Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

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negativefeedback
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Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:13 am

UCLA offered me $123k, Emory offered me $132k, USC offered me $150k & GWU offered me $135k. All of these were merit aid. I applied to all the Top 14 as well and Columbia were the only ones to accept me outright. I'm still waiting on U Chicago, Cornell, Georgetown, Stanford & NYU. Berkeley rejected me, and everybody else waitlisted me, including Harvard & Yale. I haven't asked Columbia for any scholarship, but they're supposedly still evaluating me. I don't expect anything. With my numbers, I'm lucky to be considered in the top 5 at all. I haven't taken my current offers to them, because (1) I don't think they'll care, and (2) it will reveal the fact I don't have offers from better schools before they make me their own offer (if any).

I'm still undecided on where I want to go, but I'd love the chance to do PI work. I have no problems doing Big Law for a few years though. I also have absolutely no ties to anywhere. I come from the middle of nowhere so all of these cities will be completely new to me. Any of these cities are an improvement from my hometown with 3mbps internet. My family is low middle-class which means that I don't get considered for need-based aid despite the fact I really freaking need it. I already have 20k in loans that I'll have to pay off at some point so anything I take out now will just add to that.

Most deadlines are this week, and GWU's deadline passed although they kinda gave me an extension by sending me an email telling me I'm overdue. So what should I do?

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby Clemenceau » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:18 am

negativefeedback wrote:My family is low middle-class which means that I don't get considered for need-based aid despite the fact I really freaking need it. I already have 20k in loans that I'll have to pay off at some point so anything I take out now will just add to that.


Obviously I'm not sure exactly what low-middle class means, but don't discount yourself from need-based aid yet. I received need-based aid after I appealed an initial decision of $0

Edit: I basically just explained how broke I am to an extent that wasn't apparent on needaccess, FAFSA, etc. I got a healthy chunk of aid from multiple t14s this way. Worth a shot!

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby twenty » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:28 am

All of these options are basically equally good, but only for the geographic areas they're affiliated with. I'd kick UCLA unless they match USC's offer, and I'd kick GWU on principal unless you have this overwhelming desire to be in DC. Emory if you want to work in the south, USC if you want to work in California. The problem here is that it basically comes down to personal preference.

I get the sinking feeling that you're a reverse splitter and the (actual) credited response is sit out and retake.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:30 am

negativefeedback wrote:
I'm still undecided on where I want to go, but I'd love the chance to do PI work. I have no problems doing Big Law for a few years though. I also have absolutely no ties to anywhere. I come from the middle of nowhere so all of these cities will be completely new to me. Any of these cities are an improvement from my hometown with 3mbps internet. My family is low middle-class which means that I don't get considered for need-based aid despite the fact I really freaking need it. I already have 20k in loans that I'll have to pay off at some point so anything I take out now will just add to that.




What's your COA for UCLA/USC? Still going to be high right?

Don't go to law school if you have to pay more than 100k since you already owe 20k. You're not even sure you want to be a lawyer, which means you aren't going to like it.

Also the whole "I want to a try a new city" thing is retarded. You don't need to pay 200k to move to a new area.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:43 am

negativefeedback wrote:UCLA offered me $123k, Emory offered me $132k, USC offered me $150k & GWU offered me $135k. All of these were merit aid. I applied to all the Top 14 as well and Columbia were the only ones to accept me outright. I'm still waiting on U Chicago, Cornell, Georgetown, Stanford & NYU. Berkeley rejected me, and everybody else waitlisted me, including Harvard & Yale. I haven't asked Columbia for any scholarship, but they're supposedly still evaluating me. I don't expect anything. With my numbers, I'm lucky to be considered in the top 5 at all. I haven't taken my current offers to them, because (1) I don't think they'll care, and (2) it will reveal the fact I don't have offers from better schools before they make me their own offer (if any).

I'm still undecided on where I want to go, but I'd love the chance to do PI work. I have no problems doing Big Law for a few years though. I also have absolutely no ties to anywhere. I come from the middle of nowhere so all of these cities will be completely new to me. Any of these cities are an improvement from my hometown with 3mbps internet. My family is low middle-class which means that I don't get considered for need-based aid despite the fact I really freaking need it. I already have 20k in loans that I'll have to pay off at some point so anything I take out now will just add to that.

Most deadlines are this week, and GWU's deadline passed although they kinda gave me an extension by sending me an email telling me I'm overdue. So what should I do?

1) i am suspicious. it's mid-april and cls is the only t14 to take you? is this the truth, or are you trying to find support for attending sticker at cls?
2) cls at sticker is insane. don't do that. don't be insane. if that's your only option and you feel you must go t14, then the only rational decision is sitting out a cycle (unless you get off wl with $$ or somehow get $$ out of cls) and trying to figure out what went wrong with this one.
3) and if your post is true, something did go seriously wrong this cycle. you should give us more details so we can help you figure out what went wrong. numbers?
4) there's no such thing as a top 5. there is such a thing as a t14, but just barely.
5) you can try negotiating, but with no other schools on the table, you don't have many cards to play. remember: a token scholarship (say, $10k a year) is still basically sticker, and is still an objectively terrible idea
6) need-based aid is mostly flame. so your family's income won't make much difference
7) if you want to do PI, go to a regional offering substantial scholarship money in a market you'd like to work in. if you want prestigious PI, you should probably specify so, and tell us a little bit about what exactly you have in mind
8) having "no problems doing Big Law" sounds like it's not your top goal. with sticker debt, you'll be locked into biglaw for quite a while, whether you like it or not. however, if you actually do want biglaw and it's important to keep that on the table, my advice is to sit out this cycle and reapply (unless you get off waitlists with $$, or you somehow get $$ out of cls)

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:51 am

Clemenceau wrote:Obviously I'm not sure exactly what low-middle class means, but don't discount yourself from need-based aid yet. I received need-based aid after I appealed an initial decision of $0
My parents were upper middle class until about 2 years ago. They have tons of assets and lots of debt, and their current income cannot afford their current debt. In fact, I had to lend them the leftovers from my previous student loans to keep them afloat. Sadly, the fact that they make any income at all seems to discount me from need-based aid. UCLA gave me $1k a year, which is how I got 123k. I asked for more and they all said no. I doubt Columbia would oblige, but I'm still waiting on their decision.

twenty wrote:I get the sinking feeling that you're a reverse splitter and the (actual) credited response is sit out and retake.
I am a reverse splitter, but I took it 3 times. Can't retake.

BiglawAssociate wrote:Don't go to law school if you have to pay more than 100k since you already owe 20k. You're not even sure you want to be a lawyer, which means you aren't going to like it.
I don't see how you could have inferred that.
BiglawAssociate wrote:Also the whole "I want to a try a new city" thing is retarded. You don't need to pay 200k to move to a new area.
What's with your random inferences? I never said I'm looking to try a new city. I just said I didn't care where I ended up.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:53 am

negativefeedback wrote:
Clemenceau wrote:Obviously I'm not sure exactly what low-middle class means, but don't discount yourself from need-based aid yet. I received need-based aid after I appealed an initial decision of $0
My parents were upper middle class until about 2 years ago. They have tons of assets and lots of debt, and their current income cannot afford their current debt. In fact, I had to lend them the leftovers from my previous student loans to keep them afloat. Sadly, the fact that they make any income at all seems to discount me from need-based aid. UCLA gave me $1k a year, which is how I got 123k. I asked for more and they all said no. I doubt Columbia would oblige, but I'm still waiting on their decision.



Jesus god. Don't make the same mistakes your parents did - I personally wouldn't take any of these options if I were you. You don't seem set on practicing law since you have no set fucking idea of what you want ("you love the chance of PI") (and especially with respect to biglaw, which you'd need to service your debt) and you have no family money to fall back on (unlike many, many people at T14s). I graduated only a few years ago and already something like 1/3 of my friends have already quit the practice of law because they hated it. (I am a T-14 grad). Unless you have actually worked at a biglaw firm or the DOJ doing paralegal work or some other shit, you have no fucking idea what practicing law is like. I'd say 90% of people I know who are lawyers hate practicing law, so it's reasonable to assume you would too. And a lot of people in the field come from family money (aka no debt/trust fund kids) so they don't have the pressure of paying off huge loans or clinging onto some shitty job just to pay the bills. You have no fallback option - and the stress is going to be 200000 times worse for you.

And if you want PI, go to a regional school for free. Normal PI is not as prestige conscious. It's more about commitment, dedication, etc.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:02 am

Brut wrote:1) i am suspicious. it's mid-april and cls is the only t14 to take you? is this the truth, or are you trying to find support for attending sticker at cls?
2) cls at sticker is insane. don't do that. don't be insane. if that's your only option and you feel you must go t14, then the only rational decision is sitting out a cycle (unless you get off wl with $$ or somehow get $$ out of cls) and trying to figure out what went wrong with this one.
3) and if your post is true, something did go seriously wrong this cycle. you should give us more details so we can help you figure out what went wrong. numbers?
4) there's no such thing as a top 5. there is such a thing as a t14, but just barely.
5) you can try negotiating, but with no other schools on the table, you don't have many cards to play. remember: a token scholarship (say, $10k a year) is still basically sticker, and is still an objectively terrible idea
6) need-based aid is mostly flame. so your family's income won't make much difference
7) if you want to do PI, go to a regional offering substantial scholarship money in a market you'd like to work in. if you want prestigious PI, you should probably specify so, and tell us a little bit about what exactly you have in mind
8) having "no problems doing Big Law" sounds like it's not your top goal. with sticker debt, you'll be locked into biglaw for quite a while, whether you like it or not. however, if you actually do want biglaw and it's important to keep that on the table, my advice is to sit out this cycle and reapply (unless you get off waitlists with $$, or you somehow get $$ out of cls)


1- It sucks, I know. Tell me about it.
2/3- I took the LSAT 3 times and my highest was a 167. 4.0 GPA URM got me into Columbia, but that's it. I don't see the benefit of sitting out since I can't take the test again.
4- You know what I meant. It's harder to get into Columbia than Cornell, yet apparently, I'm the exception to the norm.
5- I agree, negotiating won't do shit for me. But I really wasn't expecting such a horrific scenario so I don't know what to do.
6- Good to know, but I still have no idea what they're going to decide.
7- I've always wanted to work for a DA's office. Eventually, I wanted to open my own firm and build it from the ground up. Yeah, I know it's a pipe-dream, but it's one I always wanted to pursue. I've always been open to whatever opportunities present themselves.
8- My top goal is to have my own firm. That doesn't mean I have any problem doing Big Law. I would do it for 10 years if I can open my own firm right after. On a related note, do you think there are ANY chances of getting off waitlists with $$? I've been researching, but can't seem to find examples of people who were offered aid off the waitlist.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:05 am

whoa. wait a minute. 4.0/167 urm?
something went seriously wrong with your cycle if this is true

what kind of urm
is the 4.0 the lsac calculated gpa of your first bachelor's degree
did you get the gpa from an online college
are there any serious character and fitness issues at play
can you think of any red flags in your app, such as an extremely poor personal statement or LOR
167 - any test day violations or anything shady like that
what month did you apply

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby twenty » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:11 am

negativefeedback wrote:167. 4.0 GPA URM


What in the actual fuck. If you're AA, right now you should be choosing between a full ride in the T14 or Stanford. If you're not AA, you should still be looking at serious scholarship money from T14 and maybe even H/S.

Something went seriously wrong with your cycle. Forget retaking, even reapplying next year is probably worth it if you screwed up your application.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:12 am

twenty wrote:
negativefeedback wrote:167. 4.0 GPA URM


What in the actual fuck. If you're AA, right now you should be choosing between a full ride in the T14 or Stanford. If you're not AA, you should still be looking at serious scholarship money from T14 and maybe even H/S.

Something went seriously wrong with your cycle. Forget retaking, even reapplying next year is probably worth it.


I'm going to guess Latino ...not that big of a boost

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby twenty » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:13 am

Even MA/PR is pretty significant.

http://mylsn.info/nwnqwg/

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:14 am

twenty wrote:Even MA/PR is pretty significant.

http://mylsn.info/nwnqwg/


Weird. Maybe his first two LSAT takes were just really shitty? (I know schools don't average anymore, but still if you have a 155 or whatever that looks bad)

The outcome is bizarre if not flame though
Last edited by BiglawAssociate on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:15 am

even if there was something glaring in your file, i can't think of a rational explanation for why cls in particular would take you, but no other t14s
similarly, i can't think of an explanation for why your outcomes would be so uniformally bad in the t14, then move to named scholarship territory as soon you hit ucla

idk op doesn't sound like troll, but this reeks of troll

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:22 am

Brut wrote:even if there was something glaring in your file, i can't think of a rational explanation for why cls in particular would take you, but no other t14s
similarly, i can't think of an explanation for why your outcomes would be so uniformally bad in the t14, then move to named scholarship territory as soon you hit ucla

idk op doesn't sound like troll, but this reeks of troll


Definitely not trolling, I can PM you my letters if you want. I can't think of anything that was bad in my application. My Columbia interviewer was very excited about my personal statement and I personally thought it was pretty good (biased of course). I tweaked it for all the other applications, but I sent the same points across. I don't get why there is such a disparity with high scholarships at UCLA and below, but literally NOTHING above. I got interviewed at UChi, but I haven't heard back from them.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:23 am

BiglawAssociate wrote:
twenty wrote:Even MA/PR is pretty significant.

http://mylsn.info/nwnqwg/


Weird. Maybe his first two LSAT takes were just really shitty? (I know schools don't average anymore, but still if you have a 155 or whatever that looks bad)

The outcome is bizarre if not flame though


That could be it. My first test was a 155. I totally blanked during logic games. It was not my highest moment.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby 03152016 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:28 am

that wouldn't make much of a difference outside of hys
if this isn't flame, then you really need to take some time to evaluate what you did this cycle and figure out what happened
scroll up and look at the questions i posted earlier, that should give you a starting point (those questions are the most obvious reasons why someone with your stats would be dinged)

with your stats, i would expect hys admits and t14 full rides
obviously don't pull the trigger on any of your current options until you've gotten to the bottom of this

if you've gotten any rejects, i'd call up admissions and see if they can give you some insight, and follow up WLs with LOCIs

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:58 am

Since you're waitlisted at Harvard & Yale & waiting on replies from Stanford, Chicago, Cornell, NYU & Georgetown, your cycle isn't over yet. The law schools from which you have not heard may be waiting to see if some scholarship dollars open up (H & Yale only offer need based aid).

You need to start communicating now with Cornell, Stanford, Chicago, Harvard & Yale. Tell them your situation. Cornell should offer you substantial money.

Do not pay sticker--or anywhere near sticker price--for Columbia.

Stay strong. Don't panic. Wait for the right offer in the T-14, or wait until next year. I think that you have some good, maybe great, news coming. Be proactive. Contact all schools which are of interest to you.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby Jessicakes90 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:17 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Since you're waitlisted at Harvard & Yale & waiting on replies from Stanford, Chicago, Cornell, NYU & Georgetown, your cycle isn't over yet. The law schools from which you have not heard may be waiting to see if some scholarship dollars open up (H & Yale only offer need based aid).

You need to start communicating now with Cornell, Stanford, Chicago, Harvard & Yale. Tell them your situation. Cornell should offer you substantial money.

Do not pay sticker--or anywhere near sticker price--for Columbia.

Stay strong. Don't panic. Wait for the right offer in the T-14, or wait until next year. I think that you have some good, maybe great, news coming. Be proactive. Contact all schools which are of interest to you.


Cosign with the above. When did you apply? If you applied late in the year, it might be affecting your results as well.

That being said; communicate, communicate, communicate. I'd ask Columbia for money. Fine, you've got nothing really to negotiate with - but you're already accepted, they're not going to rescind your offer. If a couple of emails/phone calls gets you much needed money, go for it. If no money from CLS and no WL movement or good news from the remaining T14's, absolutely sit out a year. 167/URM/4.0 GPA: you should be looking at acceptances from almost all T14's. Get some good W/E and re-apply next cycle.

Absolutely not CLS at sticker. Coupled with the cost of living in NYC, that's financial suicide.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:45 pm

Jessicakes90 wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Get some good W/E and re-apply next cycle.


I applied in February with the Feb LSAT so yeah, that can definitely be what's affecting me here. But if I sit out and reapply again, what exactly is the "W/E" that I'm going to make better? I can't retake the test, my GPA can't get any better, and I personally read my LOR's and they were glowing. Maybe I can work harder on my statements, but they weren't bad, and even if they could use improvement, I doubt they were deal-breakers. I'm really young so the schools might just be youth-avert right now.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby Hand » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:47 pm

negativefeedback wrote:
Jessicakes90 wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Get some good W/E and re-apply next cycle.


I applied in February with the Feb LSAT so yeah, that can definitely be what's affecting me here. But if I sit out and reapply again, what exactly is the "W/E" that I'm going to make better? I can't retake the test, my GPA can't get any better, and I personally read my LOR's and they were glowing. Maybe I can work harder on my statements, but they weren't bad, and even if they could use improvement, I doubt they were deal-breakers. I'm really young so the schools might just be youth-avert right now.


Work Experience. Which will also help with the age problem.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:50 pm

Also what is "really young"? Going to law school before you turn 21 would kinda suck.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby Hand » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:52 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:Also what is "really young"? Going to law school before you turn 21 would kinda suck.


but going to CLS at sticker at that age does allow you to have your soul completely crushed by debt and big law by 27, which puts you way ahead of the competition; something worth thinking about

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:05 pm

Hand wrote:
Other25BeforeYou wrote:Also what is "really young"? Going to law school before you turn 21 would kinda suck.


but going to CLS at sticker at that age does allow you to have your soul completely crushed by debt and big law by 27, which puts you way ahead of the competition; something worth thinking about

Haha, I started law school right after turning 21, took out loans for near-sticker at Cornell, and am turning 27 this year, so this is basically my life.

OP, I truly wish I'd waited another 2-3 years to go to law school. Don't get me wrong, I love what I do, but sometimes I look around and look at my pile of debt and wonder why the hell I was in such a rush to grow up. Also your numbers my year would've meant close to a full ride at Cornell, so at the very least waiting will let you apply early and give you a good shot at going to a T14 with much less debt.

But yeah, if you're dead set on going this year, call Georgetown, Cornell, and NYU and tell them that. I wouldn't be surprised if they cough up some money.

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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs. UCLA/USC/GWU/Emory ($$$$)

Postby negativefeedback » Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:24 pm

Other25BeforeYou wrote:But yeah, if you're dead set on going this year, call Georgetown, Cornell, and NYU and tell them that. I wouldn't be surprised if they cough up some money.


What exactly do I say to a school that hasn't even admitted me? I've been wanting to contact them for an update on my status, but I am literally clueless as to what I should say and how I should say it.




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