Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which law school should I attend?

Notre Dame
12
57%
University of Miami
1
5%
Other (please explain)
0
No votes
Obligatory Retake Option
8
38%
 
Total votes: 21

03152016
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby 03152016 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:10 am

$52,372 tuition and fees for the upcoming year
5.48% per year cost inflation per lawschooltransparency, 2% col inflation
assuming constant 6.21% interest on stafford (1.072% origination), 7.21% interest on plus (4.29% origination)
w/ $40k scholarship per year
total yearly col (rent, food, books, supplies, transportation, personal, etc) $19,950 per notre dame website
debt after graduation and standard deferment – $123,595
now factoring in 0 cost of living expenses for the first year of law school
debt after graduation and standard deferment – $98,854

03152016
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby 03152016 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:15 am

let's say that 20k ug debt grows another 3k or so in interest before op can start chipping away at it
now we're at $121,854
that's a very bold gamble op

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twenty
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby twenty » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:16 am

total yearly col (rent, food, books, supplies, transportation, personal, etc) $19,950 per notre dame website


tbf, his parents are paying half of this - he only pays for the rent part.

03152016
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby 03152016 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:21 am

wow. it really serves me right. i've been on this site for a while, i should know better than to take an op at their word
i'd recalculate it but i'm sure there's just another surprise waiting around the corner when i finish

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twenty
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby twenty » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:29 am

twist: op's parents suddenly die and leave him a ton of money on the condition that he attend a school that ranks between 15 and 80 in USNWR

irishamerican
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby irishamerican » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:30 am

Brut wrote:@twenty
i was basing my numbers off the novel of an OP in which they stated they were "fully debt financing"
would be nice if they updated the OP with accurate information so that we can give proper advice

having said that, i still think OPs numbers are way off. i'll have a look


I had intended for that to mean that those COA figures 50k/30k were to be fully debt-financed. As you pointed out, the OP was already a novel. I was attempting to simplify and save you five minutes of reading my rationale behind the 50k/30k numbers.

That said, I clearly didn't account for yearly tuition increases, and that probably does change that 50k number a bit.

irishamerican
Posts: 41
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby irishamerican » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:43 am

Brut wrote:$52,372 tuition and fees for the upcoming year
5.48% per year cost inflation per lawschooltransparency, 2% col inflation
assuming constant 6.21% interest on stafford (1.072% origination), 7.21% interest on plus (4.29% origination)
w/ $40k scholarship per year
total yearly col (rent, food, books, supplies, transportation, personal, etc) $19,950 per notre dame website
debt after graduation and standard deferment – $123,595
now factoring in 0 cost of living expenses for the first year of law school
debt after graduation and standard deferment – $98,854


Brut wrote:let's say that 20k ug debt grows another 3k or so in interest before op can start chipping away at it
now we're at $121,854
that's a very bold gamble op


That's all actually extremely helpful. Like I said, I didn't account for interest or tuition increases, and I appreciate all the time that you spent figuring that part for me. That is a very bold gamble; you're right.

Yes, I am able to cut back my COL expenses to only $10k per year, but that obviously still leaves a great more debt than I had been anticipating. Of course, there are still options for LRAP at ND (and I actually haven't looked as into the LRAP options at UM, since I figured the numbers would make that less imperative, but perhaps I should go hunting now), but as I said, I do not want to make this decision by counting on getting anything from LRAP.

BigZuck
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby BigZuck » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:57 am

Once again:

ND sent 15.2% of its most recent class into public service jobs. They were narrowly edged out by such public service giants as Oklahoma City University, the University of Dayton, and Cincinnati.

If Notre Dame is more public service oriented than most law schools that isn't borne out in the types of jobs its grads take.

The percentages are actually pretty close to my school, which isn't exactly a HOT BED of public service oriented people. Some people are interested in it, the vast majority aren't. I can't imagine it's any different at Notre Dame.

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smile0751
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby smile0751 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:58 am

Have you tried negotiating with ND yet?

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SweetTort
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby SweetTort » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:04 am

I think the main reason you're getting people urging you to retake is that your goals may change. If you decide you want to do anything or be anywhere else, not retaking is an objectively bad choice.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby MarkfromWI » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:07 am

irishamerican wrote: But I'm not comfortable living in limbo for another year. I get that that might not make sense to the majority of people on here, but that's the truth. For the sake of my mental health, I need to be able to actually live, not hover in a state of uncertainty.


OP, all I'm going to say is that these feelings are likely only to be made worse in law school, not better. You're looking to go into PI, which is great, but those jobs don't generally hire until later in the law school timeline (i.e. 3L). Maybe for you, accumulating debt and being jobless with no idea how you're going to pay it off once the clock strikes midnight isn't "hovering in a state of uncertainty," but for many people that is the exact definition of uncertainty. Moreover, how can you expect to put down "roots" in a place that you will, more likely than not, be leaving in 3 years (and perhaps every summer during those three years)? To be honest, your mental health sounds somewhat fragile, and I fear that what you've chosen as a cure-all is only going to make things worse.

irishamerican
Posts: 41
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby irishamerican » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:06 am

smile0751 wrote:Have you tried negotiating with ND yet?


Not yet. I'm under the impression that ND doesn't really negotiate without a peer school having a better offer, factoring in COL. And, factoring in Atlanta COL, Emory doesn't seem to be a "better offer". That said, I am going to ask anyways (just waiting on confirmation from ASW before I submit the form online), but I'm not really expecting anything to change.

SweetTort wrote:I think the main reason you're getting people urging you to retake is that your goals may change. If you decide you want to do anything or be anywhere else, not retaking is an objectively bad choice.


That makes sense, and I certainly can't fault people for assuming my goals might change. My experiences have made me dedicated to doing some form of PI (and, again, I'm fairly certain I'll stick to prosecution, but I'm aware I might sway toward children's advocacy or something else), but I understand that people on here can't accurately gauge my commitment to PI.

MarkfromWI wrote:OP, all I'm going to say is that these feelings are likely only to be made worse in law school, not better. You're looking to go into PI, which is great, but those jobs don't generally hire until later in the law school timeline (i.e. 3L). Maybe for you, accumulating debt and being jobless with no idea how you're going to pay it off once the clock strikes midnight isn't "hovering in a state of uncertainty," but for many people that is the exact definition of uncertainty. Moreover, how can you expect to put down "roots" in a place that you will, more likely than not, be leaving in 3 years (and perhaps every summer during those three years)? To be honest, your mental health sounds somewhat fragile, and I fear that what you've chosen as a cure-all is only going to make things worse.


Haha, I get where I gave you that impression. I can assure you, my mental health right now isn't any more fragile than your average person walking down the street. And I can say that after spending a few years working through PTSD, and finally being free from it for two years now. I appreciate the concern, but I promise you, I'm good.

As to the first half of your response, you're right. I will likely be leaving in 3 years, but it's not a guarantee, and I very easily could end up in the same general region. The only difference is that taking a year off means there's a guarantee that putting down roots would be pointless. There's no guarantee of that if I go somewhere where I might stay in the region. I can put down roots on a 3 year chance of staying longer; I can't on a 1 year guarantee of leaving.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: Decisions, Decisions! (ND vs. UM)

Postby MarkfromWI » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:14 am

irishamerican wrote:
MarkfromWI wrote:OP, all I'm going to say is that these feelings are likely only to be made worse in law school, not better. You're looking to go into PI, which is great, but those jobs don't generally hire until later in the law school timeline (i.e. 3L). Maybe for you, accumulating debt and being jobless with no idea how you're going to pay it off once the clock strikes midnight isn't "hovering in a state of uncertainty," but for many people that is the exact definition of uncertainty. Moreover, how can you expect to put down "roots" in a place that you will, more likely than not, be leaving in 3 years (and perhaps every summer during those three years)? To be honest, your mental health sounds somewhat fragile, and I fear that what you've chosen as a cure-all is only going to make things worse.


Haha, I get where I gave you that impression. I can assure you, my mental health right now isn't any more fragile than your average person walking down the street. And I can say that after spending a few years working through PTSD, and finally being free from it for two years now. I appreciate the concern, but I promise you, I'm good.

As to the first half of your response, you're right. I will likely be leaving in 3 years, but it's not a guarantee, and I very easily could end up in the same general region. The only difference is that taking a year off means there's a guarantee that putting down roots would be pointless. There's no guarantee of that if I go somewhere where I might stay in the region. I can put down roots on a 3 year chance of staying longer; I can't on a 1 year guarantee of leaving.


Fair enough. Best of luck to ya




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