NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

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White Dwarf
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby White Dwarf » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:13 pm

At the risk of sounding like a bro, can anyone compare the quality/accessibility of the gyms and athletic facilities at the two schools? I don't love the idea of running outdoors in NYC, especially during the cold season.

DK21
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DK21 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:25 pm

White Dwarf wrote:At the risk of sounding like a bro, can anyone compare the quality/accessibility of the gyms and athletic facilities at the two schools? I don't love the idea of running outdoors in NYC, especially during the cold season.

My tour guide at CLS said their gym sucks. Not sure about NYU.

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sims1
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby sims1 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:46 pm

DK21 wrote:
White Dwarf wrote:At the risk of sounding like a bro, can anyone compare the quality/accessibility of the gyms and athletic facilities at the two schools? I don't love the idea of running outdoors in NYC, especially during the cold season.

My tour guide at CLS said their gym sucks. Not sure about NYU.


NYU's is better, but still nothing amazing.

lumpkin
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby lumpkin » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:52 pm

Nebby

Why do you have a [HI I'M THE WORD FILTER. THIS PERSON MIGHT BE A DICK.] with a gun as your avatar?

user has been banned for triggering the word filter (and shitposting)

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby wons » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:55 pm

Like the substantial majority of cross-admits, I also chose CLS over NYU. Now that I'm several years out of school, I'm glad I did.

Simply put, law is a professional school. Therefore, the most important aspect of a law school - the ONLY aspect, really - is its ability to help you get the job you want. I wanted to be a transactional lawyer; Columbia has a slight - but real - placement advantage over NYU across the board at the top wall street firms, in that firms will go ever-so-slightly deeper into CLS than NYU. (This is largely anecdotal, but I'm senior enough and have friends at enough firms in the city involved in recruiting to be 99% certain of its truth).

After my 1L year, I was roughly at the 30th percentile at CLS. My firm went to the 30th percentile at CLS. I'm pretty sure it does not drop that deep at NYU.

So the job I have today, 8 years after I made my decision, is IMO directly attributable to going to CLS over NYU.

Now, your mileage might vary, even if you are (correctly) focused on a job. If you don't want to work at a big NY firm but want to do PI work, well, I've heard that NYU is superior. Certainly, I wouldn't value the placement advantage of CLS that highly over NYU - if I had to pull a number out of my ass, I'd value it at about $15,000 or so.

But if you want to be a big firm lawyer, and the money is equal, I would always pick CLS, because you never know if you're going to end up right on the cusp and then you'll be kicking yourself when you're working at a second tier firm instead of Davis Polk.

All this stuff about intellectual stimulation and whatnot is just noise and marketing, from both sides, and you should not be stupid enough to fall for it if you are smart enough to have this choice. Neighborhood is a real consideration - if you strongly prefer GV to Morningside, I could see valuing that as much or more than the placement advantage from CLS. Similarly, with couples housing, if you have a SO - that's a point in favor of CLS.
Last edited by wons on Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby lumpkin » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:56 pm

Sunshine is good...until it gives you melanoma. Kittens are cool until they become nasty predators that bring dead things they just chewed on to your door. Good things don't kill chipmunks.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:59 pm

wons wrote:Like the substantial majority of cross-admits, I also chose CLS over NYU. Now that I'm several years out of school, I'm glad I did.

Simply put, law is a professional school. Therefore, the most important aspect of a law school - the ONLY aspect, really - is its ability to help you get the job you want. I wanted to be a transactional lawyer; Columbia has a slight - but real - placement advantage over NYU across the board at the top wall street firms, in that firms will go ever-so-slightly deeper into CLS than NYU. (This is largely anecdotal, but I'm senior enough and have friends at enough firms in the city involved in recruiting to be 99% certain of its truth).

After my 1L year, I was roughly at the 30th percentile at CLS. My firm went to the 30th percentile at CLS. I'm pretty sure it does not drop that deep at NYU.

So the job I have today, 8 years after I made my decision, is IMO directly attributable to going to CLS over NYU.

Now, your mileage might vary, even if you are (correctly) focused on a job. If you don't want to work at a big NY firm but want to do PI work, well, I've heard that NYU is superior. Certainly, I wouldn't value the placement advantage of NYU that highly over CLS - if I had to pull a number out of my ass, I'd value it at about $15,000 or so.

But if you want to be a big firm lawyer, and the money is equal, I would always pick CLS, because you never know if you're going to end up right on the cusp and then you'll be kicking yourself when you're working at a second tier firm instead of Davis Polk.

All this stuff about intellectual stimulation and whatnot is just noise and marketing, from both sides, and you should not be stupid enough to fall for it if you are smart enough to have this choice. Neighborhood is a real consideration - if you strongly prefer GV to Morningside, I could see valuing that as much or more than the placement advantage from CLS. Similarly, with couples housing, if you have a SO - that's a point in favor of CLS.


OP is "primarily interested in PI"

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby wons » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:14 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
wons wrote:Like the substantial majority of cross-admits, I also chose CLS over NYU. Now that I'm several years out of school, I'm glad I did.

Simply put, law is a professional school. Therefore, the most important aspect of a law school - the ONLY aspect, really - is its ability to help you get the job you want. I wanted to be a transactional lawyer; Columbia has a slight - but real - placement advantage over NYU across the board at the top wall street firms, in that firms will go ever-so-slightly deeper into CLS than NYU. (This is largely anecdotal, but I'm senior enough and have friends at enough firms in the city involved in recruiting to be 99% certain of its truth).

After my 1L year, I was roughly at the 30th percentile at CLS. My firm went to the 30th percentile at CLS. I'm pretty sure it does not drop that deep at NYU.

So the job I have today, 8 years after I made my decision, is IMO directly attributable to going to CLS over NYU.

Now, your mileage might vary, even if you are (correctly) focused on a job. If you don't want to work at a big NY firm but want to do PI work, well, I've heard that NYU is superior. Certainly, I wouldn't value the placement advantage of NYU that highly over CLS - if I had to pull a number out of my ass, I'd value it at about $15,000 or so.

But if you want to be a big firm lawyer, and the money is equal, I would always pick CLS, because you never know if you're going to end up right on the cusp and then you'll be kicking yourself when you're working at a second tier firm instead of Davis Polk.

All this stuff about intellectual stimulation and whatnot is just noise and marketing, from both sides, and you should not be stupid enough to fall for it if you are smart enough to have this choice. Neighborhood is a real consideration - if you strongly prefer GV to Morningside, I could see valuing that as much or more than the placement advantage from CLS. Similarly, with couples housing, if you have a SO - that's a point in favor of CLS.


OP is "primarily interested in PI"


My personal experience is that 90% of the folks "primarily interested in PI" when applying to school, end up at a big firm. Question is whether OP is one of those serious PI ninjas who is going to gun like hell for a PI job that pays shit compared to a firm job. If OP is one of those people, then the calculus obviously is very different.

03152016
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:16 pm

note to 0Ls:
there are some completely unsubstantiated claims in this thread, made by people speaking well outside of their area of expertise
it does a great disservice to the board, regardless of whether or not these posters concede it's speculative, because of the high potential to mislead

anecdotes and inferences can be useful in making a decision about where to go to law school
but on a (mostly) anonymous internet forum, there simply isn't a basis for you, the prospective law student, to determine which claims are true and which are homerism
i recommend that you take any unsourced and unsupported statement with a grain of salt, unless the poster demonstrates they can speak credibly w/r/t that specific area

i made very regrettable errors during my cycle because i had too much faith in anecdotes and conventional wisdom
you can avoid that if you take the time to read posts carefully and consider how credible and well-supported they are

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:18 pm

Brut wrote:note to 0Ls:
there are some completely unsubstantiated claims in this thread, made by people speaking well outside of their area of expertise
it does a great disservice to the board, regardless of whether or not these posters concede it's speculative, because of the high potential to mislead

anecdotes and inferences can be useful in making a decision about where to go to law school
but on a (mostly) anonymous internet forum, there simply isn't a basis for you, the prospective law student, to determine which claims are true and which are homerism
i recommend that you take any unsourced and unsupported statement with a grain of salt, unless the poster demonstrates they can speak credibly w/r/t that specific area

i made very regrettable errors during my cycle because i had too much faith in anecdotes and conventional wisdom
you can avoid that if you take the time to read posts carefully and consider how credible and well-supported they are


like what

03152016
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:20 pm

i thought you knew
you can pm me about it

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:34 pm

wons wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
wons wrote:Like the substantial majority of cross-admits, I also chose CLS over NYU. Now that I'm several years out of school, I'm glad I did.

Simply put, law is a professional school. Therefore, the most important aspect of a law school - the ONLY aspect, really - is its ability to help you get the job you want. I wanted to be a transactional lawyer; Columbia has a slight - but real - placement advantage over NYU across the board at the top wall street firms, in that firms will go ever-so-slightly deeper into CLS than NYU. (This is largely anecdotal, but I'm senior enough and have friends at enough firms in the city involved in recruiting to be 99% certain of its truth).

After my 1L year, I was roughly at the 30th percentile at CLS. My firm went to the 30th percentile at CLS. I'm pretty sure it does not drop that deep at NYU.

So the job I have today, 8 years after I made my decision, is IMO directly attributable to going to CLS over NYU.

Now, your mileage might vary, even if you are (correctly) focused on a job. If you don't want to work at a big NY firm but want to do PI work, well, I've heard that NYU is superior. Certainly, I wouldn't value the placement advantage of NYU that highly over CLS - if I had to pull a number out of my ass, I'd value it at about $15,000 or so.

But if you want to be a big firm lawyer, and the money is equal, I would always pick CLS, because you never know if you're going to end up right on the cusp and then you'll be kicking yourself when you're working at a second tier firm instead of Davis Polk.

All this stuff about intellectual stimulation and whatnot is just noise and marketing, from both sides, and you should not be stupid enough to fall for it if you are smart enough to have this choice. Neighborhood is a real consideration - if you strongly prefer GV to Morningside, I could see valuing that as much or more than the placement advantage from CLS. Similarly, with couples housing, if you have a SO - that's a point in favor of CLS.


OP is "primarily interested in PI"


My personal experience is that 90% of the folks "primarily interested in PI" when applying to school, end up at a big firm. Question is whether OP is one of those serious PI ninjas who is going to gun like hell for a PI job that pays shit compared to a firm job. If OP is one of those people, then the calculus obviously is very different.


Probably because many of them take on too much debt, which is stupid considering they want PI in the first place.

Ok, so Columbia does have better biglaw placement....but who the fuck cares what rank biglaw firm you're at. Most people don't make it past 5 years anyway and a lot of V10s are sweatshops. LOL at that shit mattering. What people SHOULD want regarding biglaw is a firm that bills on average less and refuses to fire people. Just ride that shit out without working too hard.

Since OP wants PI, I don't think OP should go to either of these schools. Take a full ride at a lower ranked school with COL paid for - you're going to be paid shit in PI and the government will probably rescind/cap all the repayment programs even more anyway. Plus your law school's "prestige" matters a lot less for most PI jobs than for biglaw.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:58 pm

wons wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
wons wrote:Like the substantial majority of cross-admits, I also chose CLS over NYU. Now that I'm several years out of school, I'm glad I did.

Simply put, law is a professional school. Therefore, the most important aspect of a law school - the ONLY aspect, really - is its ability to help you get the job you want. I wanted to be a transactional lawyer; Columbia has a slight - but real - placement advantage over NYU across the board at the top wall street firms, in that firms will go ever-so-slightly deeper into CLS than NYU. (This is largely anecdotal, but I'm senior enough and have friends at enough firms in the city involved in recruiting to be 99% certain of its truth).

After my 1L year, I was roughly at the 30th percentile at CLS. My firm went to the 30th percentile at CLS. I'm pretty sure it does not drop that deep at NYU.

So the job I have today, 8 years after I made my decision, is IMO directly attributable to going to CLS over NYU.

Now, your mileage might vary, even if you are (correctly) focused on a job. If you don't want to work at a big NY firm but want to do PI work, well, I've heard that NYU is superior. Certainly, I wouldn't value the placement advantage of NYU that highly over CLS - if I had to pull a number out of my ass, I'd value it at about $15,000 or so.

But if you want to be a big firm lawyer, and the money is equal, I would always pick CLS, because you never know if you're going to end up right on the cusp and then you'll be kicking yourself when you're working at a second tier firm instead of Davis Polk.

All this stuff about intellectual stimulation and whatnot is just noise and marketing, from both sides, and you should not be stupid enough to fall for it if you are smart enough to have this choice. Neighborhood is a real consideration - if you strongly prefer GV to Morningside, I could see valuing that as much or more than the placement advantage from CLS. Similarly, with couples housing, if you have a SO - that's a point in favor of CLS.


OP is "primarily interested in PI"


My personal experience is that 90% of the folks "primarily interested in PI" when applying to school, end up at a big firm. Question is whether OP is one of those serious PI ninjas who is going to gun like hell for a PI job that pays shit compared to a firm job. If OP is one of those people, then the calculus obviously is very different.


I can't speak to "hardcore" public interest work, which I'm sure NYU has better networks for, but this should not read too strongly to reaffirm the big law factory myth: Columbia does have under-appreciated number of graduates going into federal government work either directly or more commonly after working at a firm across the board, DOJ, State OLA, judiciary.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby wons » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:13 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:Probably because many of them take on too much debt, which is stupid considering they want PI in the first place.

Ok, so Columbia does have better biglaw placement....but who the fuck cares what rank biglaw firm you're at. Most people don't make it past 5 years anyway and a lot of V10s are sweatshops. LOL at that shit mattering. What people SHOULD want regarding biglaw is a firm that bills on average less and refuses to fire people. Just ride that shit out without working too hard.

Since OP wants PI, I don't think OP should go to either of these schools. Take a full ride at a lower ranked school with COL paid for - you're going to be paid shit in PI and the government will probably rescind/cap all the repayment programs even more anyway. Plus your law school's "prestige" matters a lot less for most PI jobs than for biglaw.



I can't overstate how wrong this is, and since these thread go into the search engine for posterity, it's important to set the record straight.

There is nothing more important than biglaw placement. Not because you work less - though it should be noted that generally the higher ranked firms have no hours requirements, which is a lifesaver when your practice area goes through a slow patch. Not because of the PRESTIGE, not because of the money because lord knows the money is the same everywhere.

One big, giant, hugely important reason:

Because for whatever irrational reason, your second job is going to be vastly better, on average, if you're applying after four years at Cleary compared to four years at, say, Milbank. (Or if we're talking about lit, if you've spent 3 years at the best practice group for your specialty instead of the third tier group, since that correlates much less strongly with Vault.)

If you care about where you go in house, or what firm you actually make a run at being a partner, or hell, if you want to leave the law altogether to go into business . . . if you don't think name firms don't have huge value in getting your second job, then you're in for a rude surprise about 4 years after you graduate law school.

Always, always, always go for the best firms in your preferred practice area and geography, and if you don't know what you want to do then go for the best firm generally. Because its a hell of a lot easier to lateral down than lateral up, and the law is a field obsessed with credentials and prestige.

(PS: none of this is a normative judgment as to whether the obsession in law with credentials and prestige is good. Because it's not good. But the rules of the game are clear, and don't play by them at your own risk)

(PPS: PI is just as bad as biglaw in this regard, same shit, different names. Heck, the gunning and credentialing is even more ferocious in PI because there are so few jobs for so many people, and lots of folks get shut out.)

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:47 pm

wons wrote: I can't overstate how wrong this is, and since these thread go into the search engine for posterity, it's important to set the record straight.

There is nothing more important than biglaw placement. Not because you work less - though it should be noted that generally the higher ranked firms have no hours requirements, which is a lifesaver when your practice area goes through a slow patch. Not because of the PRESTIGE, not because of the money because lord knows the money is the same everywhere.

One big, giant, hugely important reason:

Because for whatever irrational reason, your second job is going to be vastly better, on average, if you're applying after four years at Cleary compared to four years at, say, Milbank. (Or if we're talking about lit, if you've spent 3 years at the best practice group for your specialty instead of the third tier group, since that correlates much less strongly with Vault.)

If you care about where you go in house, or what firm you actually make a run at being a partner, or hell, if you want to leave the law altogether to go into business . . . if you don't think name firms don't have huge value in getting your second job, then you're in for a rude surprise about 4 years after you graduate law school.

Always, always, always go for the best firms in your preferred practice area and geography, and if you don't know what you want to do then go for the best firm generally. Because its a hell of a lot easier to lateral down than lateral up, and the law is a field obsessed with credentials and prestige.

(PS: none of this is a normative judgment as to whether the obsession in law with credentials and prestige is good. Because it's not good. But the rules of the game are clear, and don't play by them at your own risk)

(PPS: PI is just as bad as biglaw in this regard, same shit, different names. Heck, the gunning and credentialing is even more ferocious in PI because there are so few jobs for so many people, and lots of folks get shut out.)


I agree - the higher ranked firms have better in house opps. But Lord knows the practice of law isn't easy at many in house jobs and making it through 5 years of biglaw is hard enough.....IMO, most people hate practicing law and you're less likely to burn out if you're working less. (And frankly I personally know a fair number of people who burned out at places like Cravath etc. in less than a year. These people aren't even lawyers anymore. They left firm life for no job.)

As for going into business, doubt your firm name really matters if you're going to the business side (unless you mean you've networked with a client of a partner you're working for to get there). Also it's very unlikely to go from a law firm to business without a prior business background in the first place....so you're kind of fucked if that's what you want.

As for PI, where did you get that info? I'm married to a supervising attorney of a middle-prestige non profit in NYC and they are by far more obsessed with your dedication to PI than your school name. They regularly turn down NYU/Columbia grads. At a lot of PI jobs you have to work for free after graduation to get a full time offer, and your school isn't really going to do that much for you.
Last edited by BiglawAssociate on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:00 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:52 pm

do people ever leave biglaw for an mba? seems like itd be a good option if theyre looking to get out of law

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby LetsGoMets » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:23 am

BiglawAssociate wrote:As for PI, where did you get that info? I'm married to a supervising attorney of a middle-prestige non profit in NYC and they are by far more obsessed with your dedication to PI than your school name. They regularly turn down NYU/Columbia grads. At a lot of PI jobs you have to work for free after graduation to get a full time offer, and your school isn't really going to do that much for you.


Is there really such thing as a "middle-prestige non-profit"? I'm sure your spouse is highly accomplished, but it doesn't seem to me like PI gigs can really be ranked on a prestige basis. Sure you have your UNs and ACLUs (although they did just lay off 20% of their staff attorneys, which I guess is pretty prestigious), but what basis do you have for evaluating non-profits generally besides how much they show up in the media and high-profile cases? It doesn't take much to file an amicus in the Supreme Court.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:29 am

LetsGoMets wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:As for PI, where did you get that info? I'm married to a supervising attorney of a middle-prestige non profit in NYC and they are by far more obsessed with your dedication to PI than your school name. They regularly turn down NYU/Columbia grads. At a lot of PI jobs you have to work for free after graduation to get a full time offer, and your school isn't really going to do that much for you.


Is there really such thing as a "middle-prestige non-profit"? I'm sure your spouse is highly accomplished, but it doesn't seem to me like PI gigs can really be ranked on a prestige basis. Sure you have your UNs and ACLUs (although they did just lay off 20% of their staff attorneys, which I guess is pretty prestigious), but what basis do you have for evaluating non-profits generally besides how much they show up in the media and high-profile cases? It doesn't take much to file an amicus in the Supreme Court.


Biglawassociate could rank the prestige of your toilet paper and garnet collection. Don't feed

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby LetsGoMets » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:57 am

jbagelboy wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:As for PI, where did you get that info? I'm married to a supervising attorney of a middle-prestige non profit in NYC and they are by far more obsessed with your dedication to PI than your school name. They regularly turn down NYU/Columbia grads. At a lot of PI jobs you have to work for free after graduation to get a full time offer, and your school isn't really going to do that much for you.


Is there really such thing as a "middle-prestige non-profit"? I'm sure your spouse is highly accomplished, but it doesn't seem to me like PI gigs can really be ranked on a prestige basis. Sure you have your UNs and ACLUs (although they did just lay off 20% of their staff attorneys, which I guess is pretty prestigious), but what basis do you have for evaluating non-profits generally besides how much they show up in the media and high-profile cases? It doesn't take much to file an amicus in the Supreme Court.


Biglawassociate could rank the prestige of your toilet paper and garnet collection. Don't feed


There's a joke in here about BigTP vs. shitTP

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby wons » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:01 am

BiglawAssociate wrote:I agree - the higher ranked firms have better in house opps. But Lord knows the practice of law isn't easy at many in house jobs and making it through 5 years of biglaw is hard enough.....IMO, most people hate practicing law and you're less likely to burn out if you're working less. (And frankly I personally know a fair number of people who burned out at places like Cravath etc. in less than a year. These people aren't even lawyers anymore. They left firm life for no job.)

As for going into business, doubt your firm name really matters if you're going to the business side (unless you mean you've networked with a client of a partner you're working for to get there). Also it's very unlikely to go from a law firm to business without a prior business background in the first place....so you're kind of fucked if that's what you want.

As for PI, where did you get that info? I'm married to a supervising attorney of a middle-prestige non profit in NYC and they are by far more obsessed with your dedication to PI than your school name. They regularly turn down NYU/Columbia grads. At a lot of PI jobs you have to work for free after graduation to get a full time offer, and your school isn't really going to do that much for you.


OK, but your speculation as to biglaw burnout is something that's testable with statistics, and facts bear out that attorneys who start in biglaw end up working in biglaw for a fairly long time. Retention rates at year 5 in top NY firms are around 30%, but ~50% of associates leaving biglaw firms move to other biglaw firms. When you subtract out women leaving to have kids (which, IMO, is a very different consideration), true biglaw burnout rates by year 5 are remarkably low.

This is not to say that everyone likes their jobs. But they keep them. For a much longer time than this board advertises.

So you have to approach the law school decision with the following mindset -

(1) Unless you are VERY devoted to 'the cause' (or 'a cause'?) you are going to be working in biglaw. More likely than not, for 5-7 years.

(2) All biglaw firms will work you hard, and none work you materially less hard than others (as the sad folks from my law school who chased 'lifestyle' at the 'friendly' firms learned to their dismay). The differences between firms lie in the quality of the work you'll get (I've observed huge differences between firms, especially once you hit year 3 and there starts to be informal tracking), and, most importantly, in the exit options that will be available to you.

(3) Better law schools have better placement at better firms.

(4) This has value. Starting your career at Cravath means that your expected future earnings are significantly higher than if you start at Stroock. Biglaw jobs are not fungible.

(5) That's why, in theory, you shouldn't just look at "biglaw employment scores" when assessing schools, except that biglaw employment scores also seem to serve as a reasonable proxy for 'good' biglaw placement, so it might work in practice.

(6) What value to put on the better biglaw placement is difficult to assess, since you're discounting earnings from years in the future. It's not zero. It's also not $200,000. If you're talking about the difference between Columbia and NYU, its minimal. If its the difference between Columbia and Cornell . . . lets just say I'm not as high on taking Cornell's money as many in this forum. Too many college friends got really crappy biglaw jobs out of Cornell and when they got pushed out as midlevels, there was no job at a lower ranked firm to fall into. Musical firm chairs, as it were.

(7) "high impact" PI (that's the right euphemism these days, yes?) is just as bad as biglaw in this regard. As you go down the chain in "impact", devotion to the cause becomes more important.

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Nebby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Nebby » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:42 am

ITT big lawyers (or more likely students) opine on PI hiring.

NYU and CLS will give you the same PI employment outcomes, because PI hiring is much more about demonstrated commitment, personality, and grades. To a much lesser extent does school matter (between these two, anyway. It is different if you're talking NYU v. Brooklyn Law).

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NoBladesNoBows
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby NoBladesNoBows » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:09 pm

.
Last edited by NoBladesNoBows on Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Nebby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Nebby » Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:13 pm

NoBladesNoBows wrote:
wons wrote:All this stuff about intellectual stimulation and whatnot is just noise and marketing, from both sides, and you should not be stupid enough to fall for it if you are smart enough to have this choice. Neighborhood is a real consideration - if you strongly prefer GV to Morningside, I could see valuing that as much or more than the placement advantage from CLS. Similarly, with couples housing, if you have a SO - that's a point in favor of CLS.


Does NYU have no couples housing options, or just fewer options than CLS?

My friend at NYU loves that they have couples housing, so I know they at least have it. How much of it is a question I can't answer.

DK21
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DK21 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:12 pm

So I've been following the NYU and CLS twitter feeds and checking out their event calendars, and it seems like NYU's is much more interesting. NYU's had a couple of recent appearances from SCOTUS judges for instance. Looking over the CLS calendar, I see a lot less, but I'm not sure if I just don't know where to look or what. Is there a difference in the quality of lectures, talks, and otherwise intellectually stimulating events between the two schools?

This is not by itself a deciding factor by any means, but I am curious to know what actual students' impressions are.

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Nebby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Nebby » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:31 pm

Everyone goes for the free food. The actual question you should be asking is who has better food. This fart-huffing has gone on long enough.




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