Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

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bobleman300
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Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby bobleman300 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:48 pm

Hi so I have a pretty complicated situation. I am a K-JD who has been planning on going to law school for a while now. I am very privileged and my parents paid for all of my UG, and they also have the money saved up to pay for all of my law school as well. I was told that if I got into a "top" law school, I would be able to go for free. I recently narrowed down my choices to Stanford (which is my dream law school), the full ride at Duke (my UG), and the full ride at UVA. I was ready to commit to Stanford last night after withdrawing from Harvard and being rejected by Yale, but my parents and I got into a pretty big fight. We've always had a very business like relationship and are not close as a family. They were not happy with my plan to do any public interest work at all and were equally unhappy that I did not get into HY, they do not consider Stanford a top law school and have refused to talk to my professors and mentors who have been trying to convince them otherwise. I did not look into financial aid at all because I was under the assumption that I wouldn't qualify, but now I have no idea where to even start. My parents make $500k+ a year and so I don't think I will qualify for most programs. Where should I look for loans and funding, I literally have no idea how any of this works and I only have one week before my scholarship deadlines?


COAs: Stanford - $260,000
UVA - $0
Duke - $0

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings: Loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any): Philadelphia, went to school at Duke for UG, strong ties in the law school. I've spent 4 summers interning in DC and will be going back for my career in some capacity, not really considering anywhere else at all

-Your general career goals: I want to work in education policy, public sector (DoEd, Senate HELP, DPC, etc.) as well as private (DC ed law firms, lobbying for ed or universities, in house for a university). Also heavily considering going back into academia and then university governance later in my career. I also plan on clerking.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers : 171 3.91

-How many times you have taken the LSAT: Just one, probably shouldve retaken, I was PTing between 173-179 on proctored exams, with a median score of 176. Bombed my actual test because of the semi manufactured products game in June.


Stanford was my dream school for law school because i would be pursuing a JD/MA there (3 years, no additional costs). They have the single best ed policy school in the country and have the only education policy law joint program that I know of. I already spoke to the professor that runs that joint program, the ed law clinic, and one of the policy labs and he was recruiting me hard to join his team. I also really want to be in california because I have spent my entire life in highly white areas and would like to experience more asian culture.

Any help on the decision is welcome. Any help on places to find info on loans and fin aid is very very very very welcome. I literally don't know where to start looking.

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Dog
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Dog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:53 pm

I think there are deeper underlying issues in your family. I find it hard to believe your parents won't pay for Stanford because it's not a "top school." Maybe they're saying that, but I think it might have more to do with the fight. Hopefully cooler heads prevail.

I'd try talking things out with your family, not just about paying for school but about this "business" relationship.

bobleman300
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby bobleman300 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:56 pm

Hopefully as well, door definitely is not closed. Either way I need to present a loan plan just in case because my scholarship deadlines are coming very quickly/already passed but got extended.

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rpupkin
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:00 pm

Yeah, you're not getting any need-based aid out of SLS. Your parents make too much money.

Even though SLS is better for your interests (and, even apart from your interests, a better overall law school than your other two options), it's not worth taking out $260K of debt for. If you're going to go to law school, I think you've got to go with either Duke or UVA.

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Dog
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Dog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:00 pm

You've got full rides to two of the top schools for DC placement and an acceptance to HYS. You're in good shape even without your parents. Most parents out there would be more than proud of you.

Good luck with the family issues sometimes a small talk can do a lot of good.

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LoganCouture
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby LoganCouture » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:02 pm

Just a note OP, Stanford would be like $300K at repayment. (Factoring in loan interest and tuition + COL increases annually).

Enjoy UVA/Duke if things with your parents don't work out. Although I'm actually amazed that there are rich Asian parents out there who don't highly esteem Stanford.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:04 pm

I think it's time to cut the cord and go to Duke or UVA. You don't want to have to keep dealing with this stuff over and over for the next three years followed by who knows how many years of their generosity hanging over your head.

For financial aid stuff just go fill out the FAFSA. I promise you getting loans is not difficult

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I think it's time to cut the cord and go to Duke or UVA. You don't want to have to keep dealing with this stuff over and over for the next three years followed by who knows how many years of their generosity hanging over your head.

For financial aid stuff just go fill out the FAFSA. I promise you getting loans is not difficult


probably UVA for DC goals.

bobleman300
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby bobleman300 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Do I qualify for special federal loans programs? I know I dont qualify for perkins and work study. Family assets are probably $4-5 mil or up, I have no idea. My parents wont provide me information to even fill out FAFSA.

Anyone else know any other strategies or things I can say to prove that it could be worth it for them? We're east coast so there isn't stanford prestige in their minds.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:09 pm

Parental info is not needed for the FAFSA so you're good there.

While you work things out you might want to double deposit at Stanford and either of Duke/UVA and hope things turn around, but I really think you will be better off in the long run just doing your own thing.

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LoganCouture
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby LoganCouture » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:14 pm

OP if #2 in USNWR isn't preftigious enough for them, idk what's wrong with them.

Also co-sign Tiago in that Stanford/$$$ isn't worth your parents holding this over your head forever.

Disclaimer: 0L.

Big Dog
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Big Dog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:20 pm

mistake was not riding the HLS wait list....

Nomo
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Nomo » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:28 pm

UVA or Duke. You might find that its easier to build a real relationship with your parents once you no longer need anything from them. I obviously don't know what your family issues are, but I'd bet that you're going to have a lot of resentment if you feel like you have to toe some sort of family line in order to get them to pay for school. There's something to be said for obtaining some independence.

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MistakenGenius
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Postby MistakenGenius » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:48 pm

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:52 pm

I bet you OP's parents are Cal Bears.

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rpupkin
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:33 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've said before on this forum that many places on the East coast (south especially) do not consider Stanford a top school. I had many people ask me if it was a Historically Black College like Howard when I was applying to school. Stanford is a fantastic school with little national lay prestige.

That said, it might be best to try to work with your parents on this. Show them Stanford's law school transparency rate. No one can claim a school is bad if all these top judges choose students from there.

Lay people aren't impressed by clerkships. Why didn't you get a real job at a firm instead of serving as a judge's secretary for a year? The legal community is impressed by clerkships, but to those outside it just seems like an externship for a law school graduate who can't yet hack it in the real world.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:26 pm

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby Ex Cearulo » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:00 pm

I can't believe I'm saying this, but show them the US News rankings for the last several years (if you haven't already). Anything to help them see the light. Show them a list of famous and well-respected Stanford Law alums. Hopefully after that and some time they'll place a little more weight on your personal desires and goals, if for nothing else than out of respect of how well you've done up to this point. But if none of that changes anything, yeah it's tough to recommend almost $300k in debt when UVA and Duke for free are obviously incredible options. Good luck, OP.

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:06 pm

Flame...

They let you go to Duke undergrad, so I don't believe that your parents would think Stanford is not a "top law school". Duke doesn't really mean shit outside of the South.

Stanford >>>>>>>>>>>> Duke in every metric, including undergrad.

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:09 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've said before on this forum that many places on the East coast (south especially) do not consider Stanford a top school. I had many people ask me if it was a Historically Black College like Howard when I was applying to school. Stanford is a fantastic school with little national lay prestige.


People in NYC generally think it's on par with Columbia. Pretty much everyone on the West Coast thinks Stanford is on par with Harvard and pretty much would choose Stanford over Harvard many times over.

People in the South don't really know anything outside of Duke and Vandy and maybe HYP.

Still though, if OP's parents let him go to Duke undergrad, why the fuck would they not let him go to Stanford law? Stanford >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Duke in all metrics.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:13 pm

Many East Coasters folks don't give Stanford the respect that it deserves. Regardless, Duke or Virginia tuition free is too good to pass up versus Stanford at sticker.

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MistakenGenius
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Postby MistakenGenius » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:18 pm

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:20 pm

MistakenGenius wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:
MistakenGenius wrote:This doesn't surprise me in the least. I've said before on this forum that many places on the East coast (south especially) do not consider Stanford a top school. I had many people ask me if it was a Historically Black College like Howard when I was applying to school. Stanford is a fantastic school with little national lay prestige.


People in NYC generally think it's on par with Columbia. Pretty much everyone on the West Coast thinks Stanford is on par with Harvard and pretty much would choose Stanford over Harvard many times over.

People in the South don't really know anything outside of Duke and Vandy and maybe HYP.

Still though, if OP's parents let him go to Duke undergrad, why the fuck would they not let him go to Stanford law? Stanford >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Duke in all metrics.


You nailed the South, though I'd say a lot of people down there are also vaguely aware of Columbia and Cornell (primarily from the Office) as good schools. I'd say here in Connecticut, Duke is about on the same level as Stanford. An elite school, but not one of the very top ones. HYP rules everywhere (with Harvard out in front), though MIT is up there too.

But I agree. To any rational person who sees the data, Stanford is clearly better than Duke in virtually every field. I think they're a T3 in Law, Business, and Med School, which is amazing. That's why I told OP to show his parents the data. But a Mordecai would still be a fantastic option.


Yeah, that is just bizarre to me. I think Stanford = Harvard and Duke is like USC or something...but I'm originally from the West. I knew tons of people who chose USC law over Duke law, etc. Most people don't even apply to Southern schools tbh.

Still, objectively, agreed, Stanford is better in every goddamn metric.

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MistakenGenius
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Postby MistakenGenius » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:24 pm

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pancakes3
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Re: Stanford vs. Duke $$$ vs. UVA $$$ Interesting case

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:11 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:Flame...

They let you go to Duke undergrad, so I don't believe that your parents would think Stanford is not a "top law school". Duke doesn't really mean shit outside of the South.

Stanford >>>>>>>>>>>> Duke in every metric, including undergrad.


This is a good point and the parents are probably more peeved at withdrawing from Harvard and the career goals rather than genuinely believe that Stanford isn't a "top law school".

Also, I don't think the OP conclusively said he was Asian.




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