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BruceWayne
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:12 pm

@ Jason LMAO you're backpedaling because you run your mouth without thinking and you made a litany of day one logically flawed arguments because you are an arrogant fool.

And yes I did get an offer through OGI which I haven't dodged at all;in fact I went into detail (lol too much in fact) about that in the past and some of the other issues.


But thank you for your response: so the answer to my question is you have poor reading comp skills and tried to Mr. Magoo your dumb ass through my posts to figure out what you could and failed. What's worse is you're basically just a jackass with a big mouth because it's not like I said anything negative to/about you or anybody else. I barely even made an argument for you to dispute (which even if you were too that's fine and somewhat legit; it's not like I have stats to prove that a lot of people at UVA and the other similar T 14 schools target non NYC firm jobs).


Law is really something else. One of the many problems with the field is that it attracts oddly self confident but yet not particularly wise people like yourself by the dozens. In any other environment no one would tolerate you and you'd probably periodically end up getting your ass kicked. But in law you're borderline par for the course. It wears on people to have to deal with that day in and day out while restraining oneself from telling you off or KYTFO.

By the way, your "point", as you understandably cannot comprehend because of your limited experience, isn't really even as uniformly true as you think it is. It's true for a candidate from certain more highly populated areas of the country. But not really for people from a lot of other regions when they don't attend the NYC focused schools.


Edit-Apparently you're pretty young from your most recent post. I apologize to the other posters for wasting time responding to you.




Going back to the point of what I was saying; you all should just consider that students' job preferences affect the NYC firm oriented placement statistic studies more than you might think. And that they don't necessarily mean that UVA or Michigan or Boalt etc. are leaps and bounds behind the NYC focused schools in terms of placement ability in regards to "good" outcome jobs. It's just that what each student body considers a "good outcome" varies a lot more than what is intimated on here sometimes.
Last edited by BruceWayne on Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:23 pm

Mr. Magoo? I don't understand the pained reference, but no if the insinuation is that I read through your posts, I didn't. I've been active here for a long, long time. You giving bad advice is timeless.

I'm not sure what you're so enraged about here—that I suggest that people who want biglaw make peace with NYC? I stand by that! Entirely! That's exactly what I said. Make peace with the modal outcome.

I'm sorry that I accused you of striking out and was wrong. I really remember that and don't know where I got the idea. I could search through your posts now and make sure that my memory isn't faulty, or dig up the awful advice you've given over the years, but I don't really care enough.

Do you think it's that risible of a notion to suggest that people make peace with the modal outcome of their school? Do you disagree with the assertion that people should seriously consider that yes, they may end up in New York?

I get the impression that you don't know who I am Bruce. That's OK, but we've gone through this song and dance many many times, so I'm tired of it.

Pointedly—what's stupid about "Make peace with the modal outcome." ??

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BruceWayne
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:25 pm

You are a really strange guy.

And basically my advice to people is to take the money 9/10 because they are generally 22 year olds with little understanding of how bad what they perceive the best case outcome to be ( NYC biglaw with a truck ton of student loan debt) actually is and that they may not get regardless of whether they choose that higher cost school. Basically I'm borderline an alt account of BigLawAssociate, JCougar, and Rayiner when it comes to advice lol.

Other than that I don't give advice (except for URM admissions) because I don't know about other stuff and I don't like talking about things that I'm not familiar with (something you clearly have no qualms with).
Last edited by BruceWayne on Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:40 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:25 pm


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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:26 pm

BruceWayne wrote:You are a really strange guy.

This is true.

I also give pretty OK advice most of the time. That's what separates us, duder.

a corsair
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby a corsair » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:42 pm

BruceWayne wrote:Law is really something else. One of the many problems with the field is that it attracts oddly self confident but yet not particularly wise people like yourself by the dozens. In any other environment no one would tolerate you and you'd probably periodically end up getting your ass kicked. But in law you're borderline par for the course. It wears on people to have to deal with that day in and day out while restraining oneself from telling you off or KYTFO.


The self-awareness here is really incredible. LOL

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:49 pm

BruceWayne wrote:You are a really strange guy.

And basically my advice to people is to take the money 9/10 because they are generally 22 year olds with little understanding of how bad what they perceive the best case outcome to be ( NYC biglaw with a truck ton of student loan debt) actually is and that they may not get regardless of whether they choose that higher cost school. Basically I'm borderline an alt account of BigLawAssociate, JCougar, and Rayiner when it comes to advice lol.

Other than that I don't give advice (except for URM admissions) because I don't know about other stuff and I don't like talking about things that I'm not familiar with (something you clearly have no qualms with).

Bruce when you edit a post five times it makes it hard for me to respond to it. That's maybe the idea I guess.

You're not JCougar or Rayiner. Not close.

I agree that OP should take the money here. People should often take the money. Doesn't really explain your apoplectic fit. That said, you have many of them, so I guess it is par for the course.

What's the deal with the vale post if you were successful in your job hunt?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:30 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:You are a really strange guy.

And basically my advice to people is to take the money 9/10 because they are generally 22 year olds with little understanding of how bad what they perceive the best case outcome to be ( NYC biglaw with a truck ton of student loan debt) actually is and that they may not get regardless of whether they choose that higher cost school. Basically I'm borderline an alt account of BigLawAssociate, JCougar, and Rayiner when it comes to advice lol.

Other than that I don't give advice (except for URM admissions) because I don't know about other stuff and I don't like talking about things that I'm not familiar with (something you clearly have no qualms with).

Bruce when you edit a post five times it makes it hard for me to respond to it. That's maybe the idea I guess.

You're not JCougar or Rayiner. Not close.

I agree that OP should take the money here. People should often take the money. Doesn't really explain your apoplectic fit. That said, you have many of them, so I guess it is par for the course.

What's the deal with the vale post if you were successful in your job hunt?


I really don't think he remembers or knows what your alts are, which makes this exchange even funnier

Also yea he didn't earn the nickname "Bitter Bruce" for nothing

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jbagelboy
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:32 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:I've been active here for a long, long time. You giving bad advice is timeless.


Also, love it.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby JohannDeMann » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:36 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:I assume you struck out because I remember you posting in the vale and complaining a lot.

If you did indeed strike out, I think it's because you're (1) pretty dumb and it wouldn't shock me if you did poorly and (2) didn't fully grasp the rules of the game you're playing.

Being absolutely opposed to working in NYC, unless you're a stellar candidate is an example of that, Bruce.

BruceWayne wrote: I know A LOT of people like that who ONLY ended up with job offers in their home regions--NO NYC OFFERS AT ALL.

I'm sure this is true. I also wonder which firms they were targeting in NYC compared to which firms they were targeting in the south, their grades, how strong of an interviewer they are, &c.

My point is simply that if you (1) want to work in biglaw or something like it and (2) are absolutely opposed to NYC and (3) are not otherwise a stellar candidate, it's going to be tough for you.

That shouldn't be shocking for anyone.

Also, because you perpetually dodge this—did you get an offer through OGI, Bruce?

How is the last question relevant to anything at all?

I love the fact that you're gonna be eating shit in NYC biglaw the next few years, but hate that you're a natural shiteater who will enjoy it.

And no, it's not worth 75k more than UVA.

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:42 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
I love the fact that you're gonna be eating shit in NYC biglaw the next few years, but hate that you're a natural shiteater who will enjoy it.


I don't deny that I'm going to have to work long hours and totally own up to the fact that I made mistakes in the applications (didn't ED NU), interview process (was overly conservative and limited myself in absurd ways), in law school (tried too hard for a while) and more.

JohannDeMann wrote:How is the last question relevant to anything at all?


It's relevant because half of his bit is woe-is-me hiring stuff and the horrors of getting no job pwn'd, and I've always thought (maybe incorrectly) that he extrapolates far too much on his own experiences without understanding how things work for people who aren't Bruce Wayne.

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bearsfan23
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby bearsfan23 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:46 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:I assume you struck out because I remember you posting in the vale and complaining a lot.

If you did indeed strike out, I think it's because you're (1) pretty dumb and it wouldn't shock me if you did poorly and (2) didn't fully grasp the rules of the game you're playing.

Being absolutely opposed to working in NYC, unless you're a stellar candidate is an example of that, Bruce.

BruceWayne wrote: I know A LOT of people like that who ONLY ended up with job offers in their home regions--NO NYC OFFERS AT ALL.

I'm sure this is true. I also wonder which firms they were targeting in NYC compared to which firms they were targeting in the south, their grades, how strong of an interviewer they are, &c.

My point is simply that if you (1) want to work in biglaw or something like it and (2) are absolutely opposed to NYC and (3) are not otherwise a stellar candidate, it's going to be tough for you.

That shouldn't be shocking for anyone.

Also, because you perpetually dodge this—did you get an offer through OGI, Bruce?

How is the last question relevant to anything at all?

I love the fact that you're gonna be eating shit in NYC biglaw the next few years, but hate that you're a natural shiteater who will enjoy it.

And no, it's not worth 75k more than UVA.


More great advice from Johann. We get it, you're a K-JD who hates being a lawyer. You don't need to bring your misery into every thread, or send me angry PMs about it

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby Capitol_Idea » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:48 pm

Bears/Johann and JT/Bruce at the same time? It's like Christmas. Somebody get BlueLotus and the BC Crazy Crew in here.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby JohannDeMann » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:18 am

bearsfan23 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:I assume you struck out because I remember you posting in the vale and complaining a lot.

If you did indeed strike out, I think it's because you're (1) pretty dumb and it wouldn't shock me if you did poorly and (2) didn't fully grasp the rules of the game you're playing.

Being absolutely opposed to working in NYC, unless you're a stellar candidate is an example of that, Bruce.

BruceWayne wrote: I know A LOT of people like that who ONLY ended up with job offers in their home regions--NO NYC OFFERS AT ALL.

I'm sure this is true. I also wonder which firms they were targeting in NYC compared to which firms they were targeting in the south, their grades, how strong of an interviewer they are, &c.

My point is simply that if you (1) want to work in biglaw or something like it and (2) are absolutely opposed to NYC and (3) are not otherwise a stellar candidate, it's going to be tough for you.

That shouldn't be shocking for anyone.

Also, because you perpetually dodge this—did you get an offer through OGI, Bruce?

How is the last question relevant to anything at all?

I love the fact that you're gonna be eating shit in NYC biglaw the next few years, but hate that you're a natural shiteater who will enjoy it.

And no, it's not worth 75k more than UVA.


More great advice from Johann. We get it, you're a K-JD who hates being a lawyer. You don't need to bring your misery into every thread, or send me angry PMs about it


Well I didn't send you PMs plural - just one. You should get your facts right before you're a lawyer. That's easily worth 5-10 mins of a partner chewing you out for making him look dumb when you don't know the fucking difference between one and more than one. It's just counting and using the right fucking Noun form you should have learned in 3rd grade. But I'm not a partner so I won't say that.
And I posted that pm I sent you in the last thread you brought this up and it's not angry at all. Feel free to post around. I'm on my phone or else I would.

I actually decided with the spring weather I would stop hating my job so this is the new me. Just happy to be alive at 3:17 am on this soon to be beautiful Tuesday morning. Can't wait to discuss xyz and tomorrow with a partner at 930 am. But I'm lucky because most people will already have worked 2 hours by the time I stroll in the office.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:09 am

Jason Taverner wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:You are a really strange guy.

And basically my advice to people is to take the money 9/10 because they are generally 22 year olds with little understanding of how bad what they perceive the best case outcome to be ( NYC biglaw with a truck ton of student loan debt) actually is and that they may not get regardless of whether they choose that higher cost school. Basically I'm borderline an alt account of BigLawAssociate, JCougar, and Rayiner when it comes to advice lol.

Other than that I don't give advice (except for URM admissions) because I don't know about other stuff and I don't like talking about things that I'm not familiar with (something you clearly have no qualms with).

Bruce when you edit a post five times it makes it hard for me to respond to it. That's maybe the idea I guess.

You're not JCougar or Rayiner. Not close.

I agree that OP should take the money here. People should often take the money. Doesn't really explain your apoplectic fit. That said, you have many of them, so I guess it is par for the course.

What's the deal with the vale post if you were successful in your job hunt?


Wait did you just say "I'm not Rayiner or JCougar; not even close?" Lmao you know I said that simply to articulate that I give the same/similar advice: I.e. discussing how the market is for new law grads and the reality of dealing with big student loan debt. I'm not saying that I aspire to be like or "admire" anonymous posters on an online forum...Which from your comment I guess you do? Which also explains a lot.

And as far as you being a "longtime poster"and keeping up with your alts, no I didn't know/wasn't aware. Also not really sure why you think someone would care/keep up with that lol?

Are you still in law school? Your vale question exhibits a lack of knowledge about what it's aactually like to get a job. You do know that you can get a job outside of OCI right? Although my situation wasn't even as simple as that. But again it's like you're grasping at straws to show that I'm unemployed for whatever reason. Which, even if I was it really wouldn't assist your point about me not being aware of what hiring is like at all.

As far as throwing a fit goes: you know I just said that UVA and other similar schools have students that target different job markets from the NYC focused top 14 s, and that you should take that into account when comparing their pplacement data. You just kind of went wild and into left field with a lot of irrelevant stuff after that. You and the Jbagel guy just come across as very odd awkward and intense characters. Im gathering your online "rep"/personalities mean a lot to you . I'm sorry if you feel like I questioned that. I'm sure a lot of posters know all your alts and really look up to you and that your online egos/reps are "timeless" as you like to say.

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:38 am

The insinuation wasn't that you continued to be employed, just that you failed spectacularly in the process by which the vast majority of people on this website get their first law job. It's like listening to a person talk about this sick deal on a car he got and then you hear how he got fleeced in every way imaginable. Maybe you are BruceWayne, legal masterman, knower of the firms, watcher of the legal hiring processes.

Or maybe you're just a bitter tool who was bad at the whole law school thing but likes to play a tough guy on the Internet.

You're not JCougar or Rayiner because they both contributed something of value. Your posts are net negative. That's a hard feat for an on-topic poster, but you manage it. If it were intentional I'd commend you.

How does my vale question exhibit a lack of knowledge about what it's like to get a job? Yes, you can get a job through processes outside of OCI! But, you also recognize that many who get jobs through other means don't strike out and become miserable husks, yeah?

Finally, I said the "lol you don't know who I am" not because you really should know who I am, but because a lot of your initial posts seemed to be trying to dismiss me as a naïve 0L. Which is funny, because I've been arguing with you about your bad advice for years.

So, again, what's so horrible about suggesting that people should make peace with the modal outcome of law school if they want to go?

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ymmv
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby ymmv » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:39 am

Fuuuuuuck the on topics.

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:43 am

ymmv wrote:Fuuuuuuck the on topics.

fair.

i'm done. everyone said the same thing re: the OP and I can battle bruce another day.

you win bruce. i know nothing. you know everything.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:11 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:The insinuation wasn't that you continued to be employed, just that you failed spectacularly in the process by which the vast majority of people on this website get their first law job. It's like listening to a person talk about this sick deal on a car he got and then you hear how he got fleeced in every way imaginable. Maybe you are BruceWayne, legal masterman, knower of the firms, watcher of the legal hiring processes.

Or maybe you're just a bitter tool who was bad at the whole law school thing but likes to play a tough guy on the Internet.

You're not JCougar or Rayiner because they both contributed something of value. Your posts are net negative. That's a hard feat for an on-topic poster, but you manage it. If it were intentional I'd commend you.

How does my vale question exhibit a lack of knowledge about what it's like to get a job? Yes, you can get a job through processes outside of OCI! But, you also recognize that many who get jobs through other means don't strike out and become miserable husks, yeah?

Finally, I said the "lol you don't know who I am" not because you really should know who I am, but because a lot of your initial posts seemed to be trying to dismiss me as a naïve 0L. Which is funny, because I've been arguing with you about your bad advice for years.

So, again, what's so horrible about suggesting that people should make peace with the modal outcome of law school if they want to go?



I do respect the idea of being on topic so I won't respond after this. But you essentially just like to hear yourself talk and you enjoy your "online rep". You are saying that we've been "arguing for years" which I'm sorry for saying this in such an uncouth manner bur that comment in and of itself is just lame as hell. It makes you sound like you are really into whatever sort of "rep" or "life" that you have built on this online forum. I literally don't know or care who you are.

But the thing is, we are not even arguing about anything. I made a comment about how UVA and other similar top 14s have a different sort of student body that does not seek out NYC firm jobs with the same sort of fervor as the Penn/Cornell etc. type schools and that one needs to consider that when assuming that UVA doesn't have the same ability to get you a good job.
You're basically just on a little rant about me personally as if I slept with the girl of your prepubescent dreams or something.

And as far as "failed spectacularly at the process by which most people get jobs on this site". I assume you're talking about OCI? Which the thing is, I have already said multiple times that I DID get a job at OCI lol. So one your assumption is wrong and two, even if I didn't, that is NOT RELEVANT IN ANY WAY TO WHAT I WAS SAYING (as Johann pointed out). Again though there are more pieces to my story that you aren't connecting the dots on but it's not important because it isn't relevant.


In terms of your whole "modal outcome" etc. rant that again isn't really relevant to my point. I guess you just felt like you needed to put that out there. But I will say that for the UVA, Michigan, Boalt type schools that is actually not as uniform as you make it out to be. Part of why you may think that is because you probably have the more prototypical TLS job search (as in you got whatever grades meet the cutoff for your school at the big NYC law firms and you just applied and got the job because of that and so that was basically the end of your search; you also may not have had much interaction with people who ended up with bottom 1/3 grades etc.). To be honest I actually have the exact type of job that you say doesn't exist (i.e. in between the two modes) and I know a fairly significant number of people from my school who do as well. Those type of outcomes are a bit more common at schools like UVA, Michigan, Duke, Boalt etc. because of the nature of their student bodies and the locations that they target. To a lot of us who attended one of those schools that sort of job is at least as good of an outcome as a NYC firm job (and I'm being generous--many of us absolutely did not want that sans it being the only option). But the issue becomes that some may look at employment stats for us and compare them directly to say Penn and not realize that and give too much credit to Penn's higher percentages.

But I'm sorry that you've wasted so many years arguing with me about all of this awful advice I've been giving. Especially with me not even knowing who you are. I imagine that's not a great feeling.

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smaug
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Re: Is Penn worth $74K more than UVA?

Postby smaug » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:01 pm

I'll only respond to the tiny sliver that can even remotely be considered on topic—

I never said that other jobs didn't exist. I never said that it's absurd to not want NYC. I never said that it would be necessarily easier to get NYC biglaw than regional midlaw or something else.

I said that most law school applicants should make peace with the modal outcome of their school—that holds true of Penn, UVA, or Cardozo. If you're not OK with the most common outcome of a law school, you probably shouldn't go there. At UVA the modal outcome is actually working in DC, but only by a percentage point and a half. A person should pause and think before unequivocally writing off jobs that employ 17% of the graduating class.

(source: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... tion/2013/)

Sorry that this statement riled you so, Bruce. I always assumed you were touchy about this stuff because you wanted that kind of outcome and didn't attain it. Now I know that you obviously always wanted the far better outcome that you, and many others, wanted, and that your posts in the Vale were just coincidental happenstance.

Cheers.




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