BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

BC
11
32%
Temple
6
18%
St. John's
17
50%
 
Total votes: 34

lawschoolnow
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BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby lawschoolnow » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:14 pm

I am trying to decide between:
Boston College (34) at full cost, $46,790
Temple (52) with $15,000 scholarship, so paying $19,032, keep 2.5 GPA
St. John's (82) with full scholarship, keep 2.1 GPA

I was always aiming to do family law, just because my gpa/ ambitions were low, but now I feel more optimistic. I already have 30k in debt from undergrad. I am from NY, but I wouldn't mind working elsewhere. I will be paying for law school with loans.


EDIT

Boston has given me 15k per year now, still too expensive though
Last edited by lawschoolnow on Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:28 pm

Trying to decide among these three law schools is easy considering your goal of family law = full tuition at any law school is the best option that you can get.

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Winston1984
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:18 am

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

BigZuck
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:20 am

What does this mean?

"I was always aiming to do family law, just because my gpa/ ambitions were low, but now I feel more optimistic."

timbs4339
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:26 am

Weirdly, St. Johns is the correct answer here if you want to do family law. BC at sticker- hell no. Have you calculated what the curve at St. John's is?

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JohannDeMann
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby JohannDeMann » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:34 am

I'd go with St. Johns.

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Rigo
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:45 am

St. John's.
You're the world's biggest idiot if you take BC at sticker.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby zombie mcavoy » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:59 pm

i read this post as meaning that OP made his goals family law because his grades/LSAT were crappy, but now he's getting more optimistic, for some reason, and wants to do something more glitzy than fam law. Is that right, OP?

If you want to do family law I would work for a year or two to try and kill your loans and save up some COL money then I would take a full ride to whatever school will give you one in the city you want to be in long term.

If you want to do something other than family law, first, what, and second, retake.

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BlueLotus
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:56 am

Rigo wrote:St. John's.
You're the world's biggest idiot if you take BC at sticker.


+1. BC is a TTTrap. Stay far, far away.

Informative
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Informative » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:12 pm

If you want to practice family law, go with the least expensive option.

greek18
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby greek18 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:47 pm

100% agree with BlueLotus.

BC is such a TTTrap compared to Temple and St. John's. According to US News rankings BC was only ranked the 34th best law school in the country.

Compare that to Temple at 52nd and St. John's at 82.

I def wouldn't go to BC though based solely on BlueLotus's opinion. Listening to strangers on the internet is how I personally prefer to make all my major life decisions.

Nomo
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Nomo » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:51 pm

Winston1984 wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT


Nobody can give you good advice without knowing the answers to these questions.

I particularly want to know what goals you have that are, as you say, more ambitious than family law.

Wingtip88
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Wingtip88 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:04 pm

OP - please use Law School Transparency's financial worksheets to calculate how much debt you'd actually have graduating from any of these schools. I promise it's a hell of a lot more than you realize, especially given that you're already thirty large in the hole from UG. Even your full ride to St. John's will leave you chewing away at six figures of debt after law school on a salary that may range from $40-60k.

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/

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Serett
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Serett » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:10 am

Ideally, PM an administrator to ask for a username change, and retake.

Otherwise, St. John's.

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BlueLotus
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:50 am

greek18 wrote:100% agree with BlueLotus.

BC is such a TTTrap compared to Temple and St. John's. According to US News rankings BC was only ranked the 34th best law school in the country.

Compare that to Temple at 52nd and St. John's at 82.

I def wouldn't go to BC though based solely on BlueLotus's opinion. Listening to strangers on the internet is how I personally prefer to make all my major life decisions.


You really think this kid should take STICKER price at a school with a Law School Transparency score of 63%? That kind of debt is unsustainable.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:25 am

Serett wrote:Ideally, PM an administrator to ask for a username change, and retake.

Otherwise, St. John's.


+1

skri65
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby skri65 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:27 am

BlueLotus wrote:
greek18 wrote:100% agree with BlueLotus.

BC is such a TTTrap compared to Temple and St. John's. According to US News rankings BC was only ranked the 34th best law school in the country.

Compare that to Temple at 52nd and St. John's at 82.

I def wouldn't go to BC though based solely on BlueLotus's opinion. Listening to strangers on the internet is how I personally prefer to make all my major life decisions.


You really think this kid should take STICKER price at a school with a Law School Transparency score of 63%? That kind of debt is unsustainable.


I'm not going to endorse going to BC at sticker, but 63% is old data.

37% of the 2014 BC graduates went to biglaw (100+ firm) or federal clerkship. 75% of the class got a full time bar-required job. These numbers are about as good as you can get outside the T14.

greek18
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby greek18 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:05 am

Yes. BC has given him 15k in money. Why should transparency be the main metric you base this decision on?

I can understand maybe going with St. John's because they are giving him a full scholarship. The only other reason you would pick like Temple or St. John's is if you wanted to work/live in those areas. BC is obviously a superior school in a variety of ways. I don't see how you continually refer to it as a "TTT trap".

Saying BC has a bad transparanecy rating just distorts the core issues at play here.

Moreover, lots of people take out debt and its certainly not unsustaniable. Debt is a core fact of life for most people. Credit card debt, mortgages, student loans. People are willing to take out debt as long as it will positively impact their qualities of life.

I'm not saying BC is the only choice here, I'm just saying that you make BC seem way way worse than it actually is. In reality, BC is exactly what you would expect from a school around the T-30's. You act like him going to St. John's or Temple will like automatically give him better career/life prospects when thats not necessarily the case.

Informative
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Informative » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:31 am

greek18 wrote:Yes. BC has given him 15k in money. Why should transparency be the main metric you base this decision on?

I can understand maybe going with St. John's because they are giving him a full scholarship. The only other reason you would pick like Temple or St. John's is if you wanted to work/live in those areas. BC is obviously a superior school in a variety of ways. I don't see how you continually refer to it as a "TTT trap".

Saying BC has a bad transparanecy rating just distorts the core issues at play here.

Moreover, lots of people take out debt and its certainly not unsustaniable. Debt is a core fact of life for most people. Credit card debt, mortgages, student loans. People are willing to take out debt as long as it will positively impact their qualities of life.

I'm not saying BC is the only choice here, I'm just saying that you make BC seem way way worse than it actually is. In reality, BC is exactly what you would expect from a school around the T-30's. You act like him going to St. John's or Temple will like automatically give him better career/life prospects when thats not necessarily the case.


Agreed. These forums tend to be hypersensitive about student loans to the point where posters advocate for horrible schools that offer financial packages but no real employment options, particularly in BigLaw. The BCs and BUs (and GWs and Fordhams) of the world are certainly not T14 in terms of placement, but they are better than most other law schools.

timbs4339
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:41 pm

Informative wrote:
greek18 wrote:Yes. BC has given him 15k in money. Why should transparency be the main metric you base this decision on?

I can understand maybe going with St. John's because they are giving him a full scholarship. The only other reason you would pick like Temple or St. John's is if you wanted to work/live in those areas. BC is obviously a superior school in a variety of ways. I don't see how you continually refer to it as a "TTT trap".

Saying BC has a bad transparanecy rating just distorts the core issues at play here.

Moreover, lots of people take out debt and its certainly not unsustaniable. Debt is a core fact of life for most people. Credit card debt, mortgages, student loans. People are willing to take out debt as long as it will positively impact their qualities of life.

I'm not saying BC is the only choice here, I'm just saying that you make BC seem way way worse than it actually is. In reality, BC is exactly what you would expect from a school around the T-30's. You act like him going to St. John's or Temple will like automatically give him better career/life prospects when thats not necessarily the case.


Agreed. These forums tend to be hypersensitive about student loans to the point where posters advocate for horrible schools that offer financial packages but no real employment options, particularly in BigLaw. The BCs and BUs (and GWs and Fordhams) of the world are certainly not T14 in terms of placement, but they are better than most other law schools.


No, but they certainly cost T14 money in terms of placement.

A median student at GW and a median student at St. Johns will probably wind up in a similar situation, with a similar salary. Even though BC far and away has better biglaw prospects, that's not worth it in my book.

250K of debt at close to 7% interest is an absolute fuckton of money to tie yourself to at age 25 or so. Even if I was guaranteed a biglaw job, I still might not take that bet. I probably would in the end, but I'd think long and hard about it.

OTOH, 75K debt for a 40-60K job is a decent deal. That salary should go up over time and you'll enjoy it a lot more.

IChaseAmbulances
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby IChaseAmbulances » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:39 am

.
Last edited by IChaseAmbulances on Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:18 pm, edited 11 times in total.

03152016
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby 03152016 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:45 am

well this just got interesting
but we're in the on-topics, and the topic is bc vs temple vs st johns
not ichaseambulances vs bluelotus

can you address her point about whether sticker is justifiable at a school with such a low lt/ft/jd rate?

BigZuck
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby BigZuck » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:16 am

Yeah, that's a lot of words to say not much of anything, really. The most substantive thing you said is a tired refrain of GULC and Mich apologists ("Things are totes getting better next year, just wait and see you hater you!"). That's empty. Of course I think you're right in a lot of ways but instead of coming off as an insufferable law student why not just stare down that bull and his horns and tackle things head on and straightforwardly?

I'm legitimately interested in hearing what sort of "stir" those posts have made on campus (if you can avoid outing BL here (which is probably impossible) cuz that's a no-no). I realize by saying that that I am opening myself up to having to read more words written by this dude which is a notion that makes my heart hurt but I am curious as to how or why people at BC care about some rando posting random dumb things on TLS.

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Rigo
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby Rigo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:31 am

IChaseAmbulances wrote:Well Blue, after months hearing second hand your incessant attacks on Boston College Law School on this forum, I finally took the plunge into the nihilistic circle jerk that is TLS and decided to respond (after a few beers, of course. You people are unbearable sober).

As others have indicated, debt, scholly offers, and employment prospects are obvious factors in considering which law school to attend. I have no pretensions of expertise when it comes to the "which law school is for me" calculus. I just hope the original poster does his or her research and chooses the law school that will maximize his or her happiness.

Anyway, Blue, enough platitudes. Let's put our cards on the table here.

As I am sure you very well know, your campaign of bullshit is causing a small - yet potent - stir on our campus. Now, traditionally I pride myself on avoiding law school drama and controversy (I never participated in Constitutional Law II, not even once!). Yet, when I finally took the time to read up on your ongoing crusade against Boston College, unlike my favorite SCOTUS Justice, I felt compelled to break my long silence.

I was shocked to learn that you insert your diabolical hatred for BCLS into literally every post you craft, even if it's as forced and awkward as Jesse Pinkman at Skyler White's dining table. As such, I can only imagine how hard you creamed when you processed the title of this thread. Your day of relevance had finally come; for months you were Michael Scott, futilely chirping "That's what she said. That's what she said. That's what she said," until you finally got the perfect set up to your tired punchline (just a couple of mainstream TV references for the philistines lurking in the shadows). So, I figured this was the ideal thread to address your behavior.

While I can't say I've had the displeasure of meeting you personally, like many students at Boston College, I have heard things about you. Whatever happened between you and Boston College is entirely your business and I obviously would never publicly disclose what bizarre rumors I've heard about your situation (or your identity). But, and here's my point -- I think for the sake of OP and anyone else out there considering Boston College, please understand that Blue had a unique and adverse experience at BC Law and maintains a quixotic vendetta against the institution and its administration. Her in depth analysis and contributions, such as "BC is a TTTrap. Stay far, far away," don't even warrant the proverbial grain of salt. Her words are just shit.

You're insanely biased against the school and have devoted an absurd amount of your time to steering people away from Boston College. Hey, your agenda is just that; your agenda. But do not for a single second operate under the pretense that you're offering genuine advice to OP, when you're clearly just advancing your petty war against my school.

Admittedly, my response somewhat legitimizes your "retaliation" against Boston College, and perhaps even provokes further dubious attacks on BC. At some point in my limited online forum experience I believe I encountered the phrase "Do Not Feed the Trolls." I don't know if that's what this is, but whatever. Again, it's not my intention to attack you personally (although I probably did...is that what you call a Collateral Attack? I haven't started Bar Prep yet), but simply to expose your obvious bias against Boston College, and alert others (or at the minimum OP) to the game you're playing. I'm being sincere, and not flippant, when I say I hope your life gets better; hostility aside, your post history reveals a sad and broken human. I get it; law school can be miserable experience...but it'll be over soon, and you have the rest of your life to chase your happiness. Let me make this point again so it's not lost: going forward, I wish you the best and hope you find your peace. But I won't sit idly and watch you dilute the value of my degree - by whatever infinitesimal amount - by discouraging potential applicants from considering Boston College.

I won't think about you and this nonsense again (well, that is, until graduation, when we'll all have a nice laugh at the JD equivalent of the spinster Catlady giving a 1-star Yelp review to the dry cleaner she lives above because she thinks the undocumented workers there are tapping into her landline. Yikes!).

For anyone who thinks this diatribe is unwarranted, Blue literally compared Boston College to Cooley.

Stay classy, Blue.

lol you showed her!

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BlueLotus
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Re: BC vs. Temple vs. St. John's

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:36 am

Rigo wrote:
IChaseAmbulances wrote:Well Blue, after months hearing second hand your incessant attacks on Boston College Law School on this forum, I finally took the plunge into the nihilistic circle jerk that is TLS and decided to respond (after a few beers, of course. You people are unbearable sober).

As others have indicated, debt, scholly offers, and employment prospects are obvious factors in considering which law school to attend. I have no pretensions of expertise when it comes to the "which law school is for me" calculus. I just hope the original poster does his or her research and chooses the law school that will maximize his or her happiness.

Anyway, Blue, enough platitudes. Let's put our cards on the table here.

As I am sure you very well know, your campaign of bullshit is causing a small - yet potent - stir on our campus. Now, traditionally I pride myself on avoiding law school drama and controversy (I never participated in Constitutional Law II, not even once!). Yet, when I finally took the time to read up on your ongoing crusade against Boston College, unlike my favorite SCOTUS Justice, I felt compelled to break my long silence.

I was shocked to learn that you insert your diabolical hatred for BCLS into literally every post you craft, even if it's as forced and awkward as Jesse Pinkman at Skyler White's dining table. As such, I can only imagine how hard you creamed when you processed the title of this thread. Your day of relevance had finally come; for months you were Michael Scott, futilely chirping "That's what she said. That's what she said. That's what she said," until you finally got the perfect set up to your tired punchline (just a couple of mainstream TV references for the philistines lurking in the shadows). So, I figured this was the ideal thread to address your behavior.

While I can't say I've had the displeasure of meeting you personally, like many students at Boston College, I have heard things about you. Whatever happened between you and Boston College is entirely your business and I obviously would never publicly disclose what bizarre rumors I've heard about your situation (or your identity). But, and here's my point -- I think for the sake of OP and anyone else out there considering Boston College, please understand that Blue had a unique and adverse experience at BC Law and maintains a quixotic vendetta against the institution and its administration. Her in depth analysis and contributions, such as "BC is a TTTrap. Stay far, far away," don't even warrant the proverbial grain of salt. Her words are just shit.

You're insanely biased against the school and have devoted an absurd amount of your time to steering people away from Boston College. Hey, your agenda is just that; your agenda. But do not for a single second operate under the pretense that you're offering genuine advice to OP, when you're clearly just advancing your petty war against my school.

Admittedly, my response somewhat legitimizes your "retaliation" against Boston College, and perhaps even provokes further dubious attacks on BC. At some point in my limited online forum experience I believe I encountered the phrase "Do Not Feed the Trolls." I don't know if that's what this is, but whatever. Again, it's not my intention to attack you personally (although I probably did...is that what you call a Collateral Attack? I haven't started Bar Prep yet), but simply to expose your obvious bias against Boston College, and alert others (or at the minimum OP) to the game you're playing. I'm being sincere, and not flippant, when I say I hope your life gets better; hostility aside, your post history reveals a sad and broken human. I get it; law school can be miserable experience...but it'll be over soon, and you have the rest of your life to chase your happiness. Let me make this point again so it's not lost: going forward, I wish you the best and hope you find your peace. But I won't sit idly and watch you dilute the value of my degree - by whatever infinitesimal amount - by discouraging potential applicants from considering Boston College.

I won't think about you and this nonsense again (well, that is, until graduation, when we'll all have a nice laugh at the JD equivalent of the spinster Catlady giving a 1-star Yelp review to the dry cleaner she lives above because she thinks the undocumented workers there are tapping into her landline. Yikes!).

For anyone who thinks this diatribe is unwarranted, Blue literally compared Boston College to Cooley.

Stay classy, Blue.

lol you showed her!


15K per year is still NOT enough to make BC worth it. Isn't this TLS conventional wisdom? OP should negotiate for more money if he has offers from peer schools. BC is notoriously stingy. At $15K/year off, that's still a crazy amount of debt for a potentially grim outcome. I met a recent grad at a networking event who said that some of his peers' legal careers never took off and that they are bar tending. Is that an outcome you are willing to embrace, with six figures of student debt hanging over your head?




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