Georgetown ($$$) vs. Duke ($$) Forum

[motoman92]

The schools you are considering
Duke and Georgetown

The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each.
Duke COA = $125,760
Georgetown COA = $88,100

How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
100% loans

Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
From the south, but I would love to work in NYC after school. DC would be great as well, but I have a preference for New York.

Have significant ties to central FL (think Tampa area), and moderate ties to Atlanta. Have 0 interest in working in the South after law school, but could see myself moving back to FL later in my career to settle down / start a family.

Your general career goals
Generic NYC Biglaw. I don't know what practice area, but my general interests lie in business law. Again, DC would be great too. Eventually want to transition to in-house or BigFed.

Your LSAT/GPA numbers
3.97 and 164, 168, 168

Preferences
Personally, I prefer Georgetown simply because of the discounted COA. The most important issue for me is cost vs. employment prospects. Duke impressed me with their stats this year, and Gtown lagged far behind. But I'm debt averse, so Gtown is attractive, though Duke at $125K is a great deal. As I'll be targeting NYC biglaw, is Duke worth $37K more than Gtown? Also interested in how these schools will affect my employability long term. I'm really struggling here, and I would appreciate some other opinions.

[TLSModBot]

GULC student here. I think Duke is worth the difference for BigLaw career purposes. GULC does not have additional pull in DC above Duke for BigLaw, and Duke performs significantly better such that I think you're reducing employment risk at OCI well enough to justify the 37K price tag.

Also cost of living will be way cheaper at Duke, so that mitigates things a little.

[RunnerRunner]

As I'll be targeting NYC biglaw, is Duke worth $37K more than Gtown? Also interested in how these schools will affect my employability long term. I'm really struggling here, and I would appreciate some other opinions.

Between these options I would take Duke in a heartbeat. They destroy Georgetown when it comes to placing into NYC Biglaw. There is a very significant chance you don't get NYC Biglaw coming out of Georgetown, and then that 37K you saved would disappear very quickly. You're going to spend a decent amount of money either way (though neither option is horrifically expensive by law school standards), I say go with the option that gives you a much higher chance of being able to pay that money back quickly.

[BigZuck]

If it were me, I would choose Duke, but a lot of that would be personal reasons/so I didn't have to live in DC

With a preference for GULC and an almost 40K difference I think you would be justified choosing GULC if you wanted to. I can't imagine NYC big law cutoffs being that drastically different, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[rpupkin]

If it were me, I would choose Duke, but a lot of that would be personal reasons/so I didn't have to live in DC

With a preference for GULC and an almost 40K difference I think you would be justified choosing GULC if you wanted to. I can't imagine NYC big law cutoffs being that drastically different, but I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

I'm with BigZuck here. Overall, I think folks are undervaluing GULC (and overvaluing Duke) in this thread.

[TLSModBot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... d=14086468

Compiled data on employment outcomes of the schools.

For BigLaw + Fed Clerkships: GULC = 48%, Duke = 70%

GULC can place into NYC BigLaw just fine if you get the grades, but Duke is seriously outperforming GULC enough to make the cost differential worth it in my mind.

Zuck's onto something with the personal reasons considerations though, OP - whatever you value employment risk, where you want to live, etc., there's enough wiggle room here that it's not a clear and away there-can-be-only-one answer here.

[Tiago Splitter]

It doesn't sound like OP has a preference for GULC for any reason other than the lower cost. I'd definitely take Duke.

[motoman92]

there's enough wiggle room here that it's not a clear and away there-can-be-only-one answer here.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I think I should add: Gtown is my personal preference, but not by an overwhelming margin. There are things I like about both schools. DC is great, loved Gtown when I visited. I could bring my motorcycle to Duke, my (large) dog, a car etc. I also like the smaller class size. Personally, I don't think these soft factors should play major role in my decision, but I still consider QOL to a moderate extend.

the only thing preventing me from pulling the trigger on Gtown are their latest employment numbers, which scare me tbh. I would have liked to have seen greater improvement from 2013.

[Glasseyes]

People like to assign this argument to GULC apologists, but it's worth considering: don't forget that GULC has more of a PI focus than a lot of the lower T14 (like, Cornell and Northwestern for sure, probably Duke and Michigan as well). This is significant because a good chunk of the class doesn't even bother with OCI. I forget the newest numbers, but we usually place at least a quarter of the class into solid PI jobs. So saying "GULC places 48% or whatever into biglaw + fedclerk" doesn't accurately reflect the percentage of the class that is actually gunning for biglaw. What it does mean is that the odds should be slightly better than they look, but they're still basically unknowable. Do with that what you will. (Also worth noting you can absolutely haggle with GULC for more money if you haven't already; haggle hard and haggle often, including post deposit.)

Duke is still probably the safer choice for NY biglaw if that's your main goal. If the price difference isn't that much, I'd probably do Duke if I were in your shoes (with your goals). That said, living in DC vs living in Durham is an entirely different animal, and you probably know which appeals to you more, or if that even matters. Good luck out there.

[CanadianWolf]

Duke is the safer option if you're targeting NYC biglaw; but Georgetown is $37,000 less costly & may be willing to offer even more financial incentives plus you get DC internships/externship opportunities at your doorstep.

If still undecided, then ask both schools for more money & see what develops.

[quiver]

How much of GULC's biglaw numbers are due to students targeting DC? Obviously DC is a brutal market, so that would considerably skew the stats. How much of a disadvantage is OP really at if s/he goes to GULC and bids 75% NYC biglaw and 25% DC biglaw? I feel like that disconnect may justify a 40k savings.

[Tiago Splitter]

How much of GULC's biglaw numbers are due to students targeting DC? Obviously DC is a brutal market, so that would considerably skew the stats. How much of a disadvantage is OP really at if s/he goes to GULC and bids 75% NYC biglaw and 25% DC biglaw? I feel like that disconnect may justify a 40k savings.

Whatever the difference is it surely applies to Duke as well.

[quiver]

How much of GULC's biglaw numbers are due to students targeting DC? Obviously DC is a brutal market, so that would considerably skew the stats. How much of a disadvantage is OP really at if s/he goes to GULC and bids 75% NYC biglaw and 25% DC biglaw? I feel like that disconnect may justify a 40k savings.

Whatever the difference is it surely applies to Duke as well.

You think Duke students target DC biglaw at the same rate as GULC students? I'm not so sure.

GULC: Class of 2013 - 144 (about 24%) employed in NY and 238 (about 40%) employed in DC [these percentages assume a GULC class of 600.]
Duke: Class of 2013 - 30.2% employed in the Northeast (ME, NH, VT, MA, CT, RI, NY, NJ, PA, DE) and 17.3% in the mid-atlantic (DC, VA, MD, WV)

It looks like GULC students target DC at a higher rate than Duke students. Any GULC/Duke students want to weigh in? OP: is it possible to ask the career services office at each school about specific stats for those targeting NY biglaw? I'm not sure if they disclose this info, but it might be worth a shot.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Dook worth it for the security imo

[BiglawAssociate]

I might do Georgetown and go straight to big fed (which is possible with connections/summer internships). Why do biglaw if you don't have to?

[TLSModBot]

GULC'er here. There is DC targeting but I've never understood how that was supposed to affect hiring numbers. No one seriously just bids DC if they don't have the grades, targets no other market, fails and then just accepts their fate and goes into the vale. People generally bid as intelligently and strategically as any other school - there are occasional idiots but not so many as to skew the numbers.

The PI self-selection thing is... questionable. Some definitely want that but have scholarships and funding such that the choice isn't a difficult one to make. Going by our OCI bid statistics, the vast majority play OCI.

I love GULC just fine but I know we are not anywhere near Duke.

[Mack.Hambleton]

I might do Georgetown and go straight to big fed (which is possible with connections/summer internships). Why do biglaw if you don't have to?

Sounds like a good way to end up jobless

[Rigo]

Duke.

[motoman92]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I hate to cut this thread short, but I told gtown if they have me $x more aid, I would commit, and I recieved $x this morning. So I have committed to Gtown, and I should graduate with ~$65k in debt.

[Rigo]

Good for you & good luck.

[Hand]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

I hate to cut this thread short, but I told gtown if they have me $x more aid, I would commit, and I recieved $x this morning. So I have committed to Gtown, and I should graduate with ~$65k in debt.

good job on getting those $$$; see you there

[TLSModBot]

Good luck - See you in the fall.

[Rigo]

And the largest GULC class ever thanks to TLS hype keeps on growing.

[Gray]

.

[Rigo]

And the largest GULC class ever thanks to TLS hype keeps on growing.

I'm just glad they're being less stingy this year (anecdotally anyway). That probably has more to do with it than hype.

WUSTL's generosity is the main factor for people going, but it also got a lot of hype on TLS.
Don't sell your PR skills short, Gray.