W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

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Long Island Law
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W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:08 am

I'm a prospective Law School student from Long Island hoping to work in a law firm in New York City or Boston post-graduation.

Undergrad GPA: 3.55
LSAT: 172 [only took once]

William & Marry is offering $29,000 [Cost of attendance = $30,000 per year]
Vanderbilt is offering $15,000 [Cost of attendance = $50,000 per year]
Fordham is offering $40,000 [Cost of attendance = $15,000 per year]
USC is offering $30,000 [Cost of attendance = $40,000 - $50,000 per year]
UCLA is offering $30,000 [Cost of attendance = $40,000 - $50,000 per year]
Boston College is offering $25,000 [Cost of attendance = $41,000 per year]

The prospect of the amount of debt some of these schools would require me to take on is very intimidating, so I'm looking for some advice. Is the much higher price at a school like Vanderbilt, with a much better national reputation, worth it? My parents are able to help me with about $15,000 per year worth of spending, but after that I would have to take on the debt myself. That is why Fordham is such an appealing school to me, because I would be able to leave without any kind of crippling debt.

As I briefly mentioned above, I would like to work in a corporate firm in New York City (or maybe Boston?), and I have interned with one large firm for the last four summers so I think I might have an "in" there. I will be interning there again this summer, so I am doing my best to keep up my connections for when I hopefully earn my J.D. Any advice for how to achieve this goal would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Long Island Law on Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Winston1984
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Winston1984 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:17 am

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

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eriedoctrine
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby eriedoctrine » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:22 am

You want to work in Boston. Where is BU/BC?

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:24 am

Winston1984 wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT


Updated with the appropriate info. Thank you. :)

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:26 am

eriedoctrine wrote:You want to work in Boston. Where is BU/BC?


Boston College is offering me $25,000 per year, so my cost of attendance there would be $41,000 per year. I have added that to my OP.

New York is definitely preferable to Boston in terms of job placement for me though.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:27 am

Can you calculate the total cost of attending each over three years (including accumulated interest for debt and tuition increases)? Not trying to be picky, just makes it a lot easier for us.

CanadianWolf
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:28 am

Because you're targeting NYC & Boston, USC & UCLA should not receive much consideration. Fordham seems to be your best option, in my opinion.

BigZuck
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby BigZuck » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:30 am

It's hard to tell what your debt would be and for your own sake you need to calculate that. Include everything: tuition, cost of living, loan origination fees, interest, etc. and then subtract scholarship amounts and parental assistance.

None of these look very appealing. And I'm doubting Vandy has more national pull than a school like UCLA. I doubt NYC firms view it as significantly better. Neither are a very good choice for NYC.

What would your debt be at Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, etc?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:32 am

Would you be living at home if you go to Fordham? Did you apply to NYU?

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:32 am

BigZuck wrote:It's hard to tell what your debt would be and for your own sake you need to calculate that. Include everything: tuition, cost of living, loan origination fees, interest, etc. and then subtract scholarship amounts and parental assistance.

None of these look very appealing. And I'm doubting Vandy has more national pull than a school like UCLA. I doubt NYC firms view it as significantly better. Neither are a very good choice for NYC.

What would your debt be at Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, etc?


I am on the Priority Reserve list at all three of those schools. :(

Tiago Splitter wrote:Would you be living at home if you go to Fordham? Did you apply to NYU?


Yes, my transportation costs are figured into that $15,000 cost of attendance. Which would probably equate to $0 debt for me.

I did apply to NYU and Columbia, but I am still awaiting a decision from them.

BigZuck wrote:It's hard to tell what your debt would be and for your own sake you need to calculate that. Include everything: tuition, cost of living, loan origination fees, interest, etc. and then subtract scholarship amounts and parental assistance.

None of these look very appealing. And I'm doubting Vandy has more national pull than a school like UCLA. I doubt NYC firms view it as significantly better. Neither are a very good choice for NYC.

What would your debt be at Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, etc?


I would probably graduate from Fordham debt free. William and Mary would require about $60,000 in debt. The other schools would likely require debts in the area of $90,000 to $150,000, but I will update with more specific figures.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:36 am

Fordham for little to no debt seems like a clear winner out of these options. Hang tight with NYU though because they could definitely toss you some money later in the cycle and with no living expenses that could end up a better option than Fordham.

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:37 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Fordham for little to no debt seems like a clear winner out of these options. Hang tight with NYU though because they could definitely toss you some money later in the cycle and with no living expenses that could end up a better option than Fordham.


That is what I am doing with regards to NYU. Is it worth my while to try and get in touch with admissions there to ask about my application status, or do I just wait and let them get back to me on their schedule?

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Winston1984
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Winston1984 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:39 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Because you're targeting NYC & Boston, USC & UCLA should not receive much consideration. Fordham seems to be your best option, in my opinion.

Agreed. So you struck out at the entire T14?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:41 am

Long Island Law wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Fordham for little to no debt seems like a clear winner out of these options. Hang tight with NYU though because they could definitely toss you some money later in the cycle and with no living expenses that could end up a better option than Fordham.


That is what I am doing with regards to NYU. Is it worth my while to try and get in touch with admissions there to ask about my application status, or do I just wait and let them get back to me on their schedule?

Part of me says let them know about your upcoming deposit deadlines, but there's really no rush. Some people have gotten big money off the waitlist at NYU in recent years and with their huge class I feel like being the only option left at the end of the game of musical chairs can be a good thing.

Also hang tight with Columbia and write an LOCI if you get waitlisted, but they tend not to be as good with money so they're probably out. No reason to give up yet though.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby zombie mcavoy » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:44 am

did you apply super late? you should have much better options with these numbers

I would sit out a cycle and try again, if so.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:45 am

Long Island Law wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Would you be living at home if you go to Fordham? Did you apply to NYU?


Yes, my transportation costs are figured into that $15,000 cost of attendance. Which would probably equate to $0 debt for me.


But Fordham estimates it's cost of attendance for this year (not 2015-2016, 2014-2015) at $79,674 without health insurance. Take out $20k you save by living at home at you're around $59k. With the likely tuition increase for 2015 it's probably more like $62k. And then with tuition increases for the next two years it's probably $64.5k and then $67k.

So taking into account your scholarship ($40k/year) and your parents' expect contribution ($15k/yr) you're still looking at coming up with ~$30k.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:47 am

(Which is probably a manageable amount to take out and worthwhile for Fordham, just want to make sure you're being realistic about costs.)

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:51 am

Winston1984 wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Because you're targeting NYC & Boston, USC & UCLA should not receive much consideration. Fordham seems to be your best option, in my opinion.

Agreed. So you struck out at the entire T14?


Seems like it. I'm on reserve lists for Columbia, Duke, Cornell, and Northwestern though.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:54 am

zombie mcavoy wrote:did you apply super late? you should have much better options with these numbers

I would sit out a cycle and try again, if so.

Agreed. Given your numbers would absolutely think you'd be offered $$ at Cornell, which would be well-suited to your interests.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:55 am

zombie mcavoy wrote:did you apply super late? you should have much better options with these numbers

I would sit out a cycle and try again, if so.

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:55 am

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
Long Island Law wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Would you be living at home if you go to Fordham? Did you apply to NYU?


Yes, my transportation costs are figured into that $15,000 cost of attendance. Which would probably equate to $0 debt for me.


But Fordham estimates it's cost of attendance for this year (not 2015-2016, 2014-2015) at $79,674 without health insurance. Take out $20k you save by living at home at you're around $59k. With the likely tuition increase for 2015 it's probably more like $62k. And then with tuition increases for the next two years it's probably $64.5k and then $67k.

So taking into account your scholarship ($40k/year) and your parents' expect contribution ($15k/yr) you're still looking at coming up with ~$30k.


I think our math is a little different here? Even if tuition goes up to $67,000 in my third year [which seems a little high] thats -$40,000 for scholarship and - $15,000 from parental contributions = $12,000

Obviously that doesn't include textbooks and other fees, but I don't think that's going to add up to $18,000.

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:56 am

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:did you apply super late? you should have much better options with these numbers

I would sit out a cycle and try again, if so.

Agreed. Given your numbers would absolutely think you'd be offered $$ at Cornell, which would be well-suited to your interests.


Having already been rejected this go around, would that not hurt my chances for admission the second time?

BigZuck
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby BigZuck » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:59 am

Once again:
OhBoyOhBortles wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:did you apply super late?

Long Island Law
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Long Island Law » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:01 pm

BigZuck wrote:Once again:
OhBoyOhBortles wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:did you apply super late?


I don't think so? What qualifies as "Super late"?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: W&M v. Vanderbilt v. Fordham v. USC

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:02 pm

Long Island Law wrote:Having already been rejected this go around, would that not hurt my chances for admission the second time?

Well first of all you haven't been rejected, but even if you had I'm not sure what they could do to you next cycle that's worse than just reject you again.

But I don't hate Fordham here. Normally Fordham is tough to justify but with the ability to live at home and 40k/year it's totally defensible.




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