Colorado vs Illinois

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happyendings
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Colorado vs Illinois

Postby happyendings » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:15 pm

Colorado: $110k; 30k, 10k, 10k spread out for three years
Illinois: $65k; received full-tuition scholarship

Disregarding the amount of scholarships for both schools, which school is better for employment? I'm interested in soft IP. Colorado is obviously the top school in the Mountain region. Illinois is in competition with UChicago and Northwestern in Illinois, but it seems to have better employment rates on LST. I really don't care where I live. I just want to earn a good salary after law school.

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT:

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
Loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
I'm from Los Angeles, and I would like to work in this area, but obviously, that's not going to happen with my current school choices. I went to a top 3 liberal arts college in MA. I got accepted to BC, but I don't think I'll get any money from them with my stats.

-Your general career goals
Soft IP

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
161/3.39

-How many times you have taken the LSAT
twice, cancelled the first time. Please don't tell me to retake.
Last edited by happyendings on Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:23 pm

We can't give good advice yet; need more information.

But if you're only trying to become a lawyer to make a lot money, turn back now.

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

BigZuck
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby BigZuck » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:21 pm

You need to start caring where you live. Because employers are going to care whether you care and being "Eh, yeah, whatevs, just gimme a job and I'll do it" is a recipe for not getting a job.

Wingtip88
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby Wingtip88 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:52 pm

OP - graduates from these schools very often start their careers earning $55k or less in small firms or in government, and often outside of big metropolitan areas. Would such an arrangement be suitable with regards to your being happy/able to make progress against your loans? $110k in debt from a school like Colorado could be problematic. You need to look at student loan payment calculators to get a clear picture of what your monthly bill is going to be.

Furthermore, ties are important here and need to be part of your considering any "regional" school as UIUC or Colorado. I don't know anything about Colorado, but U of I is far from a sure bet to a "good salary" (at least relative to $65K in student debt) or employment in or near Chicago (where every transplant into the Midwest hopes like hell to end up).

happyendings
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby happyendings » Sun Apr 12, 2015 10:56 pm

BigZuck wrote:You need to start caring where you live. Because employers are going to care whether you care and being "Eh, yeah, whatevs, just gimme a job and I'll do it" is a recipe for not getting a job.


When I talk about not caring about where I'll live, I mean I'll live in Colorado if I go to Colorado and vice versa for Illinois. I meant I don't care about which state I'll eventually end up in. Both states seem like great places to live.

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Rigo
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:55 pm

Take the money and go to Illinois.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:04 am

Rigo wrote:Take the money and go to Illinois.

well, sure, colorado is silly at that debt. But even with this debt level, you shouldn't advise someone to go to UIUC who has no ties to the Midwest, and OP still hasn't told us where he is from. If he isn't among the lucky few who get Chicago biglaw, if he's is not a midwesterner and has no truly compelling reason to be there, he is not going to be in a good situation. You wouldn't tell a kid from New Hampshire it's a solid move to go to SMU; so far as we know, that's pretty much what's going on here.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:09 am

happyendings wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You need to start caring where you live. Because employers are going to care whether you care and being "Eh, yeah, whatevs, just gimme a job and I'll do it" is a recipe for not getting a job.


When I talk about not caring about where I'll live, I mean I'll live in Colorado if I go to Colorado and vice versa for Illinois. I meant I don't care about which state I'll eventually end up in. Both states seem like great places to live.

That's not what he means. Non-biglaw employers (what you are looking at from these schools, in all probability) don't really care whether you think their region seems to be a pleasant place to live. Grades are not as big of a consideration as ties, and if you don't have any, and don't have a compelling reason to be there, you're at a serious disadvantage to your classmates.

Also, have you been to the not-Chicago portions of Illinois? If not, maybe go on a little tour before committing to that statement.

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Rigo
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby Rigo » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:09 am

zombie mcavoy wrote:
Rigo wrote:Take the money and go to Illinois.

well, sure, colorado is silly at that debt. But even with this debt level, you shouldn't advise someone to go to UIUC who has no ties to the Midwest, and OP still hasn't told us where he is from. If he isn't among the lucky few who get Chicago biglaw, if he's is not a midwesterner and has no truly compelling reason to be there, he is not going to be in a good situation. You wouldn't tell a kid from New Hampshire it's a solid move to go to SMU; so far as we know, that's pretty much what's going on here.

I agree with all of this.
However, if OP is stubborn and lacks ties to both, then Illinois is the better choice.

BigZuck
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:17 am

Rigo wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:
Rigo wrote:Take the money and go to Illinois.

well, sure, colorado is silly at that debt. But even with this debt level, you shouldn't advise someone to go to UIUC who has no ties to the Midwest, and OP still hasn't told us where he is from. If he isn't among the lucky few who get Chicago biglaw, if he's is not a midwesterner and has no truly compelling reason to be there, he is not going to be in a good situation. You wouldn't tell a kid from New Hampshire it's a solid move to go to SMU; so far as we know, that's pretty much what's going on here.

I agree with all of this.
However, if OP is stubborn and lacks ties to both, then Illinois is the better choice.

You're about to get a self-mutilation metaphor/analogy

Just a head's up

Wingtip88
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby Wingtip88 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:23 am

zombie mcavoy wrote:Also, have you been to the not-Chicago portions of Illinois? If not, maybe go on a little tour before committing to that statement.


Come on, who wouldn't want to live and work in lovely Bourbonnais!

Hell, we even have a Manhattan, IL. I'm sure OP would love it.

happyendings
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby happyendings » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:42 am

Thanks for the input. I guess I have a lot to think about.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:46 am

happyendings wrote:Thanks for the input. I guess I have a lot to think about.

If you want to give us all of the information I asked for above, we are more than happy to help you formulate a solid plan of attack.

happyendings
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby happyendings » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:02 am

Well, I updated my original post if that helps.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:59 am

You're from LA and went to a top LAC in MA. Sounds like ur rich and if so hire an LSAT tutor or something. If you go to Illinois odds are you'll be working shitlaw/low level govt work in central or southern Illinois which I'm also guessing youve probably never been to and probably don't want to live in forever.

either retake or don't go

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:34 am

happyendings wrote:Well, I updated my original post if that helps.

It does: you can't attend either of these schools and be in a realistic position to achieve your goals.

You went to a top LAC, you want (sexy) firm work in SoCal, you didn't break a 161, and you don't want to consider a retake? Does not compute. If you are actually incapable of getting a significantly better score, which I have a hard time believing, or if you do not have the work ethic and drive to put in the time to do this right, you need to find another profession. The LSAT is nothing compared to the work required to get a crack at these goals.

Two schools make sense for what you want: UCLA and USC. UCLA is going to be harder money-wise b/c of your low GPA, but USC should give you a six figure scholarship if you get up to the 168+ range. That is your new goal. You've got six months until the October test. Get the resources you need to do better (the LSAT forum on this site is a very good place to start), and get to work. In the meantime, get a job in LA and start saving up some money.

happyendings
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby happyendings » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:47 am

zombie mcavoy wrote:
happyendings wrote:Well, I updated my original post if that helps.

It does: you can't attend either of these schools and be in a realistic position to achieve your goals.

You went to a top LAC, you want (sexy) firm work in SoCal, you didn't break a 161, and you don't want to consider a retake? Does not compute. If you are actually incapable of getting a significantly better score, which I have a hard time believing, or if you do not have the work ethic and drive to put in the time to do this right, you need to find another profession. The LSAT is nothing compared to the work required to get a crack at these goals.

Two schools make sense for what you want: UCLA and USC. UCLA is going to be harder money-wise b/c of your low GPA, but USC should give you a six figure scholarship if you get up to the 168+ range. That is your new goal. You've got six months until the October test. Get the resources you need to do better (the LSAT forum on this site is a very good place to start), and get to work. In the meantime, get a job in LA and start saving up some money.



It's not so much that I don't want to study but rather, I don't want to take another year off. I definitely have plans to transfer in the back of my mind, so there is that.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Colorado vs Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:08 am

happyendings wrote:It's not so much that I don't want to study but rather, I don't want to take another year off. I definitely have plans to transfer in the back of my mind, so there is that.

One year is nothing. This is a 40 year career you are building. The track you are on from the day you pass the bar largely determines the path of your career, and the school you matriculate at (largely as a result of your LSAT score), largely determines where you are as a fresh graduate.

Transferring is a terrible thing to plan for. You are going to need killer grades to transfer anywhere worthwhile, and if you couldn't even break 161 on the LSAT, why do you think you are going to be significantly better at law school than the vast majority of your equally-qualified classmates? Even if you do get great grades, transferring to UCLA or USC is pretty much out of the question, as it needs to be at sticker, and transfer OCI prospects + 200K in debt is not a safe gamble. And Berkeley at that debt is not ideal; you'd be better off gunning for (transactional) Chicago biglaw, which doesn't sound like the direction you want your life to go. Basically, the work required to put you in the position you want to be in is far, far easier on the front end.

It's your life, and UIUC is not the end of the world here, as that's not a life-ruining level of debt if all else fails, but you can do much better for your situation. Good luck.




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