Notre Dame vs USC

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Calbears123
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Notre Dame vs USC

Postby Calbears123 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:53 pm

I've narrowed my choices down too these two schools because they are the most affordable. ND will cost me 75k in debt and USC around 100k.

Goals, I'd like to have a chance at BigLaw but location doesn't matter. I'm leaning ND because they are cheaper and I'd rather live in South Bend than LA ( yeah I'm strange ) They also rank higher for federal clerkship if I choose that route.

I've heard the Chicago maket blows but LA isn't better and I think ND would be slightly more portable

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lawdoggy
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby lawdoggy » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:00 am

You would rather live in a frozen tundra than a southern cal paradise?

OK

I wouldn't say ND is more portable. I'd pay the extra 25k for USC just because fuck snow. :lol:

BigZuck
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:01 am

I think you need to aim higher if big law is your goal.

A federal clerkship would be very hard to get from either. It's not really something someone should really think too much about (other than grouping it with big law percentages to get a general sense of how a school places). But yeah, I wouldn't think about that too hard, and I definitely wouldn't worry about "clerkship rankings" or whatever.

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Winston1984
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:42 am

Agree with Zuck, if you want biglaw, you really need to attend a T14 to give yourself a better shot. The debt you would have from these schools isn't too bad though. If you want LA, take USC. If you want Chi take ND. ND is probably more portable, but don't think it can get you a job wherever.

HalfStudent
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby HalfStudent » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:44 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Agree with Zuck, if you want biglaw, you really need to attend a T14 to give yourself a better shot. The debt you would have from these schools isn't too bad though. If you want LA, take USC. If you want Chi take ND. ND is probably more portable, but don't think it can get you a job wherever.


ND law is not more portable so disregard this. Overall USC has better biglaw placement but both schools are regional.

TheOnePercent
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby TheOnePercent » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:02 pm

HalfStudent wrote:ND law is not more portable so disregard this...but both schools are regional.

This.

2/3 of students at both USC/ND do not land BL or clerkships. Need to be content w/ that outcome (striking out) to attend either.

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Winston1984
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:20 pm

HalfStudent wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Agree with Zuck, if you want biglaw, you really need to attend a T14 to give yourself a better shot. The debt you would have from these schools isn't too bad though. If you want LA, take USC. If you want Chi take ND. ND is probably more portable, but don't think it can get you a job wherever.


ND law is not more portable so disregard this. Overall USC has better biglaw placement but both schools are regional.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/usc/notredame/
I would say it is more portable. I'm not saying at all that it is a national powerhouse. Also, placement is the same.

071816
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby 071816 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:23 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
HalfStudent wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Agree with Zuck, if you want biglaw, you really need to attend a T14 to give yourself a better shot. The debt you would have from these schools isn't too bad though. If you want LA, take USC. If you want Chi take ND. ND is probably more portable, but don't think it can get you a job wherever.


ND law is not more portable so disregard this. Overall USC has better biglaw placement but both schools are regional.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/usc/notredame/
I would say it is more portable. I'm not saying at all that it is a national powerhouse. Also, placement is the same.

These stats are misleading because:

1. ND doesn't have a home market
2. Lots of people attend USC and UCLA from out of state specifically to be in the southern California market.

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Winston1984
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:29 pm

chimp wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:
HalfStudent wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Agree with Zuck, if you want biglaw, you really need to attend a T14 to give yourself a better shot. The debt you would have from these schools isn't too bad though. If you want LA, take USC. If you want Chi take ND. ND is probably more portable, but don't think it can get you a job wherever.


ND law is not more portable so disregard this. Overall USC has better biglaw placement but both schools are regional.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/compare/usc/notredame/
I would say it is more portable. I'm not saying at all that it is a national powerhouse. Also, placement is the same.

These stats are misleading because:

1. ND doesn't have a home market
2. Lots of people attend USC and UCLA from out of state specifically to be in the southern California market.

Sure, I'm sure there is definitely self selection with USC folks wanting to stay in CA. But if I wanted to work anywhere outside of CA, I would feel better about going to ND. This is excluding the Catholic component and living in South Bend. I don't believe that USC students would have an easier time in NY/DC/Chi than ND students.

071816
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby 071816 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:40 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Sure, I'm sure there is definitely self selection with USC folks wanting to stay in CA. But if I wanted to work anywhere outside of CA, I would feel better about going to ND. This is excluding the Catholic component and living in South Bend. I don't believe that USC students would have an easier time in NY/DC/Chi than ND students.

They wouldn't necessarily have an easier time, but I don't think it would be more difficult for them either. I just wanted to point out that the data you cited doesn't tell the whole story. But obviously we'll never have a real answer to this question because something like 75-80% of USC people gun for the various CA markets and never even consider out-of-state markets in their job searches.

TheOnePercent
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby TheOnePercent » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:42 pm

Also, what a random pairing of schools. You're committing to a law school, not a football program.

OP: Where do you have ties? What do you hope to practice? How do these two schools further those career goals? How will pedestrian placement stats + moderate debt limit your future employment options?

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Winston1984
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:50 pm

chimp wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Sure, I'm sure there is definitely self selection with USC folks wanting to stay in CA. But if I wanted to work anywhere outside of CA, I would feel better about going to ND. This is excluding the Catholic component and living in South Bend. I don't believe that USC students would have an easier time in NY/DC/Chi than ND students.

They wouldn't necessarily have an easier time, but I don't think it would be more difficult for them either. I just wanted to point out that the data you cited doesn't tell the whole story. But obviously we'll never have a real answer to this question because something like 75-80% of USC people gun for the various CA markets and never even consider out-of-state markets in their job searches.

Not that I really care to look at this, but ND wouldn't have a wider (geographic) range of firms at OCI than USC? And I do think obviously USC folks are self selecting for CA. But over time, don't you think this leads to employers outside of CA not really hiring USC folks? Making it a much more uphill battle for them in those other markets?

TheOnePercent
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby TheOnePercent » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:56 pm

Winston1984 wrote:But over time, don't you think this leads to employers outside of CA not really hiring USC folks?

Debate's irrelevant, no? Firms aren't hiring most students from either school. Meaning, if you're top 25%/LR at ND/USC - can snag decent BL nationally. But the median student from either is in trouble.

071816
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby 071816 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:58 pm

Winston1984 wrote:
chimp wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Sure, I'm sure there is definitely self selection with USC folks wanting to stay in CA. But if I wanted to work anywhere outside of CA, I would feel better about going to ND. This is excluding the Catholic component and living in South Bend. I don't believe that USC students would have an easier time in NY/DC/Chi than ND students.

They wouldn't necessarily have an easier time, but I don't think it would be more difficult for them either. I just wanted to point out that the data you cited doesn't tell the whole story. But obviously we'll never have a real answer to this question because something like 75-80% of USC people gun for the various CA markets and never even consider out-of-state markets in their job searches.

Not that I really care to look at this, but ND wouldn't have a wider (geographic) range of firms at OCI than USC? And I do think obviously USC folks are self selecting for CA. But over time, don't you think this leads to employers outside of CA not really hiring USC folks? Making it a much more uphill battle for them in those other markets?

It's possible (I admittedly don't know much about ND's OCI), but I've seen USC people with the right ties get offers in all the markets you mentioned (both through OCI and outside of OCI). I personally wouldn't attend USC if I wanted to work outside of CA, but people do it.

071816
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby 071816 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:58 pm

TheOnePercent wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:But over time, don't you think this leads to employers outside of CA not really hiring USC folks?

Debate's irrelevant, no? Firms aren't hiring most students from either school. Meaning, if you're top 25%/LR at ND/USC - can snag decent BL nationally. But the median student from either is in trouble.

pretty much

andythefir
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Re: Notre Dame vs USC

Postby andythefir » Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:06 pm

BigZuck wrote:I think you need to aim higher if big law is your goal.

A federal clerkship would be very hard to get from either. It's not really something someone should really think too much about (other than grouping it with big law percentages to get a general sense of how a school places). But yeah, I wouldn't think about that too hard, and I definitely wouldn't worry about "clerkship rankings" or whatever.


NDLS puts lots of folks into federal clerkships, especially right wing folks. Probably not a good enough reason to pick it over another school, but there is a serious difference for someone who is right wing.

http://abovethelaw.com/2014/06/which-la ... lerkships/




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