Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

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Brooklyn ($$) v. Cardozo ($$)

Brooklyn
5
63%
Cardozo
3
38%
 
Total votes: 8

wildcats1991
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Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby wildcats1991 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:00 pm

Interested in Corporate Law/Securities and would love to practice in NYC.

Brooklyn-25k a year(top 80%). COA: 54K

Cardozo-20K a year(top 80%). COA: 99K

Will be attending law school in the fall. Any positive input is greatly appreciated!

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landshoes
is that cool?
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:02 pm

Ask for much more money or don't go.

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Winston1984
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:08 pm

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

wildcats1991
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:34 pm

Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby wildcats1991 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:35 pm

According to U.S. News & World Report, the median starting salaries between Brooklyn and Cardozo in the private sector is $18K. Do grads earn more or less from either school(is this consistent each year)? Does Cardozo's reputation justify the additional money I would have to repay? Thanks! I am not from NYC so any input is greatly appreciated.

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Winston1984
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:47 pm

Winston1984 wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

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deadpanic
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby deadpanic » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:04 pm

wildcats1991 wrote:Interested in Corporate Law/Securities and would love to practice in NYC.

Brooklyn-25k a year(top 80%). COA: 54K

Cardozo-20K a year(top 80%). COA: 99K

Will be attending law school in the fall. Any positive input is greatly appreciated!


How is your COA so little if you are not from NY and only got 20-25k/year? I do not think you have your true cost of attendance figure down yet.

Further, that practice area is almost exclusively in BigLaw firms; these schools give you a terrible shot at BigLaw.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:36 pm

NEITHER
E
I
T
H
E
R

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Jessicakes90
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Jessicakes90 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:39 pm

Worked in a few BigLaw firms in NYC... Cardozo has some leverage. Don't get me wrong, it's certainly nowhere near the same leverage as Columbia/NYU, but there are a small handful 'Dozo partners who look out for their own. I think the same goes for BLS, but I can't really speak to that. Still, it's a tough market coming from either school, and definitely a tough market if you're looking outside of NYC.

I'd ask for a ton more money though... or sit out the cycle and re-take/re-apply this fall.

Nomo
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Nomo » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:53 pm

With your career goals, neither law schools make sense - and certainly not at the prices we're talking about. You sound like someone who isn't going to be swayed. But I really hope you'll rethink this. You're making a huge mistake.

wildcats1991
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby wildcats1991 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:58 pm

The numbers above are only tuition costs.

Adding rent:

Brooklyn COA 3 years: 99K (54K + 45K dorm housing)
Cardozo COA 3 years:159K (99K + 60K dorm housing)

Parents will be helping with food, books, and other expenses.

And I understand Big Law is difficult to obtain from either. Taken the LSAT 3 times. Re-take is not option. Please do not say dont go to law school, because I am going to law school.

Also, If not big law, which school would provide better opportunities to work in house for a corporation? Wall Street( I have an extensive business background)?

*I need to make a decision by the deposit deadline so any information or distinguishing factors that separate these schools please post! Thanks!*

TheOnePercent
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby TheOnePercent » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:00 pm

wildcats1991 wrote:Please do not say dont go to law school, because I am going to law school.

*sigh*

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby MarkfromWI » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:08 pm

wildcats1991 wrote:The numbers above are only tuition costs.

Adding rent:

Brooklyn COA 3 years: 99K (54K + 45K dorm housing)
Cardozo COA 3 years:159K (99K + 60K dorm housing)

Parents will be helping with food, books, and other expenses.

And I understand Big Law is difficult to obtain from either. Taken the LSAT 3 times. Re-take is not option. Please do not say dont go to law school, because I am going to law school.

Also, If not big law, which school would provide better opportunities to work in house for a corporation? Wall Street( I have an extensive business background)?

*I need to make a decision by the deposit deadline so any information or distinguishing factors that separate these schools please post! Thanks!*


The vast majority (and I mean VAST majority) of in-house jobs aren't available straight out of law school. Moreover, established companies aren't looking for just any experience either; it's biglaw experience they're looking for. As for Wall Street, I have no personal experience or knowledge, but if I had to guess, I imagine they've got lines of people with equal (or better) experience who have Columbia or Harvard written on their diplomas.

I'm not trying to bring you down at all, but you need to readjust your expectations of what is realistic and possible from Cardozo and Brooklyn. The jobs it sounds like you're after aren't easily achievable from either place.

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deadpanic
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby deadpanic » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:11 pm

wildcats1991 wrote:Also, If not big law, which school would provide better opportunities to work in house for a corporation? Wall Street( I have an extensive business background)?


Again, none of the above. You have to work in big law for years before you get a crack at these ultra competitive jobs.

These schools will simply not get you the type of law you want. A good outcome from these schools will be getting a personal injury gig on Long Island making 45k/year or a PD/DA job making about the same, which are super competitive and require a demonstrated interest from the moment you started law school.

wildcats1991
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby wildcats1991 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:19 pm

No one is really answering the question. If you arnt going to post something constructive do not post at all. Focus more on your perception of the schools (IN COMPARISON TO ONE ANOTHER) not on my personal decision to attend law school or relevant Law School Transparency data or whatever else is prompting some of the elitist responses above.

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transferror
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby transferror » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:33 pm

You really shouldn't attend either, but these schools are peer schools in that their placement is equally awful, so attend the cheaper one if you're going to attend one and disregard objectively good advice.

Brooklyn for 100k is a bad decision (but the best of your two options) b/c you'll have less than a 60% chance of finding a job as an attorney, much less a job that will allow you to pay off 100k in loans.

Do what you will but that's reality.

NonTradLawHopeful
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby NonTradLawHopeful » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:39 pm

wildcats1991 wrote:No one is really answering the question. If you arnt going to post something constructive do not post at all. Focus more on your perception of the schools (IN COMPARISON TO ONE ANOTHER) not on my personal decision to attend law school or relevant Law School Transparency data or whatever else is prompting some of the elitist responses above.


Don't ask if to don't want the answers. These are typical replies on this forum.

TheOnePercent
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby TheOnePercent » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:22 pm

What are you passionate about? How will a law degree help you realize that? Why do you even want to attend? If you're interested in such disparate outcomes such as "Wall St." - to what extent have you researched alternative means to get from point A to point B that are more efficient/cost effective than law school?

BigZuck
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:27 pm

Just use your extensive business background to get a job on Wall Street, it will almost certainly be better than whatever lawyer job you can get from one of these schools.

wildcats1991
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby wildcats1991 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:34 pm

Which Law School has better prestige in they eyes of employers? I understand both are not on the same level as Columbia/nyu/fordham. Essentially, which degree will get me farther in NYC and possibly outside of NYC(Yes, I understand they both do not travel well).

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby MarkfromWI » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:49 pm

wildcats1991 wrote:No one is really answering the question. If you arnt going to post something constructive do not post at all. Focus more on your perception of the schools (IN COMPARISON TO ONE ANOTHER) not on my personal decision to attend law school or relevant Law School Transparency data or whatever else is prompting some of the elitist responses above.


Just because it's not what you want to hear doesn't mean it's not constructive. These schools aren't going to get you to Wall Street and straight from law school to in-house doesn't happen from any school. Telling you your goals aren't realistic is constructive advice; it's so that you don't make a massive financial decision with unrealistic expectations. And elitist? Dude, I go to a state flagship; I'm not one of those folks who is T14 or bust.

Honestly, the advice on this forum may sound blunt but it's well-intentioned. It's aimed with the hope of preventing people from making horrible, potentially life-ruinous decisions.

wildcats1991 wrote:Focus more on your perception of the schools (IN COMPARISON TO ONE ANOTHER)


When people tell you "neither" that is their perception of the schools. They don't perceive either of them being worth money. Your questions are being answered. Not our fault that you refuse to hear the answers you're getting.

TheOnePercent
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby TheOnePercent » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:46 pm

What Mark said is fair and accurate.

If you really want to ordinally rank the two - look at their ABA placement stats (BL+clerk data). The numbers will be low, but will give you an objective measure of how the legal labor market values graduates from each school (both absolute and relative measures).

timbs4339
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:00 pm

You need to understand that you're essentially asking us whether to bet on the Knicks or the Magic to win the NBA finals this year and then telling us just to pick one and not tell you to waste your money in the first place.

To me, you sound like someone who wants to do one specific thing- be a corporate lawyer. Unfortunately, Dozo and BLS are not schools for people who want to be corporate lawyers. They do not place very many students in biglaw SA positions, which are prerequistes for biglaw associate jobs, which are prerequisites for in house jobs at Goldman or Chase. You do not sound like you'd be happy as a public defender or a tort lawyer or a family lawyer.

Now its not literally impossible to get a biglaw job from Dozo/BLS. Some people do it each year, but we're talking 10% of the class. And once you miss out on a biglaw job during interview season fall 2L, you are out. You don't get to polish up your resume and apply again. You don't work for three years at the DA office and reapply with some experience. You get one shot. So you need to make the most of it by going to a school that gives you a reasonable shot in the first place.

If you do not want to do that, then please do not come back here in three years when your above-median from Dozo strikes out at OCI and you are wondering whether Joe's LI PI firm will hire you.

kingpin101
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby kingpin101 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:09 pm

Look, I understand where you're coming from. You've worked to get your LSAT score and committed your life to going to law school. To hear that your law school choices suck would result in a great deal of cognitive dissonance. But please, look around TLS and see for yourself why people are saying don't go at those prices.

Winter is Coming
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby Winter is Coming » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:15 pm

OP, a lot of times in threads like this some resident troll pops in and says: "Follow your dreams, I know a partner who went to Brooklyn in the 70s, so you can do it too. Screw TLS and their T14 mentality".

The fact that that hasn't happened is evidence you really need to reevaluate. NYC is way too saturated a market to attend one of these schools at these prices (full ride would obviously be a much different story).

BaileyJohnson
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Re: Cardozo ($$) v. Brooklyn ($$)

Postby BaileyJohnson » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:47 pm

I don't understand, do you people--and by people I mean anyone who believes that going to Brooklyn or Cardozo law school shouldn't even be an option--actually think that nobody from Cardozo or BLS can get a good job? If OP wants to go to law school, which you all continue to disregard, why not just answer his question as opposed to doing exactly what he has asks you all not to do?

Now, OP, if I was in your situation I would choose BLS. However, bear in mind, you will probably need to hit it out of the ballpark at both schools if you want to get a job paying north of 100k.




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