law School Transparency and dig into the details, especially if that is (as far as I can tell) the only thing pushing you to take on that 20k COA differential.
Last edited by the_scoundrel on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

the_scoundrel
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby the_scoundrel » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:27 pm

UVA - 95.6% 'score' - 15.9% school funded = 79.9%
UMich - 82% 'score' - 0.8 % school funded (yes, that's correct) = 81.2%

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Rigo
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:33 pm

the_scoundrel wrote:UVA - 95.6% 'score' - 15.9% school funded = 79.9%
UMich - 82% 'score' - 0.8 % school funded (yes, that's correct) = 81.2%

Can you post the BL+FC scores for us too? Tyia.

BigZuck
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:33 pm

the_scoundrel wrote:UVA - 95.6% 'score' - 15.9% school funded = 79.9%
UMich - 82% 'score' - 0.8 % school funded (yes, that's correct) = 81.2%

If you go to either school and "just" become a lawyer then you've probably failed (unless you wanted that outcome or someone else paid for it or something I guess)

Big law/fed clerk is a much better metric IMO, with the usual caveats for PI/Gov self-selection, etc.

In a vacuum I'd take UVA over Michigan. But the OP isn't operating in a vacuum. I think Michigan is a much better choice than UVA here, and it's not particularly close.

the_scoundrel
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby the_scoundrel » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:39 pm

UVA:
Federal Clerkship Rate: 12.9%
Large Firm Score: 50%

UMich:
Fed Clerkship: 7.8%
Large Firm: 49.4%

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/

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Winston1984
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:47 pm

the_scoundrel wrote:UVA:
Federal Clerkship Rate: 12.9%
Large Firm Score: 50%

UMich:
Fed Clerkship: 7.8%
Large Firm: 49.4%

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/

The difference is much more stark with the newest data. Something like 67% and 53% I think?

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Rigo
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:50 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
the_scoundrel wrote:UVA:
Federal Clerkship Rate: 12.9%
Large Firm Score: 50%
UMich:
Fed Clerkship: 7.8%
Large Firm: 49.4%
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/

The difference is much more stark with the newest data. Something like 67% and 53% I think?

Yeah Michigan has turd placement, but the bias of this poster is comical.

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Rigo
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:01 pm

However, since OP is from Michigan and wants to run for office one day (presumably in his home state where his ties are), Michigan would make sense here.
If he can swing it, UVA should double deposit though and negotiate more.

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:06 pm

BigZuck wrote:
the_scoundrel wrote:UVA - 95.6% 'score' - 15.9% school funded = 79.9%
UMich - 82% 'score' - 0.8 % school funded (yes, that's correct) = 81.2%

If you go to either school and "just" become a lawyer then you've probably failed (unless you wanted that outcome or someone else paid for it or something I guess)

Big law/fed clerk is a much better metric IMO, with the usual caveats for PI/Gov self-selection, etc.

In a vacuum I'd take UVA over Michigan. But the OP isn't operating in a vacuum. I think Michigan is a much better choice than UVA here, and it's not particularly close.


Thank you for the reply! What makes you say that Zuck?

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:08 pm

Rigo wrote:However, since OP is from Michigan and wants to run for office one day (presumably in his home state where his ties are), Michigan would make sense here.
If he can swing it, UVA should double deposit though and negotiate more.


Yeah I don't want to practice law in Michigan right after graduation, no matter where I go for school I want to go elsewhere and come back eventually. But yes, at least as of now I'm planning on running in Michigan since that's my home state/where I do have the most ties (high school, undergrad, lived here >10 years already, etc.)

BigZuck
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:11 pm

MidwestTho wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
the_scoundrel wrote:UVA - 95.6% 'score' - 15.9% school funded = 79.9%
UMich - 82% 'score' - 0.8 % school funded (yes, that's correct) = 81.2%

If you go to either school and "just" become a lawyer then you've probably failed (unless you wanted that outcome or someone else paid for it or something I guess)

Big law/fed clerk is a much better metric IMO, with the usual caveats for PI/Gov self-selection, etc.

In a vacuum I'd take UVA over Michigan. But the OP isn't operating in a vacuum. I think Michigan is a much better choice than UVA here, and it's not particularly close.


Thank you for the reply! What makes you say that Zuck?

The reasons Rigo said.

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:14 pm

BigZuck wrote:
MidwestTho wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
the_scoundrel wrote:UVA - 95.6% 'score' - 15.9% school funded = 79.9%
UMich - 82% 'score' - 0.8 % school funded (yes, that's correct) = 81.2%

If you go to either school and "just" become a lawyer then you've probably failed (unless you wanted that outcome or someone else paid for it or something I guess)

Big law/fed clerk is a much better metric IMO, with the usual caveats for PI/Gov self-selection, etc.

In a vacuum I'd take UVA over Michigan. But the OP isn't operating in a vacuum. I think Michigan is a much better choice than UVA here, and it's not particularly close.


Thank you for the reply! What makes you say that Zuck?

The reasons Rigo said.


So you'd agree with my plan, if Berkeley matches I'll visit and see how the fit is since program/PI considerations aside, I would prefer living in the Bay Area over living in Charlottesville or Ann Arbor for the next 3 years. But without a match I can't justify that CoA.

In the mean time, visit Mich and see how I like it/how the fit is and also see if they'll increase aid. If they do increase or if the fit is there, then take it over UVA?

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Rigo
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:16 pm

Where are you at in terms of retaking and reapplying if Harvard doesn't come through?

BigZuck
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:19 pm

I mean, to be perfectly honest I'm always skeptical about plans to be a politician and I think it's not wise to go to law school when you've only taken the lsat once and scored in the 150s.

That said, given how you've framed the situation, Michigan is the only thing that makes sense to me here. No other schools make sense unless the cost disparity was massive IMO

MidwestTho
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby MidwestTho » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:46 pm

Rigo wrote:Where are you at in terms of retaking and reapplying if Harvard doesn't come through?


If I can't negotiate more scholarship $ from the schools that I've been admitted to and I really am faced with this kind of debt, knowing a higher score would basically cut it in half or eliminate it....higher odds of retaking and reapplying than I would have said yesterday.

Really hoping for $//Harvard to come through so the decision is basically made for me. I want to matriculate this fall from the bottom of my heart, I'm sick of waiting and I don't want to retake the LSAT. But I also don't want to make a poor decision.


BigZuck wrote:I mean, to be perfectly honest I'm always skeptical about plans to be a politician and I think it's not wise to go to law school when you've only taken the lsat once and scored in the 150s.

That said, given how you've framed the situation, Michigan is the only thing that makes sense to me here. No other schools make sense unless the cost disparity was massive IMO


Fair enough, thank you!

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:53 pm

Retake. You could have a great cycle next year with a higher lsat.

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Rigo
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Re: Berk vs UVA vs Michigan vs Georgetown (vs others)

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:58 pm

OhBoyOhBortles wrote:Retake. You could have a great cycle next year with a higher lsat.

Unless H comes through this time, I would definitely retake. You seem like you have a good head on your shoulders so not being able to break 160 seems more like a lack of effort on your part than lack of potential.




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