Is Cornell a regional school?

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Maple90
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Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby Maple90 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:20 pm

Is Cornell a regional school?

With the vast majority of its class taking jobs in NY, are Cornell's job statistics a byproduct of self selection due to its location near the largest legal market, or is it a regional school (with the exception being for those with strong ties elsewhere)?

Specifically, what is the likelihood of someone without ties getting big law in Southern California from Cornell? I only have strong ties to the pacific northwest, and British Columbia (not that this is an option), as well as weaker ones to Hawaii, Florida, and Wisconsin (having lived in each of these places for a year or so).

Would trying to spend 1L summer in SoCal make much of a difference?

How about for prosecutor or pd jobs, are these different?

I Ask this as someone who was waitlisted at UCLA, and has been waiting for a response from USC for 4 months (so this doest seem to be a likely possibility either).

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:21 pm

All schools are regional.

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isuperserial
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby isuperserial » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:28 pm

Maple90 wrote:Is Cornell a regional school?

With the vast majority of its class taking jobs in NY, are Cornell's job statistics a byproduct of self selection due to its location near the largest legal market, or is it a regional school (with the exception being for those with strong ties elsewhere)?

Specifically, what is the likelihood of someone without ties getting big law in Southern California from Cornell? I only have strong ties to the pacific northwest, and British Columbia (not that this is an option), as well as weaker ones to Hawaii, Florida, and Wisconsin (having lived in each of these places for a year or so).

Would trying to spend 1L summer in SoCal make much of a difference?

How about for prosecutor or pd jobs, are these different?

I Ask this as someone who was waitlisted at UCLA, and has been waiting for a response from USC for 4 months (so this doest seem to be a likely possibility either).


Do you have a scholarship at Cornell? If you don't, going to a different school at a discount may be a better option.

That being said, Cornell is going to place substantially better into California than say, Ohio State or Rutgers. It's a top 14 school. But if you really want to end up in California, you should go to a California school.

adil91
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby adil91 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:30 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:All schools are regional.


Even Yale?

BigZuck
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:33 pm

Targeting CA without CA ties and sticker debt strapped to your back (or 200K+ debt, whatever the situation is) is a non-starter IMO.

What are your numbers?

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby SteelPenguin » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:54 pm

For prosecutor or pd jobs, better bet is to go to CA where you can network more effectively. Cornell's public interest leap also isn't as great as some other T14s. I love Cornell, but it doesn't sound like the right choice for your goals

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AreJay711
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:57 pm

Spending 1L in SoCal would definitely help.

Generally though, the self selection matters. It isn't that CA firms won't know that Cornell is a good school -- they will -- it's just that they'll have fewer lawyers on the recruiting committee from Cornell who will push the firm to take a Cornell grad over someone they evaluate equally who went to school X. It might also be the case that fewer CA firms will attend OCI. More importantly, fewer interviewers from the big firms with CA offices will be from the CA office. Even though the NYC reps might ostensibly be hiring for the CA office, a recommendation for a call back from a lawyer at the CA office means more than a recommendation from a NYC lawyer.

xiao_long
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby xiao_long » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:01 pm

Maple90 wrote:Is Cornell a regional school?

With the vast majority of its class taking jobs in NY, are Cornell's job statistics a byproduct of self selection due to its location near the largest legal market, or is it a regional school (with the exception being for those with strong ties elsewhere)?


The general consensus is that all schools are regional outside of HYS.

If you're targeting SoCal, it would probably make more sense to attend UCLA than Cornell. However, I would think really hard about the likelihood of getting SoCal Big law.

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rwe13
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby rwe13 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:22 pm

From someone facing a very similar situation: matching offers from USC and Cornell and exclusively interested in SoCal but lived here my whole life-USC won out for me. I would imagine it could be done from Cornell but with more initiative/legwork

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MagicMike80
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby MagicMike80 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:25 pm

As someone who lived in SoCal for three years before law school and thought that would be enough of a connection to end up back there from HYS, getting into SoCal biglaw is difficult if you're not born and bred. If you're interviewing with attorneys from DC, NY, even SV/SF, you're more likely to be talking to someone who also transplanted to be in that market / at that firm. Having eventually forced my way in for 2L summer, I don't think its incredibly realistic to go to Cornell and presume one will get a biglaw position in SoCal from there.

As to the question here, Cornell has stellar job numbers compared to UCLA/USC, but there is probably not a significant advantage, and quite possibly a disadvantage, when it comes to the actual jobs you want. Going to Cornell for sticker debt (or anything above half - TL;DR) is only justifiable if working in NYC biglaw is a perfectly acceptable outcome. Getting another point or two on the LSAT and going to Berkeley, even at much higher cost, sounds much more in line with your goals.

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koval
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby koval » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:37 pm

I'm a 1L from Cornell. In terms of what you want to do, I know a couple people here who are going back to CA, but they're all pretty much from CA. There's a lot of CA people here, but, what you said about self selection does apply on some level. People who wanted to go back to CA, or IL or wherever, get here and then ultimately go with NY because it's sooooo much easier to get a job in NY coming from Cornell than it is to go back home.

I would never recommend going to UCLA/USC over Cornell because you're essentially cutting your biglaw chances in half. Even though you say that you want to go into PI, going straight into PI is crazy difficult (even at places like NYU). Plus, at least a few places (DOJ, USAO) recommend, from my conversations with people who work there, going into biglaw and then lateraling in. Something to consider.

sheishkabob
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby sheishkabob » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:51 pm

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I would also like some input on this. Cornell gave me a substantial scholarship (126k), whereas Berk only gave me some need-based aid (~24k) that will likely be renewed my 2L year, but substantially reduced by 3L year with a 2L summer associate position. Would Berk be advised if I definitely want SoCal Big Law? Or Cornell with the major discount? Would I have to be top 3rd of my class to get SoCal Big Law from Cornell?

To add to this, I've been born and raised in SoCal (attending undergrad here too) and have had several legal jobs here as well (so ties are a non-issue).

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rpupkin
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:57 pm

sheishkabob wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I would also like some input on this. Cornell gave me a substantial scholarship (126k), whereas Berk only gave me some need-based aid (~24k) that will likely be renewed my 2L year, but substantially reduced by 3L year. Would Berk be advised if I definitely want SoCal Big Law? Or Cornell with the major discount? Would I have to be top 3rd of my class to get SoCal Big Law from Cornell?

To add to this, I've been born and raised in SoCal (attending undergrad here too) and have had several legal jobs here as well (so ties are a non-issue).

What's the total COA difference? Cornell charges about $10K more per year than Berk for tuition. If Berkeley knocks down your need-based aid to $12k in your third year, that means you'd be getting about $60K in aid from them. Once you factor in Berkeley's somehwhat higher cost of living and Cornell's higher tuition, it looks like Berkeley will cost you about $40K more over three years. In my opinion, that is worth it for someone who is set on California big law.

Do not go to Cornell unless you're comfortable with the idea of working in NYC big law for at least a few years.
Last edited by rpupkin on Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:57 pm

sheishkabob wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I would also like some input on this. Cornell gave me a substantial scholarship (126k), whereas Berk only gave me some need-based aid (~24k) that will likely be renewed my 2L year, but substantially reduced by 3L year with a 2L summer associate position. Would Berk be advised if I definitely want SoCal Big Law? Or Cornell with the major discount? Would I have to be top 3rd of my class to get SoCal Big Law from Cornell?

To add to this, I've been born and raised in SoCal (attending undergrad here too) and have had several legal jobs here as well (so ties are a non-issue).

I'd go ahead and make your own choosing thread. Be sure to include the full cost of attendance for each and your UCLA/USC offers as well.

sheishkabob
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby sheishkabob » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:27 pm

rpupkin wrote:
sheishkabob wrote:Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I would also like some input on this. Cornell gave me a substantial scholarship (126k), whereas Berk only gave me some need-based aid (~24k) that will likely be renewed my 2L year, but substantially reduced by 3L year. Would Berk be advised if I definitely want SoCal Big Law? Or Cornell with the major discount? Would I have to be top 3rd of my class to get SoCal Big Law from Cornell?

To add to this, I've been born and raised in SoCal (attending undergrad here too) and have had several legal jobs here as well (so ties are a non-issue).

What's the total COA difference? Cornell charges about $10K more per year than Berk for tuition. If Berkeley knocks down your need-based aid to $12k in your third year, that means you'd be getting about $60K in aid from them. Once you factor in Berkeley's somehwhat higher cost of living and Cornell's higher tuition, it looks like Berkeley will cost you about $40K more over three years. In my opinion, that is worth it for someone who is set on California big law.

Do not go to Cornell unless you're comfortable with the idea of working in NYC big law for at least a few years.


Factoring in an estimate of ~10k need based aid for 3L year + 3L summer earnings (so probably substantially reduced cost of living loans 3L year) total debt from Berk will be between ~175k-190K. Cornell would be 120k-145k. Really, really adverse to NYC but I'm not sure how much that's worth monetarily

If I would have to be top 3rd or higher to CA Big Law, then Cornell is very risky for me. Would being around median be a for sure strike out for CA?

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rpupkin
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:29 pm

sheishkabob wrote:Factoring in an estimate of ~10k need based aid for 3L year + 3L summer earnings (so probably substantially reduced cost of living loans 3L year) total debt from Berk will be between ~175k-190K. Cornell would be 120k-145k. Really, really adverse to NYC but I'm not sure how much that's worth monetarily

Then don't go to Cornell. I'm not saying you should definitely go to Berkeley, but definitely don't go to Cornell.

sheishkabob
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby sheishkabob » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:29 pm

I had made a choosing thread a while ago, but I'll get around to posting another one today

sheishkabob
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby sheishkabob » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:32 pm

rpupkin wrote:
sheishkabob wrote:Factoring in an estimate of ~10k need based aid for 3L year + 3L summer earnings (so probably substantially reduced cost of living loans 3L year) total debt from Berk will be between ~175k-190K. Cornell would be 120k-145k. Really, really adverse to NYC but I'm not sure how much that's worth monetarily

Then don't go to Cornell. I'm not saying you should definitely go to Berkeley, but definitely don't go to Cornell.


I guess I should clarify. I wouldn't spontaneously combust if I end up in NYC, but I want the chances of CA to be as high as possible with the best cost. If Cornell's CA placement is only accessible to the top 3rd, then I think I'm out/that's too risky. If they dip below the top 3rd, then I think it would be less risky. I also have a sizeable scholly to Michigan (114,500)...not sure if that should be in play over Cornell

sheishkabob
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby sheishkabob » Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:44 pm

Alright, made a choosing thread here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=246648

KangarooCourt13
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Re: Is Cornell a regional school?

Postby KangarooCourt13 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:12 pm

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but my buddy who goes to Cornell is summering at a big firm in San Fran. He does have connections there though...




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