HLS v. YLS

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What's the better choice?

HLS ($$)
24
43%
YLS
32
57%
 
Total votes: 56

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psychmusic
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HLS v. YLS

Postby psychmusic » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:20 pm

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Last edited by psychmusic on Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:38 pm

merit aid?

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psychmusic
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby psychmusic » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:46 pm

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Last edited by psychmusic on Fri May 01, 2015 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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AreJay711
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:53 pm

Go to the school you like more.

3 years of chilling out instead of being grade conscious would be worth $55k to me. It's not like you won't be able to get a job that pays off $115k. Harvard would be $55k in your pocket though.

omegaweapon
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby omegaweapon » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:03 pm

When would you know the exact amount of debt at Harvard? You might be able to get an extension on their deposit deadlines if you explain that you're needing to finalize things with an outside scholarship.

0L advice follows:

I think that Yale is worth 55k more if you want academia pretty strongly, but 115k is iffy. Would you consider biglaw as an entree to gov? If that's likely at all, the money is way more important.

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leslieknope
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby leslieknope » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:55 pm

0L here, but I think both Yale and Harvard's LRAPs cover clerkships (though it's restricted coverage at H), gov (at least for the first three until your raises start kicking in) and academia, so the difference might end up kind of negligible. Talk to the people at each school's LRAP office and ask them to run the numbers for you on potential jobs and see?

That said, Harvard for free or COL is basically a dream. 55k-115k is a lot of money if you end up not going the LRAP route, and I'm not sure you'd be losing out on opportunities to an extent that the difference is justified. I don't know, it's tough. You can't really go wrong.

omegaweapon
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby omegaweapon » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:01 pm

leslieknope wrote:0L here, but I think both Yale and Harvard's LRAPs cover clerkships (though it's restricted coverage at H), gov (at least for the first three until your raises start kicking in) and academia, so the difference might end up kind of negligibl.. Talk to the people at each school's LRAP office and ask them to run the numbers for you on potential jobs and see?

That said, Harvard for free or COL is basically the dream and 55k-115k is a lot of money if you end up not going the LRAP route, and I'm not sure you'd be losing out on opportunities to an extent that the difference is justified. I don't know, it's tough. You can't really go wrong.


At both Y and H they cover clerkships if you go into something covered afterwards, and don't if you go to biglaw. Both of them basically give you a loan for the clerkship year that's expected to be paid back with your bonus if you go to a big firm and is forgiven if you don't.

It's also worth noting that H covers PhDs and Y doesn't, which might be relevant depending on how set on academia you are, although I think the PhD is probably less needed/helpful out of Y.

CanadianWolf
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:19 pm

Yale in light of your desire for clerkship or academia in addition to government. Costs are very reasonable & you'll always wonder "what if" if you don't go. Also, I suspect that it's easier to transfer from Yale to Harvard than vice-versa.

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bearsfan23
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby bearsfan23 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Unless you actually explain the cost difference, I refuse to believe you're not trolling.

You're telling me you have an outside merit scholarship that applies to HLS but not YLS?

I'm calling BS on that

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psychmusic
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby psychmusic » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:46 pm

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Last edited by psychmusic on Fri May 01, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bearsfan23
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby bearsfan23 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:48 pm

psychmusic wrote:
bearsfan23 wrote:Unless you actually explain the cost difference, I refuse to believe you're not trolling.

You're telling me you have an outside merit scholarship that applies to HLS but not YLS?

I'm calling BS on that


As I mentioned, I am happy to explain further via PM. I'd also be playing a pretty long game if I spent more than a year being relatively active on the site and creating a plausible backstory just to troll in such a pointless and specific way.


That's fair, its just an odd situation I guess.

I'd definitely do Yale if I were in your shoes, honestly having a stress free 1L year is probably worth 50K alone. But both are great options obviously

omegaweapon
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby omegaweapon » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:25 pm

bearsfan23 wrote:
psychmusic wrote:
bearsfan23 wrote:Unless you actually explain the cost difference, I refuse to believe you're not trolling.

You're telling me you have an outside merit scholarship that applies to HLS but not YLS?

I'm calling BS on that


As I mentioned, I am happy to explain further via PM. I'd also be playing a pretty long game if I spent more than a year being relatively active on the site and creating a plausible backstory just to troll in such a pointless and specific way.


That's fair, its just an odd situation I guess.

I'd definitely do Yale if I were in your shoes, honestly having a stress free 1L year is probably worth 50K alone. But both are great options obviously


Not going to guess at OP, but there are lots of situations where there might be a difference. There are Massachusetts native things for Harvard, and Connecticut things for Connecticut people for example. Both Harvard and Yale have lists of supplemental stuff on their websites.

IIRC HLS is also more generous with Yellow Ribbon.
Last edited by omegaweapon on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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quiver
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby quiver » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:26 pm

Is there a point in the future where you'll know the specific debt for HLS or do you have to decide with just this 0-60k range? if the former, just wait until you get real numbers. Clearly you have an idea of what to do in that scenario:
psychmusic wrote:My real problem is that I might take YLS at a $55k cost difference, but I'd definitely go HLS on the upper end ($115k), so I'd appreciate some input.


If the HLS debt will be perpetually uncertain, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'd probably take YLS with your goals. Both schools are a steal at their respective prices.

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psychmusic
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby psychmusic » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:43 pm

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Last edited by psychmusic on Fri May 01, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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quiver
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby quiver » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:32 pm

psychmusic wrote:
quiver wrote:Is there a point in the future where you'll know the specific debt for HLS or do you have to decide with just this 0-60k range? if the former, just wait until you get real numbers. Clearly you have an idea of what to do in that scenario:
psychmusic wrote:My real problem is that I might take YLS at a $55k cost difference, but I'd definitely go HLS on the upper end ($115k), so I'd appreciate some input.


If the HLS debt will be perpetually uncertain, then I'm not sure what to tell you. I'd probably take YLS with your goals. Both schools are a steal at their respective prices.


It'll be a year to year deal so I won't know until I've been enrolled unfortunately.
Ok then I say Yale. Congrats!

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psychmusic
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby psychmusic » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:12 pm

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Last edited by psychmusic on Fri May 01, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hand
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby Hand » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:16 pm

What would sway me is that even in the worst case scenario, at Harvard you'd end up with an amount of debt you can pay off in 10 yrs basically no matter what job you end up having, whereas if you go to Yale, you'll either need (1) work in big law, (2) rely on whatever they call LRAP at Yale, or (3) find a sugarmomma/daddy, no matter what. Sure, Yale gives you a bit of an edge for all the things you want to be doing upon graduation, but whether that edge is worth it - well, it wouldn't be for me.

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rpupkin
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby rpupkin » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:20 pm

psychmusic wrote:Thanks for all of the input everyone. I know that either decision is fairly defensible, and I'm still leaning Yale, it's just hard to know how well I'll stomach all that debt in a few years.

Food for thought: I estimate that at least half of the YLS class goes in thinking "potentially academia," and yet only about 10% end up actually gunning for it. If your "potentially academia" goals are fairly vague, I'd hesitate before taking on $100K of additional debt for what might end up being no reason at all.

Indifference
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby Indifference » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:44 pm

Don't think the differences are worth the extra debt. HLS from me.

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psychmusic
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby psychmusic » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:01 pm

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Last edited by psychmusic on Fri May 01, 2015 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:29 pm

psychmusic wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
psychmusic wrote:Thanks for all of the input everyone. I know that either decision is fairly defensible, and I'm still leaning Yale, it's just hard to know how well I'll stomach all that debt in a few years.

Food for thought: I estimate that at least half of the YLS class goes in thinking "potentially academia," and yet only about 10% end up actually gunning for it. If your "potentially academia" goals are fairly vague, I'd hesitate before taking on $100K of additional debt for what might end up being no reason at all.


I agree that it's sort of ridiculous to go into law school planning on academia. It's like using scratch tickets as a long-term investment strategy.

I know this is pretty contrary to conventional wisdom, but I am especially drawn to YLS because I think I'd enjoy actually going to school there more. Obviously three years of marginally more pleasant schooling isn't worth $115k and 10 years in extra debt, but combined with the better outcomes, it might be. I'm still not sure.


Enjoy in what sense? Neither location is pleasant, but cambridge is at least more tolerable & cultural IME

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foamborn
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby foamborn » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:46 pm

psychmusic wrote:I agree that it's sort of ridiculous to go into law school planning on academia. It's like using scratch tickets as a long-term investment strategy.

I know this is pretty contrary to conventional wisdom, but I am especially drawn to YLS because I think I'd enjoy actually going to school there more. Obviously three years of marginally more pleasant schooling isn't worth $115k and 10 years in extra debt, but combined with the better outcomes, it might be. I'm still not sure.


three years of marginally more pleasant schooling could be worth it if that difference straddles the divide between unpleasant and pleasant.

eta: and there are workmanlike ways to take up the academia goal; it doesn't have to just be some dream.

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bretby
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby bretby » Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:10 pm

How are people possibly advocating Yale here? I truly don't understand it. Harvard is the clear choice. Like someone above said, Harvard for free, or close to free, is a dream come true.

omegaweapon
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby omegaweapon » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:37 pm

bretby wrote:How are people possibly advocating Yale here? I truly don't understand it. Harvard is the clear choice. Like someone above said, Harvard for free, or close to free, is a dream come true.


Yale is around three times as good for academia. The problem is that those still aren't super great odds, so it comes to how much a 10-20% chance is worth VS 3-5%? I'd say not 115k for damn sure. 60k is a lot closer though, especially with a better chance to feed straight into gov and skip biglaw.

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RunnerRunner
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Re: HLS v. YLS

Postby RunnerRunner » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:10 am

omegaweapon wrote:
bretby wrote:How are people possibly advocating Yale here? I truly don't understand it. Harvard is the clear choice. Like someone above said, Harvard for free, or close to free, is a dream come true.


Yale is around three times as good for academia. The problem is that those still aren't super great odds, so it comes to how much a 10-20% chance is worth VS 3-5%? I'd say not 115k for damn sure. 60k is a lot closer though, especially with a better chance to feed straight into gov and skip biglaw.


Agree with this ^^^ Also I think it's important to remember that no matter what OP does, it isn't as if either choice is going to lead them down a path to homelessness. They'll be fine either way. I actually don't understand when people discount the academic advantage by pointing out that academia is a long shot. To me that is more reason to go with Yale in this situation: that way even if you don't get it, at least you'll never have to wonder if your school choice made you miss out on your dream job.




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