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Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:27 am

woops ur right i got 2011 wrong, so 13% instead of 15%, still, 13% blfc placement difference is substantial especially considering UVA has been having to fund ~14.5% of its graduates with school funded jobs throught this time as well (might have to check that number too)

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:04 am

your first claim in this thread was that there was a 70-50 spread
apparently one year data was good enough for you then
i pointed out that you can't round down 52.44% to 50%
you never responded

next you argued based on nlj250 numbers (instead of bl/fc)
uva has had historically high fc numbers, which depress bl
of course, i called you out on this. you said you had posted the aba numbers earlier, which i proved you had not
you never responded

your next claim was that penn has self-selection out of biglaw
why? jd/mbas (same argument people make for nu)
except it's not like nu. i showed that only 9 students were in jd advantage jobs. 10 total in the business category.
you never responded

up next was that uva's lower bl/fc didn't have to do with self-selection (my position is that it has some non-negligible effect, but doesn't explain the whole difference)
i pointed out that by looking on lt stats pre-lt school funded we can see how uva stacked up to penn for pi in a general sense (pi, of course, being the most obvious reason one selects out of bl/fc)
44/374 for uva, 17/276 for penn. there is evidence of greater self selection out of bl at uva than penn
you never responded

you then claimed that if there is self selection, it was due to school funded
i showed you pi outcomes pre-lt school funded shenanigans by uva
at very best, non-responsive. but with high potential to mislead by obfuscating the point i had made
you never responded

then i went back to your first argument. i found numbers indicating a 10 point spread between uva and penn last year
remember, your first argument was based just on 2014 data
this 10 point spread was half of the 20 point spread you claimed
you never responded

next you really perplexed me. you abandoned the one year stats altogether
now the 15% referred to a four year rolling average difference
right off the bat, i don't know how relevant 2011 numbers are. the gap has significantly narrowed between uva and penn from 2011 until now. perhaps you knew this, perhaps you didn't. regardless, it portrays a misleading picture of placement in the present day. i would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't include those numbers merely to deflate uva's stats.

but then you claimed that the difference to be 15.5%
who would double check the work anyways?
of course, i did, and found it to be 12.725%
and you did respond

but you responded not to the rounding down of 52.44, or the leaving out of fc, or the claim about penn grads going into business, or uva not self selecting into pi, or the pre-lt school funded stats, or calling a 10 point spread a 20 point spread, or why 2011 numbers were relevant
you just responded to one point i made about your fuzzy math

and your response was to nudge the 12.73% to 13%
and nudge 15.5% to 15%
and imply it's not such a big difference, and it's still substantial, and by the way have you seen uva's school-funded (which is totally irrelevant to the bl/fc argument we were having)

look, i'm glad you like your school
welcome to the club. i like my school.
bagel and tiago like their school. cleary likes his.
this board is lousy with homers
but this isn't the way to make your argument
when the facts are against you, you can't make up your own
that's what law deans do, not members of a community working to improve the state of knowledge about ls among prospective students

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chuckbass
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby chuckbass » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:09 am

Happy Friday night Burt.

daleearnhardt123
Posts: 287
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:41 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby daleearnhardt123 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:16 am

If youre really thinking of setting 74k on fire, at least speak to a law firm partner. S/he will tell you that, when they're recruiting, there is no difference between the two schools. The simple fact is that more Penn students target NYC--which is an easier market than some of those that UVA students target (i.e. Atlanta and DC).

or, you could just go to Penn because a few idiots in this thread told you to. Then, in 3 years, you'll be kicking yourself for what an idiot you are that your loan payments are 2x the size they needed to be.

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First Offense
Posts: 6379
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby First Offense » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:38 am

Having gone through OGI at UVA...

It seemed like half the fucking school targeted DC. I am also curious if the pre-select system can hurt those that don't bid wisely at/around median (you're not getting a pre-select from DC at median, but people still bid).

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R. Jeeves
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 7:54 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby R. Jeeves » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:44 am

.
Last edited by R. Jeeves on Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hutz_and_Goodman
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Re: Penn with $110,000 vs. UVA full-ride

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:46 am

rpupkin wrote:
pulstar wrote:Is UVA the easy choice here?

Yes.

User avatar
Winston1984
Posts: 1789
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: Penn with $110,000 vs. UVA full-ride

Postby Winston1984 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:41 am

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
pulstar wrote:Is UVA the easy choice here?

Yes.

User avatar
AOT
Posts: 1317
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby AOT » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:55 am

BigZuck wrote:OP- I don't understand your Penn preference (unless you're looking for BIG CHEESESTEAK LAW)

Is it cuz Penn is more prestigious? Let's cut through the bullshit and be honest with ourselves: neither is prestigous. You know that. I know that. Everyone knows that. If you cared about prestige you'd be headed to Princeton Law right now. But deep down you know that prestige doesn't matter. That's why you're not even considering Princeton Law. So prestige can't be a factor.

Is it because Penn "places better?" We both know that's LOL. Even if true on some level, I mean, LOL.

So what is it? You just like Philly more? I mean, fine. Is that worth 70K? Objectively, probably not. Is it worth it to you? That's all on you, broham. No need to make a thread if that's the case.

So what is it exactly?


I just chose NYU over the UVA Dillard for 30k more and am totally happy with my decision. On no planet was I going to spend three years living in Charlottesville. That's your call to make.

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R. Jeeves
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Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 7:54 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby R. Jeeves » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:05 pm

.
Last edited by R. Jeeves on Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tonysoprano
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:22 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby tonysoprano » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:48 pm

Brut wrote:your first claim in this thread was that there was a 70-50 spread
apparently one year data was good enough for you then
i pointed out that you can't round down 52.44% to 50%
you never responded

next you argued based on nlj250 numbers (instead of bl/fc)
uva has had historically high fc numbers, which depress bl
of course, i called you out on this. you said you had posted the aba numbers earlier, which i proved you had not
you never responded

your next claim was that penn has self-selection out of biglaw
why? jd/mbas (same argument people make for nu)
except it's not like nu. i showed that only 9 students were in jd advantage jobs. 10 total in the business category.
you never responded

up next was that uva's lower bl/fc didn't have to do with self-selection (my position is that it has some non-negligible effect, but doesn't explain the whole difference)
i pointed out that by looking on lt stats pre-lt school funded we can see how uva stacked up to penn for pi in a general sense (pi, of course, being the most obvious reason one selects out of bl/fc)
44/374 for uva, 17/276 for penn. there is evidence of greater self selection out of bl at uva than penn
you never responded

you then claimed that if there is self selection, it was due to school funded
i showed you pi outcomes pre-lt school funded shenanigans by uva
at very best, non-responsive. but with high potential to mislead by obfuscating the point i had made
you never responded

then i went back to your first argument. i found numbers indicating a 10 point spread between uva and penn last year
remember, your first argument was based just on 2014 data
this 10 point spread was half of the 20 point spread you claimed
you never responded

next you really perplexed me. you abandoned the one year stats altogether
now the 15% referred to a four year rolling average difference
right off the bat, i don't know how relevant 2011 numbers are. the gap has significantly narrowed between uva and penn from 2011 until now. perhaps you knew this, perhaps you didn't. regardless, it portrays a misleading picture of placement in the present day. i would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't include those numbers merely to deflate uva's stats.

but then you claimed that the difference to be 15.5%
who would double check the work anyways?
of course, i did, and found it to be 12.725%
and you did respond

but you responded not to the rounding down of 52.44, or the leaving out of fc, or the claim about penn grads going into business, or uva not self selecting into pi, or the pre-lt school funded stats, or calling a 10 point spread a 20 point spread, or why 2011 numbers were relevant
you just responded to one point i made about your fuzzy math

and your response was to nudge the 12.73% to 13%
and nudge 15.5% to 15%
and imply it's not such a big difference, and it's still substantial, and by the way have you seen uva's school-funded (which is totally irrelevant to the bl/fc argument we were having)

look, i'm glad you like your school
welcome to the club. i like my school.
bagel and tiago like their school. cleary likes his.
this board is lousy with homers
but this isn't the way to make your argument
when the facts are against you, you can't make up your own
that's what law deans do, not members of a community working to improve the state of knowledge about ls among prospective students

Where are you going to school? I'll pay $70k to not be there

whatamidoing
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:21 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby whatamidoing » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:51 pm

tonysoprano wrote:
Brut wrote:your first claim in this thread was that there was a 70-50 spread
apparently one year data was good enough for you then
i pointed out that you can't round down 52.44% to 50%
you never responded

next you argued based on nlj250 numbers (instead of bl/fc)
uva has had historically high fc numbers, which depress bl
of course, i called you out on this. you said you had posted the aba numbers earlier, which i proved you had not
you never responded

your next claim was that penn has self-selection out of biglaw
why? jd/mbas (same argument people make for nu)
except it's not like nu. i showed that only 9 students were in jd advantage jobs. 10 total in the business category.
you never responded

up next was that uva's lower bl/fc didn't have to do with self-selection (my position is that it has some non-negligible effect, but doesn't explain the whole difference)
i pointed out that by looking on lt stats pre-lt school funded we can see how uva stacked up to penn for pi in a general sense (pi, of course, being the most obvious reason one selects out of bl/fc)
44/374 for uva, 17/276 for penn. there is evidence of greater self selection out of bl at uva than penn
you never responded

you then claimed that if there is self selection, it was due to school funded
i showed you pi outcomes pre-lt school funded shenanigans by uva
at very best, non-responsive. but with high potential to mislead by obfuscating the point i had made
you never responded

then i went back to your first argument. i found numbers indicating a 10 point spread between uva and penn last year
remember, your first argument was based just on 2014 data
this 10 point spread was half of the 20 point spread you claimed
you never responded

next you really perplexed me. you abandoned the one year stats altogether
now the 15% referred to a four year rolling average difference
right off the bat, i don't know how relevant 2011 numbers are. the gap has significantly narrowed between uva and penn from 2011 until now. perhaps you knew this, perhaps you didn't. regardless, it portrays a misleading picture of placement in the present day. i would like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't include those numbers merely to deflate uva's stats.

but then you claimed that the difference to be 15.5%
who would double check the work anyways?
of course, i did, and found it to be 12.725%
and you did respond

but you responded not to the rounding down of 52.44, or the leaving out of fc, or the claim about penn grads going into business, or uva not self selecting into pi, or the pre-lt school funded stats, or calling a 10 point spread a 20 point spread, or why 2011 numbers were relevant
you just responded to one point i made about your fuzzy math

and your response was to nudge the 12.73% to 13%
and nudge 15.5% to 15%
and imply it's not such a big difference, and it's still substantial, and by the way have you seen uva's school-funded (which is totally irrelevant to the bl/fc argument we were having)

look, i'm glad you like your school
welcome to the club. i like my school.
bagel and tiago like their school. cleary likes his.
this board is lousy with homers
but this isn't the way to make your argument
when the facts are against you, you can't make up your own
that's what law deans do, not members of a community working to improve the state of knowledge about ls among prospective students

Where are you going to school? I'll pay $70k to not be there


Seconded.

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:54 pm

i'd pay 70k not to be a BC 3L who struck out and is now shitlaw bound
but that's just me

you should have dropped out while you had a chance tater

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tonysoprano
Posts: 193
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:22 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby tonysoprano » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:02 pm

No seriously where are you going to school if you don't mind sharing

User avatar
DCfilterDC
Posts: 2665
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby DCfilterDC » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:03 pm

tonysoprano wrote:No seriously where are you going to school if you don't mind sharing


He goes where you plan to deposit.

hth.

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:06 pm

fuck, he wants to deposit at nyu?

we don't need unthinking non-responsive potatoes like that here

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:12 pm

if you want to talk about my post, talk about my post

if you just want to fling your feces because you can't figure out a way to meaningfully contribute, do it in the lounge

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Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:17 pm

Lel

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Lel

why not respond to the substantive points?
no offense, but you've really turned into a complete penn shill. i'm serious here
it seems like every time i see you post you're pushing penn and using deceptive tactics like the ones i mentioned above. you used to be objective, and now it's all about hyping penn
don't you think it's important students get accurate information?

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AreJay711
Posts: 3406
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby AreJay711 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:21 pm

The thing is, not only isn't biglaw the end all, it usually isn't even the best outcome. There are clerkships and PI, but honestly even at firms, there are plenty of firm gigs that pay $80k-120k and have 1600 billable hour requirements. You might think $80k is leaving a lot on the table, but that's 40k after taxes and PAYE and most people would say it's worth working 800 fewer hours (2/3 realization). That's 2 1/2 more hours free each work day, assuming you take 2 weeks of vacation and work 6 days a week. Maybe you'd work more, but then you'd be chasing a bonus.

So you'd be paying $74k more for a worse outcome with Penn. You won't be able to avoid the pressure.

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Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:23 pm

I had to work at 8 this morning so I gave up

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Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:25 pm

Also I'm afraid you will kidnap and murder me

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:33 pm

you've made really misleading (and some outright false) statements in this thread – for what? to hype up a school you haven't even started classes at yet?
just admit you were wrong. don't join the feces hurling crew with that bc clown because you think you'll "win" the argument
you can't spend hours flooding the thread with fake stats and then pretend you're above it all when you're called out for your bs

BigZuck
Posts: 10851
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:35 pm

AreJay711 wrote:there are plenty of firm gigs that pay $80k-120k and have 1600 billable hour requirements.

Can you name 5?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it's probably just the hivemind in me saying that I thought those jobs were truly unicorns and didn't actually, like, exist. I would think lots of people would self-select into them, that's basically the type of place every single 0L says they want to work at when they make a choosing thread.

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smaug
Posts: 12570
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:31 pm

Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:35 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Also I'm afraid you will kidnap and murder me

Image
Brut wrote:you've made really misleading (and some outright false) statements in this thread – for what? to hype up a school you haven't even started classes at yet?
just admit you were wrong. don't join the feces hurling crew with that bc clown because you think you'll "win" the argument
you can't spend hours flooding the thread with fake stats and then pretend you're above it all when you're called out for your bs

Image




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