Columbia $$ Vs. Cornell and Michigan ($$$)

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90convoy
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Columbia $$ Vs. Cornell and Michigan ($$$)

Postby 90convoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:50 pm

I already posted this before but I am changing the OP to reflect new offers.

Columbia-COA ~175
Cornell and Michigan-COA ~104

Goals: Biglaw first. Since I believe in having goals, I'm going to gun for entertainment. I have ties to the Chicago area but I know that the entertainment industry really only exists in LA and NYC if that even becomes an option. City rank goes LA>Chi>NYC but this could change.

Is Columbia's higher level of prestige and portability worth the extra 70K?

Thanks!
Last edited by 90convoy on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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LoganCouture
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby LoganCouture » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:58 pm

Hey 90, congrats on all your acceptances...anything from NU?

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90convoy
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby 90convoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:04 pm

Hey thanks! You too. Like really.

I messed up and missed the scholarship deadline. I'm not too happy about that but oh well.

On phone sorry for typos
Last edited by 90convoy on Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:05 pm

What school wouldn't you have to be very ok with NYC big law?

I think that's a T14 thing, not something limited to just Cornell. I'd probably consider dropping the unicorn and making peace with the NYC big law drone thing because that'll be your best bet for big law.

NU might be a good option for Chicago. Chicago is probably your best option for Chicago, but it's not worth it at what I think you're saying the cost of attendance would be.

LA without ties might be a toughie. Maybe go to Berkeley if CA is the goal.

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90convoy
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby 90convoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:27 pm

I was under the impression that the t-14 has for the most part an absence of being regionally restricted?

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:40 pm

90convoy wrote:I was under the impression that the t-14 has for the most part an absence of being regionally restricted?

If you're from the midwest and go to school on the east coast, I'm doubting a CA firm is going to be particularly interested in hiring you. Unless you have something they really covet (amazing grades, maybe a diversity factor they want) you're going to be just one dime in many many dozens. Tons of CA kids go to T14 schools and they can (and probably will) pick them over you if you're an otherwise ordinary candidate (which you likely will be). And even if you're not they might still pass over you for the local kid.

It's not an absolute, set in stone thing. But I wouldn't expect much of anything in CA to happen for you. NYC is the fallback, I'd focus on that and where you have ties (which is a decent legal market, so that's a good thing for you)

Anyway, my main point is that if you go to Duke, Columbia, etc. you're going to have to be just as open to NYC as if you went to Cornell.

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bruinfan10
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby bruinfan10 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:46 pm

BigZuck wrote:
90convoy wrote:I was under the impression that the t-14 has for the most part an absence of being regionally restricted?

If you're from the midwest and go to school on the east coast, I'm doubting a CA firm is going to be particularly interested in hiring you. Unless you have something they really covet (amazing grades, maybe a diversity factor they want) you're going to be just one dime in many many dozens. Tons of CA kids go to T14 schools and they can (and probably will) pick them over you if you're an otherwise ordinary candidate (which you likely will be). And even if you're not they might still pass over you for the local kid.

It's not an absolute, set in stone thing. But I wouldn't expect much of anything in CA to happen for you. NYC is the fallback, I'd focus on that and where you have ties (which is a decent legal market, so that's a good thing for you)

Anyway, my main point is that if you go to Duke, Columbia, etc. you're going to have to be just as open to NYC as if you went to Cornell.

While this is generally true, it's much more true of SF than LA. LA is far more dgaf about ties.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:51 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
90convoy wrote:I was under the impression that the t-14 has for the most part an absence of being regionally restricted?

If you're from the midwest and go to school on the east coast, I'm doubting a CA firm is going to be particularly interested in hiring you. Unless you have something they really covet (amazing grades, maybe a diversity factor they want) you're going to be just one dime in many many dozens. Tons of CA kids go to T14 schools and they can (and probably will) pick them over you if you're an otherwise ordinary candidate (which you likely will be). And even if you're not they might still pass over you for the local kid.

It's not an absolute, set in stone thing. But I wouldn't expect much of anything in CA to happen for you. NYC is the fallback, I'd focus on that and where you have ties (which is a decent legal market, so that's a good thing for you)

Anyway, my main point is that if you go to Duke, Columbia, etc. you're going to have to be just as open to NYC as if you went to Cornell.

While this is generally true, it's much more true of SF than LA. LA is far more dgaf about ties.

For sure

My original point though was less about ties and more about my thoughts on "Cornell=NYC big law, everything else= MAXIMUM PORTABILITY." I can dig that there's probably more geographically dispersed Michigan/Duke alums and that might be helpful on some level but NYC is still very much the fallback IMO

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:04 pm

Cornell is your best option. Forget about CCN

if you're KJD or have no reason to run off to law school Id suggest reapplying and EDing NU if you really want chicago. if not just go to Cornell

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90convoy
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby 90convoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:15 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Cornell is your best option. Forget about CCN

if you're KJD or have no reason to run off to law school Id suggest reapplying and EDing NU if you really want chicago. if not just go to Cornell


hmmm. okay thanks. Do you (or anyone) think there is really much of a difference between 90K of debt and 160K with regard to quality of life? I just dont feel like 70K is much over the course of a lifetime....especially when considering the better opportunities that may arise from going to a higher ranked school

CanadianWolf
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:25 pm

Duke seems to be your best option since you don't want NYC.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby BigZuck » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:28 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Duke seems to be your best option since you don't want NYC.

What is Duke buying for the OP that Cornell isn't?

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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby rpupkin » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:29 pm

90convoy wrote:Do you (or anyone) think there is really much of a difference between 90K of debt and 160K with regard to quality of life? I just dont feel like 70K is much over the course of a lifetime....especially when considering the better opportunities that may arise from going to a higher ranked school

The increased interest payments can easily be the difference between a nice apartment/house and a shitty apartment/house during some of the best years of your life.

And, in your case, the "higher ranked schools" aren't likely to lead to better opportunities.

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middlebear
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby middlebear » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:30 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Duke seems to be your best option since you don't want NYC.


If I were you I'd make sure to hold up Cornell and Duke's Chicago placement numbers side by side, but yeah, I'd be tempted to go Duke if I were you.

And to echo the poster above, I think that 70k does make a difference when you're going the BigLaw route.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:15 pm

90convoy wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Cornell is your best option. Forget about CCN

if you're KJD or have no reason to run off to law school Id suggest reapplying and EDing NU if you really want chicago. if not just go to Cornell


hmmm. okay thanks. Do you (or anyone) think there is really much of a difference between 90K of debt and 160K with regard to quality of life? I just dont feel like 70K is much over the course of a lifetime....especially when considering the better opportunities that may arise from going to a higher ranked school


what are the two options?

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90convoy
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby 90convoy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:23 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
90convoy wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Cornell is your best option. Forget about CCN

if you're KJD or have no reason to run off to law school Id suggest reapplying and EDing NU if you really want chicago. if not just go to Cornell


hmmm. okay thanks. Do you (or anyone) think there is really much of a difference between 90K of debt and 160K with regard to quality of life? I just dont feel like 70K is much over the course of a lifetime....especially when considering the better opportunities that may arise from going to a higher ranked school


what are the two options?


I'm talking about comparing Duke/Cornell to Chicago...the difference may be more like 85K but still

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:50 pm

90convoy wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
90convoy wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:Cornell is your best option. Forget about CCN

if you're KJD or have no reason to run off to law school Id suggest reapplying and EDing NU if you really want chicago. if not just go to Cornell


hmmm. okay thanks. Do you (or anyone) think there is really much of a difference between 90K of debt and 160K with regard to quality of life? I just dont feel like 70K is much over the course of a lifetime....especially when considering the better opportunities that may arise from going to a higher ranked school


what are the two options?


I'm talking about comparing Duke/Cornell to Chicago...the difference may be more like 85K but still

That's a lot of money (and when you consider interest over 10 years I think it actually pans about to about a 100k difference, over 25 years it's more than $150k difference), particularly since you have no idea of whether you'll enjoy being a lawyer or not. Some kinds of debt are easier to handle because you can dispose of them relatively easy. If you have a mortgage you can usually (though not always) sell your house and get enough to pay it off. If you finish law and start practicing and realize a year in that what you really desperately want to do with your life is be a pastry chef, you can't sell your law degree since you don't want to use it anymore. You just get to hang on to that debt for the next 20 years. It can be pretty rough.

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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:20 pm

Duke if they hold the lead

Head west if Madison ties it up

ETA: duke it is

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90convoy
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby 90convoy » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:09 am

Thanks everybody. I appreciate the inputs, they will def figure in. I'll probably wait on what Columbia offers and then make the decision. It would just be nice to experience somethin new (not Midwest) for a while. Being 21 and single I feel like I can afford to take risks ya know

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90convoy
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Re: Columbia(?) vs. Cornell$$$ vs. Chicago$ vs. Duke$$

Postby 90convoy » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:06 pm

UPDATE: M gave me a great offer. It would involve me leaving with less debt than Cornell. Any more tips? Thanks

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WeeBey
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Re: Cornell vs. Chicago vs. Duke UPDATE!

Postby WeeBey » Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:14 pm

Take your Michigan offer to Duke.

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90convoy
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Re: Cornell vs. Chicago vs. Duke UPDATE!

Postby 90convoy » Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:46 pm

WeeBey wrote:Take your Michigan offer to Duke.



alright!

Also, bump. I changed the OP and would be grateful if anyone could give me any help with this :?

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bruinfan10
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Re: Cornell vs. Chicago vs. Duke UPDATE!

Postby bruinfan10 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:26 pm

90convoy wrote:
WeeBey wrote:Take your Michigan offer to Duke.



alright!

Also, bump. I changed the OP and would be grateful if anyone could give me any help with this :?

I wouldn't pay 70k more for CLS. You have to screw up pretty badly at Michigan to strike out on NYC biglaw, and Michigan places a little better in LA than Cornell to the extent you want to keep that door open.

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AreJay711
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Re: Columbia $$ Vs. Cornell and Michigan ($$$)

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:51 pm

$70k difference is a lot of money. That's probably closer to $100k after loan payments. But I went to Michigan so I'm biased.

I've said this a lot on here, but ties to an area can be developed over your 1L summer. I'm from the east coast and got an SA and then a clerkship in Texas. I worked at one of the Texas cities for my 1L summers, met with some attorneys while I was there, and was able to tell a convincing story about why I wanted to be in Texas. I don't think CA will be tougher to sell.

Firms will ask you (at least on callbacks) why you went to the school you did, and just tell them your reasons. I had a scholly at Michigan and liked the vibe. No one questioned that. No one is going to question Columbia or Cornell with a scholarship either.

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WeeBey
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Re: Cornell vs. Chicago vs. Duke UPDATE!

Postby WeeBey » Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:30 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
90convoy wrote:
WeeBey wrote:Take your Michigan offer to Duke.



alright!

Also, bump. I changed the OP and would be grateful if anyone could give me any help with this :?

I wouldn't pay 70k more for CLS. You have to screw up pretty badly at Michigan to strike out on NYC biglaw, and Michigan places a little better in LA than Cornell to the extent you want to keep that door open.


With 54% in BL + FC, I'm a little skeptical of that statement. Even GULC is at 48% and I think they have a greater self-selection bias.

Cornell placed 74% BL + FC, that means well below median folks are getting biglaw. Sure, it is probably all NYC Biglaw, however, if you get biglaw from either school, it most likely will be NYC, but Cornell will place better into NYC. And you can always lateral to CA after a few years in NYC.




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