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zaetoroftheprotoss
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Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:35 am

Thanks everyone for their opinion!
Last edited by zaetoroftheprotoss on Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:45 am

Nice username.

I'd probably go to Stanford here unless Columbia or Chicago ups their aid offer to $75k+. The facts that you could maybe live at home for SLS and you want to be in tech policy are compelling enough to overcome the Chicago scholarship here IMO.

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2014
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby 2014 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:49 am

It's SLS at this point and not even close. Not retaking is pretty stupid though regardless of your work schedule. You are 2-3 points from a Ruby at UChi which would save you 200 grand and mesh with your academia goals. Those are 2-3 points make you competitive for Yale as well which has better academia placement than everywhere else by a tangible margin.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:50 am

Stanford seems to be the best option based on your goals & interests.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:12 am

2014 wrote:It's SLS at this point and not even close. Not retaking is pretty stupid though regardless of your work schedule. You are 2-3 points from a Ruby at UChi which would save you 200 grand and mesh with your academia goals. Those are 2-3 points make you competitive for Yale as well which has better academia placement than everywhere else by a tangible margin.


The retaking aspect is interesting. Would turning down an offer from SLS / HLS / Chicago in order to reapply next year make it more difficult to be admitted again?

Personally, I would prefer to go to SLS over YLS as I would prefer to be in the Bay Area over New Haven, but having a Ruby might change the equation because the debt load at any of these school at sticker is ridiculous.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:17 am

jbagelboy wrote:Nice username.


Thanks! I created this account years ago when I was still in my Starcraft phase :)

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:25 pm

zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
2014 wrote:It's SLS at this point and not even close. Not retaking is pretty stupid though regardless of your work schedule. You are 2-3 points from a Ruby at UChi which would save you 200 grand and mesh with your academia goals. Those are 2-3 points make you competitive for Yale as well which has better academia placement than everywhere else by a tangible margin.


The retaking aspect is interesting. Would turning down an offer from SLS / HLS / Chicago in order to reapply next year make it more difficult to be admitted again?

Personally, I would prefer to go to SLS over YLS as I would prefer to be in the Bay Area over New Haven, but having a Ruby might change the equation because the debt load at any of these school at sticker is ridiculous.

If I were you I'd just go to one of the lower T-14 for nearly free rather than pay 200k anywhere else. With your credentials landing a job is not going to be hard from any T-14. But I can understand taking Stanford if the DC/Policy/Academia stuff is really serious.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:45 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
2014 wrote:It's SLS at this point and not even close. Not retaking is pretty stupid though regardless of your work schedule. You are 2-3 points from a Ruby at UChi which would save you 200 grand and mesh with your academia goals. Those are 2-3 points make you competitive for Yale as well which has better academia placement than everywhere else by a tangible margin.


The retaking aspect is interesting. Would turning down an offer from SLS / HLS / Chicago in order to reapply next year make it more difficult to be admitted again?

Personally, I would prefer to go to SLS over YLS as I would prefer to be in the Bay Area over New Haven, but having a Ruby might change the equation because the debt load at any of these school at sticker is ridiculous.

If I were you I'd just go to one of the lower T-14 for nearly free rather than pay 200k anywhere else. With your credentials landing a job is not going to be hard from any T-14. But I can understand taking Stanford if the DC/Policy/Academia stuff is really serious.


+1

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:22 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:If I were you I'd just go to one of the lower T-14 for nearly free rather than pay 200k anywhere else. With your credentials landing a job is not going to be hard from any T-14. But I can understand taking Stanford if the DC/Policy/Academia stuff is really serious.


I'm pretty set on the policy side of things - looking at getting an MPP from SLS concurrently and doing pretty serious research once I hit law school to build my bona fides. I guess this is more of a sense check for me whether, despite knowing that law school will help me achieve my end goals, the ~300K debt load at the time of graduation is ultimately worth walking such a path.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby UnicornHunter » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:27 pm

zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:If I were you I'd just go to one of the lower T-14 for nearly free rather than pay 200k anywhere else. With your credentials landing a job is not going to be hard from any T-14. But I can understand taking Stanford if the DC/Policy/Academia stuff is really serious.


I'm pretty set on the policy side of things - looking at getting an MPP from SLS concurrently and doing pretty serious research once I hit law school to build my bona fides. I guess this is more of a sense check for me whether, despite knowing that law school will help me achieve my end goals, the ~300K debt load at the time of graduation is ultimately worth walking such a path.


I guess the warning I'd raise here is a lot of policy related jobs aren't going to be PSLF eligible. I'm not sure what Stanford's repayment program looks like, but being that deep in the hole might actually keep you from doing what you want to do.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:35 pm

If I told you that you could have your dream policy job in DC tomorrow but you'd have to accept a 300k loan balance to take it, would you? I know that's a tough one to answer in the abstract but that's pretty much what we're dealing with. The best case scenario of Stanford-->dream job, for me, would not be worth it (assuming it's not LRAP/PSLF eligible), but you might calculate things differently.
Last edited by Tiago Splitter on Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:35 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
I guess the warning I'd raise here is a lot of policy related jobs aren't going to be PSLF eligible. I'm not sure what Stanford's repayment program looks like, but being that deep in the hole might actually keep you from doing what you want to do.


Tiago Splitter wrote:If I told you that you could have your dream policy job in DC tomorrow but you'd have to accept a 300k loan balance to take it, would you? I know that's a tough one to answer in the abstract but that's pretty much what we're dealing with. The best case scenario of Stanford-->dream job, for me, would not be worth it (assuming it's not LRAP/PSLF eligible), but you might calculate things differently.


Hmm that's a good point (and this would apply to all schools as the debt would be insane regardless of where I go). My guess is that I would be forced to look for a BL position for a few years before feeling comfortable with leaving for something more in-line with my interests. Jw, do clerkships / things like the honors program at DOJ count for LRAP?
Last edited by zaetoroftheprotoss on Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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leslieknope
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby leslieknope » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:38 pm

zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
TheUnicornHunter wrote:
I guess the warning I'd raise here is a lot of policy related jobs aren't going to be PSLF eligible. I'm not sure what Stanford's repayment program looks like, but being that deep in the hole might actually keep you from doing what you want to do.



Hmm that's a good point. My guess is that I would be forced to look for a BL position for a few years. Jw, do clerkships / things like the honors program at DOJ count for LRAP?

Not sure how it works at SLS but HLS's LRAP covers DOJ/other BigFed and covers clerkships if you intend to take an LRAP-eligible job after your clerkship is over. It also covers legal academia. I imagine that SLS's is similar, though someone who knows should probably be the one to confirm.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:40 pm

leslieknope wrote:
Not sure how it works at SLS but HLS's LRAP covers DOJ/other BigFed and covers clerkship if you intend to take an LRAP-eligible job after your clerkship is over. It also covers legal academia. I imagine that SLS's is similar, though someone who knows should probably be the one to confirm.


That's really interesting because I thought academia typically doesn't get covered by LRAP. If SLS does cover academia, that changes the calculus.

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leslieknope
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby leslieknope » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:01 pm

zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
leslieknope wrote:
Not sure how it works at SLS but HLS's LRAP covers DOJ/other BigFed and covers clerkship if you intend to take an LRAP-eligible job after your clerkship is over. It also covers legal academia. I imagine that SLS's is similar, though someone who knows should probably be the one to confirm.


That's really interesting because I thought academia typically doesn't get covered by LRAP. If SLS does cover academia, that changes the calculus.


So I got curious and did some googling and it looks like academia coverage may just be an HLS thing. Here's LIPP's page on eligible employment:

LIPP is available for Harvard Law School JD Program graduates who work in any full-time job for a government, nonprofit [501(c)(3)] or academic organization (nonprofit only) in the USA, or in an overseas equivalent.


Here's SLS's, which doesn't mention academia. Looks like both have clerkship coverage if you intend to take an LRAP eligible job afterwards, though.

Again, all I know is shit on the website, so hopefully someone who actually knows will see this and clarify for both of us.

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LoganCouture
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby LoganCouture » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:03 pm

leslieknope wrote:
zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
leslieknope wrote:
Not sure how it works at SLS but HLS's LRAP covers DOJ/other BigFed and covers clerkship if you intend to take an LRAP-eligible job after your clerkship is over. It also covers legal academia. I imagine that SLS's is similar, though someone who knows should probably be the one to confirm.


That's really interesting because I thought academia typically doesn't get covered by LRAP. If SLS does cover academia, that changes the calculus.


So I got curious and did some googling and it looks like academia coverage may just be an HLS thing. Here's LIPP's page on eligible employment:

LIPP is available for Harvard Law School JD Program graduates who work in any full-time job for a government, nonprofit [501(c)(3)] or academic organization (nonprofit only) in the USA, or in an overseas equivalent.


Here's SLS's, which doesn't mention academia. Looks like both have clerkship coverage if you intend to take an LRAP eligible job afterwards, though.

Again, all I know is shit on the website, so hopefully someone who actually knows will see this and clarify for both of us.


From your link on SLS LRAP:
A note on teaching and research fellowships: Full-time teaching in any setting is not considered qualifying public interest employment by the Program. However, graduates engaged in clinical law teaching with a practical component may be eligible for LRAP benefits. In addition, post-graduate fellowships at academic institutions for research or teaching will be treated in the same fashion as judicial clerkships for the purposes of LRAP. If a graduate does not enter public interest practice after the fellowship, the loan(s) provided by LRAP will become immediately repayable with interest accruing from the time the loan is made.
Last edited by LoganCouture on Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:27 pm

Hmmm...so if HLS does cover academia, would that make it a better fit from a goals perspective as opposed to Stanford?

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middlebear
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby middlebear » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:31 pm

zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:Hmmm...so if HLS does cover academia, would that make it a better fit from a goals perspective as opposed to Stanford?


It doesn't, per above, unless you're only teaching a clinic.

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2014
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby 2014 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:38 pm

Note that Yale's LRAP covers literally anything including completely non-legal work. Note also that a Ruby makes this debt discussion moot. Further cuts toward retake.

To answer your follow-up question, there's no evidence of a school holding ill will toward someone sitting out a cycle. When you withdraw offer some better reason than "I want more money next year" (say you want another year WE, family requires it, really anything) and you will be fine.

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:40 pm

middlebear wrote:
zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:Hmmm...so if HLS does cover academia, would that make it a better fit from a goals perspective as opposed to Stanford?


It doesn't, per above, unless you're only teaching a clinic.


I believe that was with regards to stanford's LRAP.

From the Harvard LIPP page http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/basics-for-prospective-and-admitted-students/financial-aid-for-public-service/how-to-compare-lraps/:

LIPP covers all nonprofit/government/academic jobs (whether law-related or not), and also covers law-related private sector jobs (like small firm jobs, firms outside of major cities, for-profit academic institutions, or “in-house counsel” for small businesses).

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LoganCouture
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby LoganCouture » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:18 pm

zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:
middlebear wrote:
zaetoroftheprotoss wrote:Hmmm...so if HLS does cover academia, would that make it a better fit from a goals perspective as opposed to Stanford?


It doesn't, per above, unless you're only teaching a clinic.


I believe that was with regards to stanford's LRAP.

From the Harvard LIPP page http://hls.harvard.edu/dept/sfs/basics-for-prospective-and-admitted-students/financial-aid-for-public-service/how-to-compare-lraps/:

LIPP covers all nonprofit/government/academic jobs (whether law-related or not), and also covers law-related private sector jobs (like small firm jobs, firms outside of major cities, for-profit academic institutions, or “in-house counsel” for small businesses).


Yeah my post was about SLS.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby Nomo » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:27 pm

Your chances of getting academia are so small that I wouldn't worry a lot about whether its covered under the LRAP. Even if academia is covered, how much money are you really getting from the LRAP when you're making a law professor's salary?

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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:04 pm

I guess Stanford, but goddamn that's expensive.

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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby Big Dog » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:22 pm

SSL is the easy answer here

zaetoroftheprotoss
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Re: Chicago ($) vs. Berkeley/SLS/CLS/HLS (sticker)

Postby zaetoroftheprotoss » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:22 am

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful opinions!

Two follow-up questions:
1) Would it make sense to let Chicago / CLS know that I have been admitted to S / H during fin aid negotiations?
2) How common is it to find outside grants / scholarships to help offset some of the costs? Is it similar to college in that there are a number of grant / scholarship sources out there for law students?




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