Iowa (full tuition) v. Illinois (full tuition)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Iowa or Illinois

Iowa
9
47%
Illinois
10
53%
 
Total votes: 19

JMWZ
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Iowa (full tuition) v. Illinois (full tuition)

Postby JMWZ » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:07 pm

Hello TLS,

I have officially narrowed my list down to two schools. I have full tuition offers at both Iowa and Illinois, so I think that either option I chose will be a good outcome for me. My estimated COA for each school is as follows:

Illinois: $44,400
Iowa: $38,000

I have $10,000 a year in support, that's why my COA is a little lower than most. I will fund the rest through loans.

My areas of interest are antitrust law and M&A. My undergraduate major is economics, so I think that these legal fields tie in well with that, especially antitrust law. I know that Iowa has a particularly strong antitrust program. I would like to do biglaw for a few years out law school, then either move in-house into a large corporation or into a private equity firm.

I have lived in Minnesota my entire life, more specifically in St. Paul. I have ties to the area and in the legal community. I like the option of coming back to the Twin Cities, but I'm not set on that. I know that Iowa has better placement in Minnesota which makes it appealing. Illinois gives me a better shot at Chicago and other major markets however.

Iowa is closer to home, better placement in Minnesota, and has a better antitrust program. Illinois seems to be more versatile, but gives me less opportunity to come back to Minnesota. Illinois also gives me the greater chance at a great paying job out of law school. I'm truly at an impasse and anything that could be used to help me decide would be great. I think that TLS will say Illinois because of the big law, but I think I could be just as happy at a mid-sized firm of 50 or so lawyers in the right situation and place.

My numbers are 3.66 and 162.
Last edited by JMWZ on Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Winston1984
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Winston1984 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:21 pm

Why not retake the LSAT? Sounds like you do want biglaw, and specifically biglaw in the MN. Would go to a T14 or at least Minnesota for super cheap.

cr073137
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby cr073137 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:31 pm

JMWZ wrote:Hello TLS,

I have officially narrowed my list down to two schools. I have full tuition offers at both Iowa and Illinois, so I think that either option I chose will be a good outcome for me. My estimated COA for each school is as follows:

Illinois: $44,400
Iowa: $38,000

I have $10,000 a year in support, that's why my COA is a little lower than most. I will fund the rest through loans.

My areas of interest are antitrust law and M&A. My undergraduate major is economics, so I think that these legal fields tie in well with that, especially antitrust law. I know that Iowa has a particularly strong antitrust program. I would like to do biglaw for a few years out law school, then either move in-house into a large corporation or into a private equity firm.

I have lived in Minnesota my entire life, more specifically in St. Paul. I have ties to the area and in the legal community. I like the option of coming back to the Twin Cities, but I'm not set on that. I know that Iowa has better placement in Minnesota which makes it appealing. Illinois gives me a better shot at Chicago and other major markets however.

Iowa is closer to home, better placement in Minnesota, and has a better antitrust program. Illinois seems to be more versatile, but gives me less opportunity to come back to Minnesota. Illinois also gives me the greater chance at a great paying job out of law school. I'm truly at an impasse and anything that could be used to help me decide would be great. I think that TLS will say Illinois because of the big law, but I think I could be just as happy at a mid-sized firm of 50 or so lawyers in the right situation and place.

My numbers are 3.66 and 162.


First, congratulations. I am only a few years out and those numbers would have been automatic rejections... so consider yourself lucky. I will tell you this, go by placement in general, ie, Illinois (where I went). I was able to get a big law job in Minneapolis without much issue, outside of top 10% (several of the MN firms do OCI, and are quite welcoming of U of I grads in general).

Believe me, there is nothing worst than graduating without a job that pays well, ie, mid to big law, while having loans, even if a little. Illinois' placement is, and will continue to be, much better than Iowa's. If you end up in Chicago, so be it, you will be there for 1-2 years, have a great experience, and be able to move to Minneapolis (or anywhere for that matter) without much issue. The lateral market is much much better than first year hiring.

You go to Iowa, sure, you get a slightly better shot at Minnesota, but you also have a higher chance of getting nothing...

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cron1834
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby cron1834 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:43 pm

I'm from MN. If you want to work there, go to a T14 or UMN for cheap. Unless you have some plausible experience/tie with Chicago, then UIUC for full tuition is reasonable.

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:52 pm

cron1834 wrote:I'm from MN. If you want to work there, go to a T14 or UMN for cheap. Unless you have some plausible experience/tie with Chicago, then UIUC for full tuition is reasonable.


I don't have any ties to Chicago other than some family there. In reality I would be happy with Chicago or STL. Can I ask where you went to school and what your outcome was like?

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:02 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Why not retake the LSAT? Sounds like you do want biglaw, and specifically biglaw in the MN. Would go to a T14 or at least Minnesota for super cheap.


I studied for the LSAT as hard as I ever have studied for anything. My highest practice test score was 160. I feel very fortunate that I ended up with a 162. To be honest, when I saw my score I thought LSAC had made a mistake.

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Rigo
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:08 pm

UIUC has twice the biglaw placement of Iowa, so I choose Illinois of the two if biglaw is the number one objective.
If specifically Minnesota biglaw is the objective, then I don't know.

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:06 pm

Rigo wrote:UIUC has twice the biglaw placement of Iowa, so I choose Illinois of the two if biglaw is the number one objective.
If specifically Minnesota biglaw is the objective, then I don't know.


I by no means need to come back to Minnesota, the fact that a school could bring me back would be considered a bonus though. I think I could be perfectly happier with a mid sized law firm, but as we know those types of jobs are more random, so it's hard to make a decision based on them.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:58 pm

Seems like you're trying to decide whether to plant corn or maize next season.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JohannDeMann » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:21 pm

some of these legal statistics are more self selection than anything. you really think someone in minnesota is getting a resume and preferring iowa over illinois? they dont give a fuck. go to whereever has the best employment numbers period, not based on employment in minnesota.

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Clyde Frog
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Clyde Frog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:24 pm

JMWZ wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Why not retake the LSAT? Sounds like you do want biglaw, and specifically biglaw in the MN. Would go to a T14 or at least Minnesota for super cheap.


I studied for the LSAT as hard as I ever have studied for anything. My highest practice test score was 160. I feel very fortunate that I ended up with a 162. To be honest, when I saw my score I thought LSAC had made a mistake.


What study material did you use?

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:41 am

Clyde Frog wrote:
JMWZ wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Why not retake the LSAT? Sounds like you do want biglaw, and specifically biglaw in the MN. Would go to a T14 or at least Minnesota for super cheap.


I studied for the LSAT as hard as I ever have studied for anything. My highest practice test score was 160. I feel very fortunate that I ended up with a 162. To be honest, when I saw my score I thought LSAC had made a mistake.


What study material did you use?


I bought extra practice tests, the LR Bible, and McGraw-Hill review book.

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Rigo
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:21 am

I'm a bit surprised the COL estimate is about $2k a year higher for Illinois. Chambana is pretty darn cheap and it's easy to keep COL low. I imagine it's the same in Iowa City, but I didn't realize it was possibly to go significantly lower than UIUC.

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:02 am

Rigo wrote:I'm a bit surprised the COL estimate is about $2k a year higher for Illinois. Chambana is pretty darn cheap and it's easy to keep COL low. I imagine it's the same in Iowa City, but I didn't realize it was possibly to go significantly lower than UIUC.


I think the big difference is that UIUC has exorbitant fees. From all the research I've done, it seems like living is about the same between the two schools.

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Rigo
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:22 am

JMWZ wrote:
Rigo wrote:I'm a bit surprised the COL estimate is about $2k a year higher for Illinois. Chambana is pretty darn cheap and it's easy to keep COL low. I imagine it's the same in Iowa City, but I didn't realize it was possibly to go significantly lower than UIUC.

I think the big difference is that UIUC has exorbitant fees. From all the research I've done, it seems like living is about the same between the two schools.

Ah that explains it.

Wingtip88
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Wingtip88 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:31 pm

Here's a breakdown of the estimated fees: http://www.registrar.illinois.edu/g-fees-cr-1516

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:39 pm

Wingtip88 wrote:Here's a breakdown of the estimated fees: http://www.registrar.illinois.edu/g-fees-cr-1516


Hmm, do you have any idea how they arrived with this fee estimate?
https://www.law.illinois.edu/admissions ... d-expenses

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:55 pm

I would retake and go to UMN.

If you're not going to retake UIUC is hands down the better option. I wouldn't go to Iowa. Don't expect either to get you to Minneapolis, though.

JMWZ
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby JMWZ » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:30 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:I would retake and go to UMN.

If you're not going to retake UIUC is hands down the better option. I wouldn't go to Iowa. Don't expect either to get you to Minneapolis, though.


Yes, I'm not too concerned about getting back to MSP, it would just be an added bonus.

Would you mind elaborating on why UIUC is the clear choice? (That reads sarcastic, but I am honestly interested in knowing your reasoning)

Wingtip88
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby Wingtip88 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:37 pm

JMWZ wrote:
Wingtip88 wrote:Here's a breakdown of the estimated fees: http://www.registrar.illinois.edu/g-fees-cr-1516


Hmm, do you have any idea how they arrived with this fee estimate?
https://www.law.illinois.edu/admissions ... d-expenses


The link I provided is per semester, the law website has the estimate for the entire year

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Iowa v. Illinois

Postby zombie mcavoy » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:54 pm

JMWZ wrote:
zombie mcavoy wrote:I would retake and go to UMN.

If you're not going to retake UIUC is hands down the better option. I wouldn't go to Iowa. Don't expect either to get you to Minneapolis, though.


Yes, I'm not too concerned about getting back to MSP, it would just be an added bonus.

Would you mind elaborating on why UIUC is the clear choice? (That reads sarcastic, but I am honestly interested in knowing your reasoning)

employers hold it in a much higher regard (ie its placement stats are far better). Neither is exactly portable but UIUC has a better reputation in the region and sends a good chunk of people into Chicago. Iowa 1) sucks, and 2) has a tiny legal market that is very insular that you, as a minnesotan, will underperform in. It'd be fine to go there with that debt load but you're going to be pretty limited outcome-wise compared to UIUC.

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DaRascal
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Re: Iowa (full tuition) v. Illinois (full tuition)

Postby DaRascal » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:59 pm

If you want to go to a T25, pick Iowa. It seems like UIUC is a wannabe midwestern Fordham.

Here's an analogy... Iowa is the HS dude who is friendly, honest, and who comes to school every day in the same three sets of plain clothes and paper bags his lunch. Illnois is the guy who comes in rocking the newest And1's, downloads every Top 40 song to his ipod even though deep inside he knows they all stink, reads up on up to the minute teen fashion trends to find out what he'll wear the next day, and ditches his childhood computer nerd friends for the cool crowd as soon as these mannerisms and his newly acquired lexacon of hip slang earns him acceptance. You choose, bro! :lol:



(Iowa)

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Rigo
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Re: Iowa (full tuition) v. Illinois (full tuition)

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:06 pm

Iowa has DaRascal. That's a consideration.

bl1nds1ght
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Re: Iowa (full tuition) v. Illinois (full tuition)

Postby bl1nds1ght » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:23 pm

I voted Illinois.

1. Better biglaw placement by ~10% over Iowa (~25% vs. ~15%).

Honestly, that's really the only reason. Otherwise, they strike me as nearly identical schools that both feed into the Midwest and that would both give you a good education.

If you really reeeeaaally wanted anti-trust, then consider going to Iowa, but I dn't see how the same type of career isn't going to be available to you out of IL.

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Iowa (full tuition) v. Illinois (full tuition)

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:27 pm

bl1nds1ght wrote:I voted Illinois.

1. Better biglaw placement by ~10% over Iowa (~25% vs. ~15%).

Honestly, that's really the only reason. Otherwise, they strike me as nearly identical schools that both feed into the Midwest and that would both give you a good education.

If you really reeeeaaally wanted anti-trust, then consider going to Iowa, but I dn't see how the same type of career isn't going to be available to you out of IL.

Yeah, it seems like the only way you will be significantly more likely to work in antitrust coming from Iowa is if you (a) happen to get a Research Assistant position with Hovenkamp (which I imagine is unlikely since they're probably highly coveted) and (b) he happens to like you obscene amounts and somehow help you get a job doing antitrust law.

I just searched the Antitrust Section of the ABA on LinkedIn and there are 15 Iowa grads and 10 UIUC grads. Did you try binding ED for the full scholarship at George Washington this cycle? If not, might want to consider waiting and trying for it next cycle. A lot more of their grads end up in the antitrust field.




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