Tulane vs. Fordham Forum

[chuckbass]

We were all so proud of reaching someone, but it turns out you're a potato. Good luck, follow your dreams.

[zombie mcavoy]

But I'd be graduating two years earlier than if I apply again this cycle!

and it might sound silly, but I do really miss school and am jealous of all their law textbooks

do you think I am a little girl stumping her feet? cause I am

so what

what's the rush for? you're not going to get a good job from pepperdine. It doesn't matter what you do in law school; nobody gets good jobs from pepperdine because no employers respect pepperdine. Spending 120K on Pepperdine is fucking absurd and indefensible. THere is no sound argument you could make against that statement.

Also you said you have no idea what you want to do as an attorney, other than making money. Waiting a year and going to a school that shouldn't be boarded up, even though it costs two years of earning power, is a far better investment.

And yeah it does sound silly. If you're looking for an "academic environment" where you will "grow as a person and as an intellectual" or something like that, get an MA. I've only gotten dumber since starting ls; this is mind-numbing garbage, generally. I suppose I've learned a few random latin phrases that I could work into daily conversation. You could buy a law textbook to set on your table at starbucks!

ETA:

We were all so proud of reaching someone, but it turns out you're a potato. Good luck, follow your dreams.

Yeah. I was going to post this thread in that thread yesterday where some newer poaster was like, "really, do you guys ever get through to people and help them not make decisions that are stupid as fuck?" But maybe he was right.

[BigZuck]

If you want to make a decision that you know is bad and can't even fully convince yourself that it's not but you're still going to try anyway cuz (you're lazy? bipolar? I can't really tell what the reason is) then by all means go for it.

Ultimately of course it's your life and the grim reality is that no one here is really going to lose sleep over you making a poor choice but people did give an earnest shot and took time out of their day to help you make the best life decision possible. Still I think I speak for TLS when I say that we can't really sit here and go back and forth with you on it, we did our best and now you've gotta live the life that you want.

Good luck.

eta: And yeah, if school is what you miss law school is definitely not for you. Obviously I haven't taken a class in every single subject possible so there's probably worse stuff out there but as someone who genuinely enjoys school and learning, law school is the least intellectually stimulating school experience I have ever had. The whole teaching model is terrible and law profs are the worst and the stuff you have to read is generally terrible and it's mostly pointless and dumb.

[zxbn579]

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[Hand]

Keep reading this thread in case your conviction wavers. Pepperdine is awful. And remind yourself of this:

(when I told my mom about it, she was like "what, pepper time?")

Your mom is right.

[eriedoctrine]

For the love of god, retake.

[zxbn579]

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[timbs4339]

I pile on with all the advice ITT. Just for context, 25 is definitely not too old. I knew someone who went to law school in his late-40s after having an entirely different career and he wasn't the oldest person in my law school class by far. Also knew a number of people in their 30s.

Law school isn't a great learning environment both because of the way it is taught (one-on-one pissing matches where the professors try to trick and embarrass you in front of the whole class to cover up the fact they are too lazy to do any real teaching) and because of the constant stress about performing well-enough to get a good job. Not saying this will happen to you but there's a reason why the rates of depression/anxiety in law students skyrocket from 1L to 3L year.

[Other25BeforeYou]

In case you need more convincing, raising your LSAT up to 170 would make a lot of difference in terms of money. A good outcome at Pepperdine would probably be a $60k/yr job. An average outcome at a school to which you could probably get a decent scholarship with your GPA and a 170 would be a biglaw job. If you stayed in biglaw (and take bonuses into account), you'd make more than a million dollars more in your first 7 years of practice than you would coming out of Pepperdine. Even if you only stayed in biglaw for three years, that's at least $350k more over just three years, and you would likely have much better exit options coming out of biglaw. Seems well worth waiting another year.

[NoBladesNoBows]

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[zxbn579]

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[Clearly]

Yeah. I was going to post this thread in that thread yesterday where some newer poaster was like, "really, do you guys ever get through to people and help them not make decisions that are stupid as fuck?" But maybe he was right.

Bro you've been here for like a month, maybe give it some time. Also in that very thread I commented personally about being someone who it got through to, and that poster later messaged me for advice retaking.

[chuckbass]

Yeah. I was going to post this thread in that thread yesterday where some newer poaster was like, "really, do you guys ever get through to people and help them not make decisions that are stupid as fuck?" But maybe he was right.

Bro you've been here for like a month, maybe give it some time. Also in that very thread I commented personally about being someone who it got through to, and that poster later messaged me for advice retaking.

Lol tbf he's an alt and he's been around.

[Clearly]

Yeah. I was going to post this thread in that thread yesterday where some newer poaster was like, "really, do you guys ever get through to people and help them not make decisions that are stupid as fuck?" But maybe he was right.

Bro you've been here for like a month, maybe give it some time. Also in that very thread I commented personally about being someone who it got through to, and that poster later messaged me for advice retaking.

Lol tbf he's an alt and he's been around.

Then I take back the first sentence, but not the later stuff lol

[zxbn579]

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[zxbn579]

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[chuckbass]

Ultimately of course it's your life and the grim reality is that no one here is really going to lose sleep over you making a poor choice but people did give an earnest shot and took time out of their day to help you make the best life decision possible. Still I think I speak for TLS when I say that we can't really sit here and go back and forth with you on it, we did our best and now you've gotta live the life that you want.

[Clearly]

Someone posted this in the Tulane Class of 2018 admitted students group today:
http://www.law.tulane.edu/uploadedFiles ... 2-2014.pdf
Just out of curiosity, is that actually a sign of the economy going up? Of more legal jobs in the state of LA?
The poster of course argues that the improved JD job rate (from 52% in 2013 to 62% in 2014) is a great sign for Tulane JDs class of 2018.

Yo you need to stop with this. Remember when you started this post talking about wanting 90k? Whatever increase from terrible to bad tulane is posting in jobs has nothing to do with jobs that make actual money.

The thing is legal salaries aren't on a straight scale like you might expect, in fact no school places many people into jobs that pay 90k at all. You're either making a lot of money, or your not and you're making worse money than you're likely to get without being a lawyer.

Check this out:


See those jobs on the right, with the big dollars, those are big firm jobs and last year only 14% of tulane grads got those jobs.
The increase in jobs you are hearing about, those jobs are on the left side.

Now lets talk money. How do you suppose you'll pay 2k+ a month in loans back, while living, and earning 40k a year, assuming (after nearly a coinflips chance) that you even end up employed as a lawyer at all?

[zxbn579]

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[Clearly]

Someone posted this in the Tulane Class of 2018 admitted students group today:
http://www.law.tulane.edu/uploadedFiles ... 2-2014.pdf
Just out of curiosity, is that actually a sign of the economy going up? Of more legal jobs in the state of LA?
The poster of course argues that the improved JD job rate (from 52% in 2013 to 62% in 2014) is a great sign for Tulane JDs class of 2018.

Yo you need to stop with this. Remember when you started this post talking about wanting 90k? Whatever increase from terrible to bad tulane is posting in jobs has nothing to do with jobs that make actual money.

The thing is legal salaries aren't on a straight scale like you might expect, in fact no school places many people into jobs that pay 90k at all. You're either making a lot of money, or your not and you're making worse money than you're likely to get without being a lawyer.

Check this out:


See those jobs on the right, with the big dollars, those are big firm jobs and last year only 14% of tulane grads got those jobs.
The increase in jobs you are hearing about, those jobs are on the left side.

Now lets talk money. How do you suppose you'll pay 2k+ a month in loans back, while living, and earning 40k a year, assuming (after nearly a coinflips chance) that you even end up employed as a lawyer at all?

I made 45k last year working in art with my liberal arts degree and I could barely make ends meet without having any debt to pay at all. CANNOT imagine paying debt of $1500-2000/month making anything less than 90k; that's the minimum salary I'd want achievable if I am to take more than 100k for school. That's why you were all very helpful in dispelling my delusions about it all. I was lucky enough to not go into debt at all for undergrad and I definitely do not want to make a careless financial decision now, 2 years after graduating, that could disrupt all of my 30s, if not my whole life. It just surprises me that a number of normal kids go to these law schools anyway. Do they just live unhappily forever after? I mean, how do they have kids? How do they enjoy life if the situation is really as grim outside of the top 10?

1) a great deal of them are unhappy
2) at least some of them came from money in the first place
3) for a select few it actually works out
4) most importantly, government assistance.

[NoBladesNoBows]

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[zxbn579]

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[Informative]

I would retake and shoot for a 165+. This will open some more options.

[OneLisfun]

Yeah, I guess you guys are right. I also applied pretty late in the cycle. I was scoring high 160's before my LSAT but had a bad day, so I could work on getting it up to 170 for the June LSAT and applying early in the 15-16 cycle. I am really obstinate and was trying to convince myself that I should just go to law school this year no matter what since I feel so old (I'll be turning 25 soon), but I am going to listen to all of you and as much as I don't want to go into an LSAT mode again, I also don't want to let one score have an awful rippling effect on my life for the next 50 years.

This is the right move. Best of luck. If you still don't get the score you want in June, retake in Sept/Oct. There is really no reason to settle for anything less than UCLA/USC with a good scholarship. And oh, what I'd give to be only 25 again!

Considering the OP's goals, why do you see Fordham as a noticeably worse option than USC/UCLA? The three schools seem to have comparable big law + fed clerk rates (the job OP wants it seems), and OP didn't specifically say he/she needs to live in Cali.

[sd5289]

I just needed one last little kick in the right direction. I'll re-read all of the above if I get some dumb thoughts in the next few days.

I'll add one last thing: the fact that you're turning 25 soon is a non-issue. I'm graduating this spring at 30, gainfully employed in a JD-required Gov't job, with minimal debt. Obviously my being "older" didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Take the time to get yourself in a position to negotiate $$$. Law schools were getting desperate when I went through the application cycle in 2012. From what I hear, they're even more desperate now.