SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

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mightymaryland2007
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SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby mightymaryland2007 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:06 pm

Title basically speaks for itself - and no, to those of you who say retake, that's not an option. I'll be getting my MBA as well with a joint degree.

I'm from St. Louis, have some great local connections here. 1843 is a name scholarship and apparently opens up some doors. Mizzou doesn't offer many scholarships because the cost is cheaper as it is. I have visited both and enjoy both - SLU seems a little more professional, Mizzou a little more laid back (although much higher ranked). Not entirely sure where I want to work, but STL would be nice (I'm not averse to going elsewhere).

Stats:
LSAT: 161 (broke my foot 12 hours before test, was practicing with TestMasters in the mid 160's)
GPA: 3.9+

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sneezus
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby sneezus » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:08 pm

gotta retake

BigZuck
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:13 pm

mightymaryland2007 wrote:Title basically speaks for itself - and no, to those of you who say retake, that's not an option. I'll be getting my MBA as well with a joint degree.

I'm from St. Louis, have some great local connections here. 1843 is a name scholarship and apparently opens up some doors. Mizzou doesn't offer many scholarships because the cost is cheaper as it is. I have visited both and enjoy both - SLU seems a little more professional, Mizzou a little more laid back (although much higher ranked). Not entirely sure where I want to work, but STL would be nice (I'm not averse to going elsewhere).

Stats:
LSAT: 161 (broke my foot 12 hours before test, was practicing with TestMasters in the mid 160's)
GPA: 3.9+


Mizzou for freesies sounds like a good option with modest goals in Saint Louis- local gov, small firms, things like that.

If you want something high paying or outside Missouri then retake/reapply

I wouldn't bother with the MBA, what are you planning on doing with it?

mightymaryland2007
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby mightymaryland2007 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:23 pm

The 1843 at SLU is a full ride as well. Both schools talked to me about the MBA. I think it gives me greater flexibility down the road should I want to switch jobs. I'm pretty well connected within some of the STL firms (Husch and Greensfelder) and the people I've talked to there think of it as only a positive (at Mizzou, you practically would be getting paid to get your MBA - TA a class and you get the tuition absolved plus a $500/month stipend).

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Fiero85
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby Fiero85 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:26 pm

sneezus wrote:gotta retake


This.

retake >>> Wash U full ride >>> profit

BigZuck
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:35 pm

mightymaryland2007 wrote:The 1843 at SLU is a full ride as well. Both schools talked to me about the MBA. I think it gives me greater flexibility down the road should I want to switch jobs. I'm pretty well connected within some of the STL firms (Husch and Greensfelder) and the people I've talked to there think of it as only a positive (at Mizzou, you practically would be getting paid to get your MBA - TA a class and you get the tuition absolved plus a $500/month stipend).

Problem I see there is the MBA is from a mediocre (at best) school. I don't see it adding any value. The flexibility thing seems like flame, most boomers think a JD by itself is a flexible degree (it isn't really) so I wouldn't put much stock in what they think. Then again if it's free I guess no harm no foul (unless you value that year of not working and spending it in school learning inane B school stuff)

I forgot Wash U existed, I'd imagine Wash U+Missouri ties would be a pretty good combo. It's easy to get a full ride to WUSTL, that might be your best option if you want to work in Saint Louis.

mightymaryland2007
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby mightymaryland2007 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:54 pm

I got into WashU with some scholarship, but didn't like it too much on my visit. Simply put, it seemed pretty large and uncomfortable to me. I'm lucky that I got full tuition to undergrad, so that money (set aside by grandparents) could potentially spill over and pay for WashU (I'd be debt free upon graduation), but it seems dumb to pay that much more for something slightly better.

The Dark Shepard
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby The Dark Shepard » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:05 pm

its not "slightly better". Its significantly better with much better employment outcomes. Though the money thing from WUSTL is not guaranteed. Most people get good money from them and not as good from others in the same tier, whereas WUSTL completely lowballed me compared to other schools around it (by an average of about $24,000/year....). Still, with your GPA and a solid retake, a full ride will happen. At least register for the June LSAT

Disclaimer: SLU undergrad alumni who hates WUSTL as a whole but probably would have gone to WUSTL Law with good money
Last edited by The Dark Shepard on Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chevron Deference
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby Chevron Deference » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:05 pm

Go to Wash U.

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BankruptMe
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby BankruptMe » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:24 pm

Wash U

mightymaryland2007
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby mightymaryland2007 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:30 pm

I really hope this doesn't evolve into a WashU discussion. Please keep it to SLU vs Mizzou (although comparisons to WashU are applicable and acceptable)

The Dark Shepard
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby The Dark Shepard » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:32 pm

All of this being said, SLU full ride with good ties to St. Louis isn't the end of the world I don't think

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eriedoctrine
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby eriedoctrine » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:47 pm

Retake.

Jay2716
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby Jay2716 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:25 pm

Even with your connections to Husch and Greensfelder, a job at a firm like that is going to require top 10-15% from either Mizzou or SLU. If you are cool doing small firm or MO gov work, then either are fine, (I would probably pick SLU if I wanted STL, just for proximity's sake.)

If you think you want STL biglaw or to leave the state, you need to go to WUSTL for cheap. Your connections are almost certainly not good enough to make a significant difference.

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Birdnals
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby Birdnals » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:27 pm

STL native/Mizzou UG grad here, and will add my 2 cents:

1. Getting an MBA from SLU or Mizzou without work experience is less than useless. It will open zero new doors and will just take you an extra year of classes. If you strike out of law, no business is going to look at your Mizzou/SLU JD with zero substantive work experience and hire you for a MBA required, or probably even MBA preferred, job. You will get the same job as a Mizzou business undergrad would get. If you want to work in business in STL, get a few years work experience, take the GRE, and go to a top ranked business school. If you want to be a lawyer, go to law school. It's that simple. This isn't something you hedge your bet with, because business people will think you are a failed lawyer and lawyers will think you are a failed business person.

2. Retake. With that GPA, you only need a few more points to get a full ride at WashU. I was like you and had my heart set on St. Louis. If you want to work biglaw in St. Louis, and you are from St. Louis, you are being shortsighted to not retake and go to WashU. St. Louis biglaw has something like, 40 total SA spots in any given summer. ~15 of those will go to WashU people, ~15 will go to other schools (People from St. Louis or surrounding areas who went to Northwestern or some other highly ranked school, or who kill it and get ranked around #1 at a random school in the midwest). The remaining 10 will typically be 7 or so SLU, 3 or so Mizzou. While an additional 7 or so spots may seem insignificant, remember that only probably 25-35% of WashU kids are targeting St. Louis. 100% of Slu kids are trying to get St. Louis jobs.

3. If you insist on rushing into the degree which will have the biggest effect on your 40 year career because you don't want to wait 1 year to go to law school, then go to SLU. SLU has the biggest alumni base, and for some reason STL biglaw tends to hire a lot more SLU grads than Mizzou grads. SLU is still a dumb decision with your GPA though, because to get STL biglaw from slu you need to be a URM, or be top 5-10% minimum. Preferably both. To get STL biglaw from WashU you need to be top 20-25% non urm, and at least have a realistic shot at even just being in the top third. Anecdotally I know somebody who was number 3 or 4 in his class at Mizzou, from STL, on Law Review, and a personable guy who struck out of STL biglaw and was stuck doing shit-law plaintiffs work for his first few years of his career. Neither SLU nor Mizzou are realistically able to get you biglaw jobs outside of the state.

4. Your connections to Husch/Greensfelder don't mean shit unless your dad is a partner (probably would need to be a corner office partner to have any sort of guaranteed job at either firm). I had my SA at one of those firms and have plenty of friends at the other and where you go/your grades are wayyyyyyyy more important than if your parents are friends with some partners there. And I'm speaking from experience from somebody who also had "connections" with STL firms pre-law school. Those connections might get you a pitty call-back but like I said, unless it is a close relative in a powerful position in the firm they aren't going to help you get a job.


Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the St. Louis legal community. I know it sucks being told to wait a year, but trust me when I say this is the biggest decision of your life and shouldn't be rushed into. 1 year is pretty insignificant over the length of a career.

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Fiero85
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby Fiero85 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:34 pm

Jay2716 wrote:Even with your connections to Husch and Greensfelder, a job at a firm like that is going to require top 10-15% from either Mizzou or SLU. If you are cool doing small firm or MO gov work, then either are fine, (I would probably pick SLU if I wanted STL, just for proximity's sake.)

If you think you want STL biglaw or to leave the state, you need to go to WUSTL for cheap. Your connections are almost certainly not good enough to make a significant difference.


^Good post.

If you want to work in STL, in some capacity (BL unlikely) SLU for free is fine. SLU won't take you anywhere else though so factor that in.

Mizzou for free is nice and all but I'd only go there if I wanted to work in central MO or in government in MO or something.

Plenty of people have told you the best choice (retake>Wash U fully).

If you don't 100% want to work in STL, you gotta retake. Go to a T14 in the city/region you want to work in for as little money as possible. Your GPA makes this possible if you put in the effort. I don't think you realize how tough it is to get a job from Wash U, let alone SLU or Mizzou. Your concerns about Wash U are not legit enough to decide upon. "Pretty large and uncomfortable" based on a one day visit is a silly thing to base your decision on.

CurvedSurface
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby CurvedSurface » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:48 pm

What Birdnals said is absolutely on point. I'm from STL, have previous work experience in MO, and currently at WUSTL. Take his advice.

And WUSTL actually is a really fine place. But you should really retake, because you have so much potential to have so many options available to you.

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DaRascal
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby DaRascal » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:51 pm

Mizzou- Tied for 59th
Saint Louis- Tied for 87th


If I were in your spot, I'd pick Mizzou!

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Fiero85
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby Fiero85 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:58 pm

DaRascal wrote:Mizzou- Tied for 59th
Saint Louis- Tied for 87th


If I were in your spot, I'd pick Mizzou!


OP: since you only have a few posts and might not know that DR is a troll, he is, fyi.

The distinction above is pointless and pretty much just a result of US News factoring in that Mizzou is cheaper before discount, which is irrelevant to you.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:10 pm

eriedoctrine wrote:Retake.

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sneezus
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby sneezus » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:16 pm

again, the absolute no-brainer option here is to retake.

if you are unwilling to prepare for and retake a learnable standardized test that you were previously performing moderately well on, then what makes you think you'll be willing to put in the work (and snag the luck) that would be required to perform well in law school? honestly, it's pretty tough to imagine you're that serious about this if you refuse to retake.

you gotta lengthen your view of this. 3-6 points opens up vastly better prospects, potentially thousands of dollars.

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jingosaur
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby jingosaur » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:35 pm

The Birnals post is the best advice that you're going to get.

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ballcaps
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Re: SLU (1843) vs Mizzou (Full)

Postby ballcaps » Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:57 pm

DaRascal wrote:Mizzou- Tied for 59th
Saint Louis- Tied for 87th


If I were in your spot, I'd pick Mizzou!


i'm a big fan of your earlier work, but you aren't funny anymore and should go away.




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