University of Illinois vs Wash U

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boognish42
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University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby boognish42 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:38 pm

-The schools you are considering: UIUC, WashU

WashU COA: $80,000 after $144,000 scholarship
UIUC COA: $70,000 after full tuition scholarship

-How you will be financing your COA: 75% Loans 25% Savings

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any): Chicago

-Your general career goals: Practice IP Law

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers: 171/3.2

-How many times you have taken the LSAT: Once

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sublime
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby sublime » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:21 pm

..

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby zombie mcavoy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:31 pm

Tough call. Both are fine, though.

Make WUSTL give you a fully. Just ask relentlessly. When and if they do it, I might lean towards that, but personal preference probably wins here either way.

Wingtip88
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby Wingtip88 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:50 pm

$55-60k COA seems more likely for UIUC with a full tuition scholarship, unless you insist on getting the most expensive one bedroom apartment you can find.

In fact, a small percentage of students get the $3,800 or so in annual fees covered by scholarship as well. I'd try asking admissions if they'll increase. They told me no, but then again I don't have a 171 LSAT :O)

CanadianWolf
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:04 pm

Any post-college work experience ? If so, did you apply to Northwestern ? Regardless of the answer, a full tuition scholarship at Illinois is a great option. Ask WashUStL to match it.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LittleLaw
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby LittleLaw » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:07 pm

If Chicago is your main target I think Illinois has the edge. If you would be happy with Chicago or STL Wash U gets the nod. Both would be reasonable options at this price. I'll also echo that Illinois would be cheaper than 70k because of low cost of living.

boognish42
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby boognish42 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:19 pm

Thanks everyone. WUSTL has already bumped me up from $114,000 to $144,000, so I'm not sure if they would do any more, I guess it never hurts to ask. I did apply to Northwestern and am on hold. I am doing what I can to get in there, but I would still need a little money if I did.

I have been out of school and working for 7 years.

boognish42
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby boognish42 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:20 pm

Also, thanks for pointing out the lower cost at UIUC, I tried to overestimate because people seem to really catch hell on here for doing the opposite.

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Rigo
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:25 pm

I'd go UIUC here, but both are defensible.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby zombie mcavoy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:29 pm

boognish42 wrote:Thanks everyone. WUSTL has already bumped me up from $114,000 to $144,000, so I'm not sure if they would do any more, I guess it never hurts to ask. I did apply to Northwestern and am on hold. I am doing what I can to get in there, but I would still need a little money if I did.

I have been out of school and working for 7 years.

That in no way closes off negotiations. A friend of mine had his scholarship changed literally four (I think it may have even been five) times for WUSTL. That was last cycle. Like I said, be relentless. You have nothing to lose, and you're never going to speak to these people again once you start.

Also, don't worry about "catching hell" or anything around here, we are here because we want to help.

boognish42
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby boognish42 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:35 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:
boognish42 wrote:Thanks everyone. WUSTL has already bumped me up from $114,000 to $144,000, so I'm not sure if they would do any more, I guess it never hurts to ask. I did apply to Northwestern and am on hold. I am doing what I can to get in there, but I would still need a little money if I did.

I have been out of school and working for 7 years.

That in no way closes off negotiations. A friend of mine had his scholarship changed literally four (I think it may have even been five) times for WUSTL. That was last cycle. Like I said, be relentless. You have nothing to lose, and you're never going to speak to these people again once you start.

Also, don't worry about "catching hell" or anything around here, we are here because we want to help.

Wow, that is good to know. And thanks again.

Wingtip88
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby Wingtip88 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:38 pm

You should really investigate what cost of living at St Louis and Champaign Urbana are, and then use the Financial Worksheets over on Law School Transparency. They give you the real total debt load based on your estimated budget and include loan fees, accrued interest, etc.

monkeysez
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby monkeysez » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:52 pm

3L at UIUC here. AMA. Chicago biglaw recruits heavily at UIUC for IP. What's your undergrad degree in?

boognish42
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby boognish42 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:59 pm

monkeysez wrote:3L at UIUC here. AMA. Chicago biglaw recruits heavily at UIUC for IP. What's your undergrad degree in?

I have a BS in chemistry. I have received a lot of mixed information as to whether a BS in chemistry is good enough for IP. I have looked into it and I qualify to sit for the patent bar. Most of the people I have talked to first hand in the industry say it is enough, but a lot of what I read around here says you pretty much need to be an engineer or have a phd.

sparty99
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby sparty99 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:03 am

boognish42 wrote:Thanks everyone. WUSTL has already bumped me up from $114,000 to $144,000, so I'm not sure if they would do any more, I guess it never hurts to ask. I did apply to Northwestern and am on hold. I am doing what I can to get in there, but I would still need a little money if I did.

I have been out of school and working for 7 years.


You should retake unless WUSTL gives you a full-ride. WUSTL is being cheap and hoping you are a sissy and take the bait. With a 172 LSAT I bet they give you a full-ride if you ask for more. Ask for more all the way up to enrollment.

monkeysez
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby monkeysez » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:05 am

My friend who went big law does have a PHD in chemistry. But, if you get good grades your 1L year I'm sure your chemistry degree will suit you just fine. Champaign is a small town, cheap cost of living, and lots of bars. The law school community is great, people are laid back and it is not cutt throat.

The bad is the facilities. Wash U is a beautiful campus, the law building here is not so great. They are doing some remodeling this summer...so that should help a bit.

What do you want to know?

Also, if you can take the patent bar your 2L summer you'd be ahead of the curve.

Another thought...UIUC is expanding their Chicago program where you can spend a semester there taking classes, working, and networking.

boognish42
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby boognish42 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:16 am

monkeysez wrote:My friend who went big law does have a PHD in chemistry. But, if you get good grades your 1L year I'm sure your chemistry degree will suit you just fine. Champaign is a small town, cheap cost of living, and lots of bars. The law school community is great, people are laid back and it is not cutt throat.

The bad is the facilities. Wash U is a beautiful campus, the law building here is not so great. They are doing some remodeling this summer...so that should help a bit.

What do you want to know?

Also, if you can take the patent bar your 2L summer you'd be ahead of the curve.

Big law would be nice to have as an option, but it is not necessary since I should be taking on little debt. What are job prospects looking like for the people outside of big law? From all of the research I have done it seems like UIUC places pretty well.

I might also have some questions about where to live that will be a little bit away from the undergraduate crowd.

sparty99
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby sparty99 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:27 am

boognish42 wrote:
monkeysez wrote:My friend who went big law does have a PHD in chemistry. But, if you get good grades your 1L year I'm sure your chemistry degree will suit you just fine. Champaign is a small town, cheap cost of living, and lots of bars. The law school community is great, people are laid back and it is not cutt throat.

The bad is the facilities. Wash U is a beautiful campus, the law building here is not so great. They are doing some remodeling this summer...so that should help a bit.

What do you want to know?

Also, if you can take the patent bar your 2L summer you'd be ahead of the curve.

Big law would be nice to have as an option, but it is not necessary since I should be taking on little debt. What are job prospects looking like for the people outside of big law? From all of the research I have done it seems like UIUC places pretty well.

I might also have some questions about where to live that will be a little bit away from the undergraduate crowd.


The job prospects are pretty shitty outside of Big Law unless you get a federal clerkship or a prosecutor type gig.

8823
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby 8823 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:58 pm

I'm also debating between WashU and UIUC. I have an interest in International Law, and WashU seems to have a strong program for that. However, similar to boognish42, I also received full-tuition scholarship for UIUC, which makes it very tempting from a financial perspective (all factors considered, WashU is about 20K more expensive per year for me). Are there any current 2L or 3L at either school who could maybe talk a bit more about these programs? The websites make everything sound very appealing, but what is it like based on your experience?

Wingtip88
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby Wingtip88 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:23 pm

sparty99 wrote:The job prospects are pretty shitty outside of Big Law unless you get a federal clerkship or a prosecutor type gig.


A touch harsh, but not completely off base. There are a decent percentage of UIUC kids (and probably WashU as well) earning south of $55k at their first jobs, and grads of both schools have ended up in doc review or in foreclosure mills, etc. Things seem to be on the upswing generally speaking and the placement stats are all online. Attending either of these schools still carries a mention worthy amount of risk.

monkeysez
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby monkeysez » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:22 pm

Shitty is an overstatement. If you have average grades, want to practice in the midwest and are willing to move outside of Chicago, you can find employment. Lots of firms in Central and Southern Illinois, Indiana, Wisconson, and other places. You'll be making around $45-55k out of law school.

If you want to go out of the midwest, absolutely don't go to UIUC. Finding a job will be nearly impossible before graduation. Career services is a joke.

What I like about UIUC is the clinical programs, where you can represent real clients as a law student. I found that experience tremendous. If you are interested in bankruptcy law, absolutely come to UIUC. We have a great program and connections for that.

Regarding international law, what do you mean by that. International Business? Ehh, I don't see any recent grads doing that really unless you have foreign language abilities. We have a lot of Chinese and Korean students that come to do an LLM here, so you can make great contacts that way if that is what you want to do.

If you want to do treaties, constitutions, and the like, you're better off at a DC school.

sparty99
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Re: University of Illinois vs Wash U

Postby sparty99 » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:22 pm

monkeysez wrote:Shitty is an overstatement. If you have average grades, want to practice in the midwest and are willing to move outside of Chicago, you can find employment. Lots of firms in Central and Southern Illinois, Indiana, Wisconson, and other places. You'll be making around $45-55k out of law school.

If you want to go out of the midwest, absolutely don't go to UIUC. Finding a job will be nearly impossible before graduation. Career services is a joke.

What I like about UIUC is the clinical programs, where you can represent real clients as a law student. I found that experience tremendous. If you are interested in bankruptcy law, absolutely come to UIUC. We have a great program and connections for that.

Regarding international law, what do you mean by that. International Business? Ehh, I don't see any recent grads doing that really unless you have foreign language abilities. We have a lot of Chinese and Korean students that come to do an LLM here, so you can make great contacts that way if that is what you want to do.

If you want to do treaties, constitutions, and the like, you're better off at a DC school.


As I stated, shitty job prospects. $45-55k is horrible especially if its a 5 person private practice firm in Chicago and they want you to bill 1,800 hours. Furthermore, every Top 100 school has clinical programs. You also don't choose a law school because of its clinical programs. Lastly, lots of firms in Central Illinois and Southern Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin? Hmmm. If you want to make $30k to $50k living in Springfield then perhaps UIUC is a great school. Or $30-50k living in Beloit, Wisconsin. Or Muncie, Indiana.




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