GW vs W&M

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Talk to me goose
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GW vs W&M

Postby Talk to me goose » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:39 pm

-GW at $180,000 W&M at $100,000
-Loans, savings, cost of living assistance from family
-From NJ, have worked and want to start a career in DC. A lot of ties to NJ.
-Clerkship (federal preferred) and BigLaw (101+). Interest in IP but not ready to decide a specific field.
-165/3.69

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby Capitol_Idea » Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:46 pm

Too brief and lacking in personality to be a troll, so I'm assuming you're legit. In that case, the credited answer is NEITHER. Here's why:

1. Re-take the LSAT. If you can bring up your LSAT a couple points, paired with your GPA you can get into much better schools, and with some scholarship money to boot.

2. If you want clerkship/BigLaw then you need t14 or higher. Either school will place some people in BigLaw, but at MUCH lower rates than better ranked schools. You will have to do extremely well at either school to have a shot. DC is a very competitive market - you are fighting every highly ranked school for a smaller number of jobs than NYC.

3. The cost for either school is too high. Even if you get BigLaw, you'll be paying off those bills for a long while. And given that the risk of not getting BigLaw is very real, that's a serious amount of debt you're facing with an uncertain future ability to pay it off.

Talk to me goose
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby Talk to me goose » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:10 pm

zacharus85 wrote:Too brief and lacking in personality to be a troll, so I'm assuming you're legit.


Thank you! And, of course, thank you for your response. It is the excellent constructive/non-inflammatory criticism I was hoping and yet rarely come by on the internet.

However, if I may:

1. What if I don't improve my score? Have I then essentially put off a year of my life? Anyone can improve at anything but I put a lot of effort into the score I got and I was proud of it.

2. According to LST, 28% of the GW class of 2013 found work in 101+ size firms (I'm still not sure where the cutoff for "BigLaw" is, if its even about the number of attorneys working there) and 21% of W&M grads found the same. Is this number so low its not worth the risk to shoot for?

3. Yeah, can't argue with this one. My other options are Temple or Seton Hall for free (well, plus cost of living), but that's not what my question is about. That's an entirely different decision.

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to respond!

BigZuck
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:20 pm

DC is a very tough market to crack. If you want anything approximating a reasonable shot at big law in DC you have to go to a T14.

If you don't improve you're in the same spot. You probably shouldn't go to law school with those numbers and those goals so you'd just have to do something different with your life. If you had different goals and/or different costs of attendance then the advice might be different.

"165 on the LSAT" and "Clerkship/big law" just don't really go together the vast majority of the time (including this one).

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby Capitol_Idea » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:24 pm

1. Even with the same score, an extra year off is what you make of it - it's only a waste if you do nothing. Work Experience is never a bad thing - my 1 year off became 6 because I liked my job so damn much. In fact, it both helps your application chances and helps clarify how important law school is to you.

With the same score, you still can get in to the lower t14 - probably with no money though. This is not great. BUT you can use this to extract money from a lower down school in the t20 like GWU. Getting a job will get harder but your expenses go down so you have less of a desperate need to get only the best jobs. Play the numbers and see if you get a school that maximizes earning potential while reducing debt load until you're comfortable.

2. Regarding the numbers - think about it. Only a QUARTER or less of the entire class got a job sufficient to pay off the kind of debt you're looking down. Are those odds you're comfortable with? Grading is very competitive (Everything is curved), you're up against people who are generally type A and used to working hard, AND there is a degree of subjectivity to the whole grading thing.

I'm way more bullish than most of the informed commentariat on TLS - prevailing wisdom is t10 or bust if you want BigLaw. I think you can do well if you inform yourself and prepare sufficiently such that any school in the t14 (but then again I'm a GULC student so there's probably some bias there).

BigZuck
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:41 pm

zacharus85 wrote:1. Even with the same score, an extra year off is what you make of it - it's only a waste if you do nothing. Work Experience is never a bad thing - my 1 year off became 6 because I liked my job so damn much. In fact, it both helps your application chances and helps clarify how important law school is to you.

With the same score, you still can get in to the lower t14 - probably with no money though. This is not great. BUT you can use this to extract money from a lower down school in the t20 like GWU. Getting a job will get harder but your expenses go down so you have less of a desperate need to get only the best jobs. Play the numbers and see if you get a school that maximizes earning potential while reducing debt load until you're comfortable.

2. Regarding the numbers - think about it. Only a QUARTER or less of the entire class got a job sufficient to pay off the kind of debt you're looking down. Are those odds you're comfortable with? Grading is very competitive (Everything is curved), you're up against people who are generally type A and used to working hard, AND there is a degree of subjectivity to the whole grading thing.

I'm way more bullish than most of the informed commentariat on TLS - prevailing wisdom is t10 or bust if you want BigLaw. I think you can do well if you inform yourself and prepare sufficiently such that any school in the t14 (but then again I'm a GULC student so there's probably some bias there).


Where are you getting this "prevailing wisdom" from?

I've seen a lot of threads that are really bullish on Cornell lately. T10 is a weird line for the hive to draw, you sure it's actually drawing it?

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ILoveYou
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby ILoveYou » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:05 pm

BigZuck wrote:. T10 is a weird line for the hive to draw, you sure it's actually drawing it?


I agree it's a weird line to draw, but I have been seeing it more lately. That and T6, which is a much less weird line IMO.


OP, I'm seconding everything zacharus said. Retake/reapply is TCR for sure, and I wouldn't wish GWU at that price on my worst enemy.

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WeeBey
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Re: GW vs W&M

Postby WeeBey » Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:38 am

T10 is stupid.

HYS is a thing, duh.

CCN is also a thing. Instead of total biglaw jobs, check how they place at the most prestigious firms (V10).

MVPBDCNG are roughly a wash. Penn might be a bit better, GULG a bit worse (but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt with their large transfer class and DC and gov't focus). But in terms of Biglaw and Fed Clerkships, P is at 69% with C and N following at 68% and 63% respectively. C and N beat out other T10s such as MVB




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