WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

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Zadleez
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WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Zadleez » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:12 pm

I am considering WashU, SLU, and Mizzou.

LSAT: 160
GPA: 3.93 w/majors in Political Science and Economics at Mizzou

My scholarships are WashU- 15k per year (Tuition is about 50k per year)
SLU- 31k per year (Tuition is about 39k per year)
Mizzou- Full ride

I am from St. Louis and have lived there all my life until I left for Mizzou where I am currently an undergrad. If I go to SLU or WashU I can live with my parents who will basically pay for all of my cost of living. So the cost of attendance is basically the tuition for both of the St. Louis schools.

Cost of Attendance WashU- 35k per year
SLU- 8k per year
Mizzou- 10k per year
I will finance this all with federal loans.

As far as my preferred job location, St. Louis would be slightly preferable, and initially I will try to target jobs there. However, if the opportunity arises to have a great job somewhere else I will definitely take it. I would like to be in big law, but at this point I don't think my preference towards big law is large enough to justify spending 100k extra at WashU. I've been thinking most about corporate law since I'm getting a degree in economics and so anything dealing with money generally interests me. On the other hand, I don't want to lock into a specific type of law right now because there may be some future legal experiences that may shape my career goals.

I've only taken the LSAT once. I have thought about taking it again, but I would really rather not do that. The hassle of taking the LSAT, and the fact that there is no guarantee that I would get a higher score scares me a little.

I would really like to get WashU. Its employment statistics are markedly better, and its chances for higher quality jobs are better. This past week I showed my other scholarship offers to WashU and asked for an increase in my scholarship. I won't know the results of that until at least next week.

What would you guys recommend for me?

Thanks for the help!

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Mullens
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Mullens » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:18 pm

You're gonna get a chorus of retakes, and rightly so. If you want biglaw, you absolutely have to retake the LSAT and aim higher.

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RareExports
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby RareExports » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:20 am

Given your current options--SLU.

But, even a few points higher could put you in full tuition at WUSTL territory. So you're gonna get a lot of people telling you to retake.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:57 am

Zadleez wrote:I've only taken the LSAT once. I have thought about taking it again, but I would really rather not do that. The hassle of taking the LSAT, and the fact that there is no guarantee that I would get a higher score scares me a little.



Ayy lmao

Zadleez
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Zadleez » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:35 am

Thanks guys! I definitely expected the retake responses haha. I guess I'm just worried that I delay law school to take the LSAT again, and I just end up with the same exact score I had before. Then I have to go through the whole process again and who knows if I get the same scholarships. It feels like a risk to me. Plus, that would feel like such a waste of a year. If I had some decent job lined up I wouldn't feel that way, but I don't really have any jobs in mind.

As far as the big law thing, I'm one of those people who can be content in pretty much any situation. I've always had it in my head to go for big law just because they are the most desirable jobs. It would make me happiest to be in a big law job, but I could see myself being happy with other outcomes.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby PeanutsNJam » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:38 am

Your GPA is above HYS median. Let that marinate for a while, and then go retake the LSAT. A 160 is easy to improve. If you can get 166, you're looking at CCN acceptances and money at lower T14 (people this cycle have gotten into CCN with like 3.7/166).

For example, if you retake, and get 170+, I will bet both my testicles you'll get:

At least 1 T6 acceptance (most likely 1 HYS and all of CCN, but I'm betting my testicles here guys)
20k/year at at least 1 T10
Full scholarship at at least 1 T14
Fully at T20 of your choice

If you top 175, you're looking at a full scholarship + stipend at CCN.

Right now, you're looking at random T1 schools, only one of which is marginally OK but isn't OK at a high cost.

And it's just one test homeboi.

And if you retake, and score lower, it won't hurt your application.

But seriously there's no way 160 is your ceiling.
Last edited by PeanutsNJam on Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KMart
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby KMart » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:17 am

I like PeanutsNJam.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby MarkfromWI » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:40 am

Zadleez wrote:Thanks guys! I definitely expected the retake responses haha. I guess I'm just worried that I delay law school to take the LSAT again, and I just end up with the same exact score I had before. Then I have to go through the whole process again and who knows if I get the same scholarships. It feels like a risk to me. Plus, that would feel like such a waste of a year. If I had some decent job lined up I wouldn't feel that way, but I don't really have any jobs in mind.
.


Getting work experience is literally the exact opposite of wasting a year; it's probably the second-best thing you could do to prepare for your legal career (behind retaking, obviously). You don't have anything lined up, but as an economics major you shouldn't have to hard of a time finding something. Go into Robert Half or Accountemps and they'll place you somewhere. Hell, be a mortgage underwriter or something. You only have to do it for a year and it will be fantastic to have on your resume come OCI time.

Also, PeanutsNJam is spot on

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downbeat14
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby downbeat14 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:26 am

.
Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zadleez
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Zadleez » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:31 am

This stuff may not change your guys' opinion but I thought I would just add some more information. When I took my practice LSAT without any studying I got a 155. I took a Kaplan course for about 8 hours each week for about 8 weeks. We took a practice test in the middle of that and got a 157. At the end of the course we took another practice test and I got a 158. So I was really happy when I got a 160 because it was higher than all of my practices.

Also I have an MIP on my record. I don't know of that changes my analysis as compared to a regular student.

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eriedoctrine
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby eriedoctrine » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:01 pm

Retake.

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Birdnals
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Birdnals » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:05 pm

Pretty recent similar thread/post for you to check out:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=245477#p8483105

If you have any questions still after reading through that post here and I will try to help clear them up.

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Winston1984
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Winston1984 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:31 pm

eriedoctrine wrote:Retake.

Zadleez
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Zadleez » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:16 am

Thanks for pointing me to that thread! It really helped. I just wish I could retake and guarantee that I could get the same scholarships even if I get a lower score. I know you guys are confident it won't affect my application, but it's still a fear that I have. The biggest one stopping me at this point. WashU has said that they would consider the June LSAT if I take it. That may be a good compromise, but that could easily just be a scam to increase their scores without paying me a whole lot for it.

I have seen the Law School Transparency reports on these schools and thought about them a lot. Mizzou is like 57% LT FT employment after 9 months, SLU is like 50%, and WashU is like 67%. How much stock do you guys put into those numbers? To be honest all of those scores seem pretty bleak. At least 1/3 of the class at every school doesn't get long-term, full-time employment just sounds risky for every school. I guess that's probably the reason everyone wants me to retake haha

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Fiero85 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:16 am

^OP I'm from STL and on a full scholarship at WUSTL and still don't exactly have enviable employment prospects.

Please consider that as a minimum goal, you're only one good attempt at a retake away from that (~165) and perhaps much more (166+). That is like half a dozen LSAT questions over the course of the exam in exchange for a huge reward. Think long term and be smart.

P.s. It's not your fault because you had no way of knowing this, but Kaplan sucks. They aim for good, not great or excellent. Use Powerscore or Manhattan or something better. Browse the stuff on here and good luck with the retake!

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KMart
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby KMart » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:41 am

I found Cambridge packets to be the most helpful. The courses generally just teach the basics. They're great if you're really unfamiliar with the tests, but once you get a foundational knowledge it's really easier to just do it on your own because you can focus in the areas where you need to be focusing.

Zadleez
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Zadleez » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:38 pm

I know they are nowhere near peer schools, (geographic peers but that's really a stretch) but I threw in a last ditch effort to try and negotiate. Worst comes to worse, I get no more money and retake.

Update: SLU increased my offer to $105,000.

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Hikikomorist
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:12 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Your GPA is above HYS median. Let that marinate for a while, and then go retake the LSAT. A 160 is easy to improve. If you can get 166, you're looking at CCN acceptances and money at lower T14 (people this cycle have gotten into CCN with like 3.7/166).

For example, if you retake, and get 170+, I will bet both my testicles you'll get:

At least 1 T6 acceptance (most likely 1 HYS and all of CCN, but I'm betting my testicles here guys)
20k/year at at least 1 T10
Full scholarship at at least 1 T14
Fully at T20 of your choice

If you top 175, you're looking at a full scholarship + stipend at CCN.

Right now, you're looking at random T1 schools, only one of which is marginally OK but isn't OK at a high cost.

And it's just one test homeboi.

And if you retake, and score lower, it won't hurt your application.

But seriously there's no way 160 is your ceiling.


Now OP has to retake and reapply in crayon, if for no other reason than that hearing about PeanutsNJam's bet fulfillment will be the best thing to ever happen to this site.

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL ($) v. SLU ($$) v. Mizzou ($$$)

Postby Fiero85 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:33 pm

Hikkomorist wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:Your GPA is above HYS median. Let that marinate for a while, and then go retake the LSAT. A 160 is easy to improve. If you can get 166, you're looking at CCN acceptances and money at lower T14 (people this cycle have gotten into CCN with like 3.7/166).

For example, if you retake, and get 170+, I will bet both my testicles you'll get:

At least 1 T6 acceptance (most likely 1 HYS and all of CCN, but I'm betting my testicles here guys)
20k/year at at least 1 T10
Full scholarship at at least 1 T14
Fully at T20 of your choice

If you top 175, you're looking at a full scholarship + stipend at CCN.

Right now, you're looking at random T1 schools, only one of which is marginally OK but isn't OK at a high cost.

And it's just one test homeboi.

And if you retake, and score lower, it won't hurt your application.

But seriously there's no way 160 is your ceiling.


Now OP has to retake and reapply in crayon, if for no other reason than that hearing about PeanutsNJam's bet fulfillment will be the best thing to ever happen to this site.


8) :lol:




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