WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:10 am

WUSTL COA: $60,000 debt financed
ND COA: $90,000 debt financed
Wait list @ Umich, UVA, Northwestern, and Vandy

Goals: Chicago, firm job to pay the bills

Stats: 171/2.9 [2nd lsat, don't think a retake would help but I'm open to opinions]

Background: Midwest secondary market, would not die if went back but trying to move to Chicago.

COL will be subsidized by family. I would like the opportunity for biglaw. I know it's long odds from these schools but if I got off wait list at a lower t14 I'm struggling to justify six figure debt for an unquantifiable improvement in prospects.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

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pamphleteer
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby pamphleteer » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:38 pm

Negotiate with ND using WUSTL's offer to try and at least get COA equalized if not slightly lower at Notre Dame. ND likely gives you a better shot at Chicago with no ties than WUSTL does but, as you said, biglaw chances as a whole aren't great at either school.

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:11 pm

pamphleteer wrote:Negotiate with ND using WUSTL's offer to try and at least get COA equalized if not slightly lower at Notre Dame. ND likely gives you a better shot at Chicago with no ties than WUSTL does but, as you said, biglaw chances as a whole aren't great at either school.


Thanks for the input. What do you think about the wait lists? Is it a subjective decision at that point to pay all those duckets for a bigger shot at biglaw? The schtick seems to be 't14 or free', so I know I've got my work cut out for me.

BigZuck
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby BigZuck » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:17 pm

Your OP is confusing to me. The 60 and 90K you list- is that what you will be in debt? Meaning your parents are contributing some and that's what you're left on the hook for?

If you had to pay sticker at, say, Northwestern, how much would you personally be in debt and how much would they be paying?

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eriedoctrine
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby eriedoctrine » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:30 pm

WUSTL.

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:Your OP is confusing to me. The 60 and 90K you list- is that what you will be in debt? Meaning your parents are contributing some and that's what you're left on the hook for?

If you had to pay sticker at, say, Northwestern, how much would you personally be in debt and how much would they be paying?


The 60k and 90k are my current cost of attendance pending negotiations. Family is financing cost of living, so I'll be on the hook for those amounts.

At NU I would be $160,000 in debt.

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:27 am

Cheaper of WUSTL/ND after full negotiation attempts wins for now. But neither really place well enough in Chicago to rely on.

Take NU if you get it.

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downbeat14
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby downbeat14 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:49 am

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Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:04 am

downbeat14 wrote:
Fiero85 wrote:Cheaper of WUSTL/ND after full negotiation attempts wins for now. But neither really place well enough in Chicago to rely on.

Take NU if you get it.


^Hell no! :evil:

Do not pay sticker to go to NU. You'll be a debt slave for 10 years and hate yourself.


well OP's not paying full sticker:

90k COA @ ND < 160k COA at NU for Chicago BL *IMO*

60k COA WUSTL is obviously a lot closer, in fact I may be off base on that one.

Fine if you (and perhaps others) disagree but NU just has way more chance at OPs goals than the other two. Like double the BL placement and location in Chicago which is helpful.

Now the question of whether working in BL sucks so much that OP should re-evaluate their goals in the first place is a tough call that I'll leave to OP to consider. It's just so hard to get Chicago BL from anywhere other than UChi and NU and some other elite schools that I wouldnt go anywhere else if that's for sure the goal.

03152016
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby 03152016 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:14 am

i think op has a solid shot at nu off of waitlist
and if $160k (assuming that accounts for all expenses, plus cost inflation, loan fees, interest, deferment) is an accurate figure, i think it's defensible for someone pursuing bl from nu

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downbeat14
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby downbeat14 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:29 am

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Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby 03152016 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:39 am

25% better chance?

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:46 am

lol I get what you're saying but I'm not gonna "feel ashamed" about it. It is ok to respectfully disagree with people in life.

Why do I say NU? I just know how hard it is to get that Chicago BL goal from WUSTL. You skipped over the difference between WUSTL straight up BL numbers and Chicago BL (which is by all accounts a bloodbath of a market for anyone not NU/UChi/T6). WUSTL only places like 10% of the class into Chicago BL, if that. Chicago is harder to get than NYC for many schools including WUSTL.

NU is not one of those schools. NU places about 35% into Chicago BL and their students have a 60/40 shot at BL generally (vs 1/3 general BL at WUSTL). That increase in job prospects which you wrote off as shameful to select, when combined with location desired by the OP, is defensible for 100k IMO. Again, we may just have to agree to disagree here.
Last edited by Fiero85 on Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

03152016
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby 03152016 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:48 am

@downbeat
i agree that $160k at repayment is a lot of debt. tuition is completely unreasonable at every t14.
but realistically, is $160k at repayment so unreasonable for a chi bl gunner to pay for nu (63.4% bl/fc), to the point that wustl at $60k is a better choice (32.3% bl/fc)?

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Fiero85
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:19 am

P.S. the pro move might be to take the money at WUSTL, see how it goes, and transfer to NU or UChi depending on your grades.

Relatively low risk because WUSTL for 60k COA isnt a bad result to be "stuck" with and NU takes WUSTL transfers at barely above median and higher (UChi like top 15/20% and higher). You'd save money one way or another.

Potentially could go to WUSTL for a year for 20k and then bounce to NU or UChi and make the total COA 125k, instead of 160k, is what I'm getting at.

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downbeat14
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby downbeat14 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:26 am

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Last edited by downbeat14 on Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dog
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Dog » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:35 am

I think this is premature. NU sometimes plays ball with scholarships for sub 3.0 GPAs. If you can get in and get 40 - 50k out of them and your other offers aren't increased, I think the decision would heavily favor NU. It would be closer if your parents weren't paying COL, which isn't cheap around Chicago.

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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Informative » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:56 am

Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:WUSTL COA: $60,000 debt financed
ND COA: $90,000 debt financed
Wait list @ Umich, UVA, Northwestern, and Vandy

Goals: Chicago, firm job to pay the bills

Stats: 171/2.9 [2nd lsat, don't think a retake would help but I'm open to opinions]

Background: Midwest secondary market, would not die if went back but trying to move to Chicago.

COL will be subsidized by family. I would like the opportunity for biglaw. I know it's long odds from these schools but if I got off wait list at a lower t14 I'm struggling to justify six figure debt for an unquantifiable improvement in prospects.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


ND places better than WUSTL in biglaw, but it isn't great and not really worth the COA you posted. Try to see of they'll match WUSTL.

03152016
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby 03152016 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:22 pm

concerned about the voices recommending wustl/nd over nu for a chi biglaw gunner
the fact is that he probably gets bl from nu with $160k debt, and he probably doesn't get bl from wustl with $60k debt
i agree that $160k is too high, but the idea is to balance cost and goals
the guy has a 2.9 ugpa and got nu with 1/2 of sticker debt at repayment. i think the board is being overly-conservative

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Mozart Lacrimosa
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:15 am

Thanks everybody. I'll negotiate and play ball with wait lists. Didn't hear any love for Umich in Chicago, is it that competitive in Chi?

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Winston1984
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Re: WUSTL ($$$) vs. ND ($$) vs. t14 waiter (even at sticker)

Postby Winston1984 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:31 am

I'm a pretty debt averse guy, but I don't think $160k is life ruining, especially if you have biglaw. That's the upper end that I would take, but I would take $160k at NU or UMich over $60k at WUSTL or $90k at ND with your goals. If your goals were more modest, definitely take WUSTL.




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