NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

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LetsGoMets
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby LetsGoMets » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:33 pm

Do you have feelings on Morningside Heights vs. Greenwich Village? For me that was a significant factor, in that I find the (relative) quiet in Morningside way more hospitable than the Village.

bklynlady
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bklynlady » Fri Mar 27, 2015 4:38 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:Do you have feelings on Morningside Heights vs. Greenwich Village? For me that was a significant factor, in that I find the (relative) quiet in Morningside way more hospitable than the Village.

Each has its own charm, so to speak. Will be living on the UWS; have lived in midtown and Bklyn, so I'm kind of jaded as to the environmental factors.

DK21
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DK21 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:05 pm

I feel like everytime I look at these threads I see a lot more in favor of NYU, but I can't tell if that's just because I see more people chiming in from NYU. Could people who attend CLS talk about why they chose CLS over NYU?

CanadianWolf
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:09 pm

The Harvard acceptance is your negotiating leverage.

bklynlady
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bklynlady » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:14 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:The Harvard acceptance is your negotiating leverage.

So, basically I should send them an e-mail telling them how much I love their school, but am also considering Harvard? How do I squeeze the money part into the conversation without sounding bad?

CanadianWolf
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:19 pm

"Are you willing & able to increase your scholarship offer?" Currently I have a similar amount via a named scholarship from Columbia & I am also considering Harvard Law School. I want to attend NYU, can you offer more aid ?

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ChemEng1642
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby ChemEng1642 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:51 pm

bklynlady wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:Do you have feelings on Morningside Heights vs. Greenwich Village? For me that was a significant factor, in that I find the (relative) quiet in Morningside way more hospitable than the Village.

Each has its own charm, so to speak. Will be living on the UWS; have lived in midtown and Bklyn, so I'm kind of jaded as to the environmental factors.


One is more expensive than the other too if that matters.

dwyf
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby dwyf » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:52 pm

banjo wrote:
DK21 wrote:
bklynlady wrote:
Skool wrote:I believe there is one less mandatory doctrinal class at nyu. You have to take eventually just not necessarily first year.

The benefit is clearly a less stressful first year.


Thanks! Any difference in their grading system?

Someone also told me NYU's curve is more generous.


I actually think they're pretty similar. One plus for CLS is that our curve does not require professors to hand out B- grades. Our grades are just A, A-, B+, B. It's a little less stressful knowing that even the worst exam in the class ends up with a B.

It's true that CLS requires one additional substantive class in the spring. To balance that out, our legal writing course only requires about 20-25 hours of work all semester (and I actually got a High Pass for doing even that much). NYU's legal writing seems more time-intensive. You also have to decide if you want to take Con Law and Property in 1L year (required at CLS) or Legislation and the Regulatory State (required at NYU).

edit: There is another advantage to having an extra course in the spring (like we do at CLS). If you don't do well in the fall, you have 4 exams to balance out your 3 mediocre ones.

You can't go wrong either way. I have friends at NYU and they seem like cool people. I think we're okay too.


Agreed that you can't go wrong.

One note on the legal writing courses. I don't know which is more work, but I do know that NYU's is ungraded, which I think is fundamentally less stressful.

I suppose it gives one fewer opportunity to balance out other grades - but it's also one fewer potential landmine.

bklynlady
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bklynlady » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:56 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:"Are you willing & able to increase your scholarship offer?" Currently I have a similar amount via a named scholarship from Columbia & I am also considering Harvard Law School. I want to attend NYU, can you offer more aid ?

And the reverse to ask from CLS? NYU wasn't a named scholarship, but is slightly more money. Your wording seems blunt, but I guess they are aware of the bottom line and there's no sense beating around the bush. Have you ever negotiated scholarship money for yourself?

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:20 pm

DK21 wrote:I feel like everytime I look at these threads I see a lot more in favor of NYU, but I can't tell if that's just because I see more people chiming in from NYU. Could people who attend CLS talk about why they chose CLS over NYU?


I chose CLS over NYU, as do the sizable majority of the cross-admits. I think either choice is fair, but CLS takes a small edge in everything I wanted to do.

To clear up a few things. CLS has ungraded legal writing as well. It's overall grading system is more manageable with only 4 grades on the curve.

DK21
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DK21 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:23 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
DK21 wrote:I feel like everytime I look at these threads I see a lot more in favor of NYU, but I can't tell if that's just because I see more people chiming in from NYU. Could people who attend CLS talk about why they chose CLS over NYU?


I chose CLS over NYU, as do the sizable majority of the cross-admits. I think either choice is fair, but CLS takes a small edge in everything I wanted to do.

To clear up a few things. CLS has ungraded legal writing as well. It's overall grading system is more manageable with only 4 grades on the curve.

What do you mean about the 4 grades on the curve?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:54 pm

DK21 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
DK21 wrote:I feel like everytime I look at these threads I see a lot more in favor of NYU, but I can't tell if that's just because I see more people chiming in from NYU. Could people who attend CLS talk about why they chose CLS over NYU?


I chose CLS over NYU, as do the sizable majority of the cross-admits. I think either choice is fair, but CLS takes a small edge in everything I wanted to do.

To clear up a few things. CLS has ungraded legal writing as well. It's overall grading system is more manageable with only 4 grades on the curve.

What do you mean about the 4 grades on the curve?

Professors are only required to give A, A-, B+, and B. Everything else is discretionary. With about 40% of a typical 1L class getting a B this helps people who don't end up doing well on law school exams, because even if you end up with mostly B's your GPA will be pretty close to the roughly 3.3 median.

As for why I chose CLS: Main reason is that the housing situation for my SO and I looked to be a lot easier to deal with. Everyone can live a short walk to the school in subsidized housing.

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bretby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bretby » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:07 pm

bklynlady wrote:Anybody with thoughts about possibly negotiating more money from either school? And if so, whats the best way to go about it?


I just had a long conversation about this very question with a former professor and he strongly favors NYU over Columbia - he thinks it is more engaging, more intellectually vibrant, the students are happier, better faculty, etc. etc. etc. I was surprised by this, but, there you have it.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:19 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
DK21 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
DK21 wrote:I feel like everytime I look at these threads I see a lot more in favor of NYU, but I can't tell if that's just because I see more people chiming in from NYU. Could people who attend CLS talk about why they chose CLS over NYU?


I chose CLS over NYU, as do the sizable majority of the cross-admits. I think either choice is fair, but CLS takes a small edge in everything I wanted to do.

To clear up a few things. CLS has ungraded legal writing as well. It's overall grading system is more manageable with only 4 grades on the curve.

What do you mean about the 4 grades on the curve?

Professors are only required to give A, A-, B+, and B. Everything else is discretionary. With about 40% of a typical 1L class getting a B this helps people who don't end up doing well on law school exams, because even if you end up with mostly B's your GPA will be pretty close to the roughly 3.3 median.

As for why I chose CLS: Main reason is that the housing situation for my SO and I looked to be a lot easier to deal with. Everyone can live a short walk to the school in subsidized housing.


this is of underrated importance. CLS does wonders for people in couples.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DCfilterDC » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:37 pm

bretby wrote:
bklynlady wrote:Anybody with thoughts about possibly negotiating more money from either school? And if so, whats the best way to go about it?


I just had a long conversation about this very question with a former professor and he strongly favors NYU over Columbia - he thinks it is more engaging, more intellectually vibrant, the students are happier, better faculty, etc. etc. etc. I was surprised by this, but, there you have it.


What? How does that affect scholarship negotiation?

DK21
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DK21 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:52 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
bretby wrote:
bklynlady wrote:Anybody with thoughts about possibly negotiating more money from either school? And if so, whats the best way to go about it?


I just had a long conversation about this very question with a former professor and he strongly favors NYU over Columbia - he thinks it is more engaging, more intellectually vibrant, the students are happier, better faculty, etc. etc. etc. I was surprised by this, but, there you have it.


What? How does that affect scholarship negotiation?

It affects the choice between the two, which was part of the point of the thread. It wasn't focused on solely negotiation.

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DCfilterDC
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby DCfilterDC » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:03 pm

DK21 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
bretby wrote:
bklynlady wrote:Anybody with thoughts about possibly negotiating more money from either school? And if so, whats the best way to go about it?


I just had a long conversation about this very question with a former professor and he strongly favors NYU over Columbia - he thinks it is more engaging, more intellectually vibrant, the students are happier, better faculty, etc. etc. etc. I was surprised by this, but, there you have it.


What? How does that affect scholarship negotiation?

It affects the choice between the two, which was part of the point of the thread. It wasn't focused on solely negotiation.


Just curious to learn more. Was this professor a UG or law professor? Did he teach at both or something? Not asking to critize. Asking because in the same position in choosing.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby sims1 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:26 pm

bklynlady wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:The Harvard acceptance is your negotiating leverage.

So, basically I should send them an e-mail telling them how much I love their school, but am also considering Harvard? How do I squeeze the money part into the conversation without sounding bad?



You can just say to Columbia that NYU is offering you 35/year, can you match that. Just rmbr that the 3rd year is cut in half if you do biglaw so it's really 87.5 over 3 years (frontloaded which is nice).

fwiw I chose NYU in this identical situation based on location/campuses/anecdotal things which lead me to believe that it was a better 'fit' (although the latter is impossible to really gauge accurately). Happy with my decision.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:54 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:[

Just curious to learn more. Was this professor a UG or law professor? Did he teach at both or something? Not asking to critize. Asking because in the same position in choosing.


why would it matter? it's second degree anecdotal

bklynlady
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bklynlady » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:44 pm

sims1 wrote:
bklynlady wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:The Harvard acceptance is your negotiating leverage.

So, basically I should send them an e-mail telling them how much I love their school, but am also considering Harvard? How do I squeeze the money part into the conversation without sounding bad?



You can just say to Columbia that NYU is offering you 35/year, can you match that. Just rmbr that the 3rd year is cut in half if you do biglaw so it's really 87.5 over 3 years (frontloaded which is nice).

fwiw I chose NYU in this identical situation based on location/campuses/anecdotal things which lead me to believe that it was a better 'fit' (although the latter is impossible to really gauge accurately). Happy with my decision.

Thanks! I will 99% be doing PI the 3rd year, so it will probably be worth 105K to me. Glad you made the right decision for yourself! Going to NYU next week so maybe that will help clarify things for me.

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bretby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bretby » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:39 pm

I just had a long conversation about this very question with a former professor and he strongly favors NYU over Columbia - he thinks it is more engaging, more intellectually vibrant, the students are happier, better faculty, etc. etc. etc. I was surprised by this, but, there you have it.[/quote]



Just curious to learn more. Was this professor a UG or law professor? Did he teach at both or something? Not asking to critize. Asking because in the same position in choosing.[/quote][/quote]

He's a law professor - used to teach at one of the two, now teaches elsewhere, but still has contacts in and contact with both schools. I can't expand much more on what I said above - his takeaway point was that NYU was a more intellectually engaged and engaging place, with a more active faculty and a better quality of education. He noted that Columbia has lost several major faculty members in the past few years and has not replaced them with comparable scholars/teachers. I was really surprised to hear all of this, since I had assumed Columbia was "better" according to his metrics, but he was quite certain in his judgment.

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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby Nebby » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:39 pm

Take your boomer professors advice and put it in the toilet. It's quite obvious that he taught at NYU. How can be judge the academic feel of two places after acknowledging he didn't even work at one. Furthermore, your life as a student has absolutely zero correlation with the school's respective scholarship.

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bretby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bretby » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:55 pm

Nebby wrote:Take your boomer professors advice and put it in the toilet. It's quite obvious that he taught at NYU. How can be judge the academic feel of two places after acknowledging he didn't even work at one. Furthermore, your life as a student has absolutely zero correlation with the school's respective scholarship.


Will do, bro. I'm sure that all of the other people on this board who have attended and taught at several law schools are in a better place to provide informed judgments about the relative strengths of different schools. Also, not sure where this boomer thing is coming from - where did I ever say he was a boomer? And if you're talking about student life as in life outside the classroom, I agree and noted that he thought NYU students were overall a happier bunch. If you're talking about quality of scholarship as it affects job outcomes, a more well-known, respected, and well-connected professor will be able to pull strings for students than someone who is none of those things. While this probably doesn't matter for people who are set on Big Law, for people with interests where connections matter (clerkships, government positions, etc.), it absolutely correlates with their life as a student.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:08 pm

bretby wrote:
Nebby wrote:Take your boomer professors advice and put it in the toilet. It's quite obvious that he taught at NYU. How can be judge the academic feel of two places after acknowledging he didn't even work at one. Furthermore, your life as a student has absolutely zero correlation with the school's respective scholarship.


Will do, bro. I'm sure that all of the other people on this board who have attended and taught at several law schools are in a better place to provide informed judgments about the relative strengths of different schools. Also, not sure where this boomer thing is coming from - where did I ever say he was a boomer? And if you're talking about student life as in life outside the classroom, I agree and noted that he thought NYU students were overall a happier bunch. If you're talking about quality of scholarship as it affects job outcomes, a more well-known, respected, and well-connected professor will be able to pull strings for students than someone who is none of those things. While this probably doesn't matter for people who are set on Big Law, for people with interests where connections matter (clerkships, government positions, etc.), it absolutely correlates with their life as a student.


if you think NYU's professors are "better connected" than Columbia's, you're out of your goddamn mind. Both schools have excellent faculty, in fact, the best of any law school faculty along with Yale, Chicago, Harvard, and Stanford. You're stretching some anecdotal comments by one dude pretty thin. If NYU's professors carried so much more weight than other schools, you think you'd see that play out in government and academic hiring. But it doesn't.

And if by "losing several prominent faculty" you mean Trevor Morrison, LJL.

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bretby
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Re: NYU ($$) vs Columbia ($$)

Postby bretby » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:17 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
bretby wrote:
Nebby wrote:Take your boomer professors advice and put it in the toilet. It's quite obvious that he taught at NYU. How can be judge the academic feel of two places after acknowledging he didn't even work at one. Furthermore, your life as a student has absolutely zero correlation with the school's respective scholarship.


Will do, bro. I'm sure that all of the other people on this board who have attended and taught at several law schools are in a better place to provide informed judgments about the relative strengths of different schools. Also, not sure where this boomer thing is coming from - where did I ever say he was a boomer? And if you're talking about student life as in life outside the classroom, I agree and noted that he thought NYU students were overall a happier bunch. If you're talking about quality of scholarship as it affects job outcomes, a more well-known, respected, and well-connected professor will be able to pull strings for students than someone who is none of those things. While this probably doesn't matter for people who are set on Big Law, for people with interests where connections matter (clerkships, government positions, etc.), it absolutely correlates with their life as a student.


if you think NYU's professors are "better connected" than Columbia's, you're out of your goddamn mind. Both schools have excellent faculty, in fact, the best of any law school faculty along with Yale, Chicago, Harvard, and Stanford. You're stretching some anecdotal comments by one dude pretty thin. If NYU's professors carried so much more weight than other schools, you think you'd see that play out in government and academic hiring. But it doesn't.

And if by "losing several prominent faculty" you mean Trevor Morrison, LJL.


I was simply comparing NYU to Columbia, not to the other schools you mentioned. Agreed that in government and academic hiring both NYU and Columbia take a major backseat to Yale, Chicago and Harvard. I wasn't talking about Trevor Morrison. I don't care to argue with anyone here - simply providing one person's informed judgment. It seems like I've hit a nerve with some CLS kids.....




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