Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

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Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Columbia (sticker)
6
16%
UCLA ($$$)
28
76%
Other
3
8%
 
Total votes: 37

Alan Grant
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Alan Grant » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:40 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.


zing!



There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=244984&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.

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Eladriel
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Eladriel » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:One of the very dumbest things about sticker at a school like Columbia is that if you can get in you usually can go to a school like Cornell with a solid discount and not give up a whole lot when it comes to job prospects.


Except Ithaca and the finger lakes district.

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Eladriel
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Eladriel » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:44 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Schizer is the old outgoing dean. You mean Gillian Lester.


Sigh. 0L error. I apologize for my sinns.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:47 pm

Alan Grant wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.


zing!



There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=244984&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.


Lol. Citing to that thread for the truth of its "conclusions" is like citing to the Call of Cthulhu to prove the existence of a greater deity. And while there's absolutely no way the last statement is true, it's entirely besides the point since law students pontifications on institutional signaling should play no role in law school attendance decision-making

Alan Grant
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Alan Grant » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:50 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Alan Grant wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.


zing!



There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=244984&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.


Lol. Citing to that thread for the truth of its "conclusions" is like citing to the Call of Cthulhu to prove the existence of a greater deity. And while there's absolutely no way the last statement is true, it's entirely besides the point since law students pontifications on institutional signaling should play no role in law school attendance decision-making


While I do not necessarily agree with you, I will say that you have excellent prose.

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Eladriel
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Eladriel » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:51 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Alan Grant wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.


zing!



There was actually a pretty thorough discussion of law school prestige on another thread (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=244984&start=75), and the conclusion was that basically on Harvard has true national lay prestige. Even Yale and Stanford don't really compare in this respect. Schools like Columbia, Penn, and Cornell are prestigious, but they are only really known in the Northeast. The takeaway is if prestige is a factor, Columbia does not get a leg up; UCLA is actually probably more highly regarded is SoCal.


Lol. Citing to that thread for the truth of its "conclusions" is like citing to the Call of Cthulhu to prove the existence of a greater deity. And while there's absolutely no way the last statement is true, it's entirely besides the point since law students pontifications on institutional signaling should play no role in law school attendance decision-making


“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of the infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.”

Kk. I'm going to stop and go DOTA before I embarass myself further.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:53 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.


zing!

Sorry bro but if you wanted to go to a prestigious law school you should have gone to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.

Columbia is basically a Cornell. "Yeah, I've heard of it. That's a good school, right?"

Definitely not a place to go if you want to impress a normal.

Eta: seriously though, no one should pay 300K just cuz it's Harvard, let alone Columbia
Last edited by BigZuck on Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The King
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby The King » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:54 pm

.
Last edited by The King on Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:05 am

BigZuck wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Anyway Columbia isn't even all that prestigious, most people probably just vaguely know it's a good school. If you want real prestige then just go to Harvard.


zing!

Sorry bro but if you wanted to go to a prestigious law school you should have gone to Harvard, Yale, or Princeton.

Columbia is basically a Cornell. "Yeah, I've heard of it. That's a good school, right?"

Definitely not a place to go if you want to impress a normal.

Eta: seriously though, no one should pay 300K just cuz it's Harvard, let alone Columbia


you're totally right, I woulda had all them panties droppin if I'd stuck with Princeton Law. I just couldn't stomach that sticker cost

The King
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby The King » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:18 am

.
Last edited by The King on Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

ub3r
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby ub3r » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:43 am

Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:50 am

ub3r wrote:Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?


very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions

ub3r
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby ub3r » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:12 am

Cool. Assuming there's no big Columbia aid offer, I'll probably go to UCLA. Thanks everyone.

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LawsRUs
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby LawsRUs » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:27 am

ub3r wrote:Cool. Assuming there's no big Columbia aid offer, I'll probably go to UCLA. Thanks everyone.


best wishes ub, we might end up at rival schools, i hope you don't hate us that much :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

ub3r
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby ub3r » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:32 am

LawsRUs wrote:
ub3r wrote:Cool. Assuming there's no big Columbia aid offer, I'll probably go to UCLA. Thanks everyone.


best wishes ub, we might end up at rival schools, i hope you don't hate us that much :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Nah man, not at all. Best of luck to you as well. :D

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Eladriel
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Eladriel » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:52 am

jbagelboy wrote:
ub3r wrote:Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?


very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions


When you pay for Columbia aren't you paying for that management of risk? National job placement options that beat even the local schools, generous curve, non-discretionary B-'s, Biglaw factory? As 0Ls we're supposed to assume we'll be median--median at CLS is still salvageable while median at UCLA isn't?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:15 am

Eladriel wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
ub3r wrote:Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?


very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions


When you pay for Columbia aren't you paying for that management of risk? National job placement options that beat even the local schools, generous curve, non-discretionary B-'s, Biglaw factory? As 0Ls we're supposed to assume we'll be median--median at CLS is still salvageable while median at UCLA isn't?


Well, sure. Median at CLS is a lot better than salvageable: it's a set of great offers and summering at a V20, assuming you're an okay interviewer. Bottom third is better described as "salvageable." Also, there's a question of firm quality: CLS's preeminence shows even more in elite corporate firms. But as a response to uber's question, no *grad* from any school can show up in another market and get a job at a good firm, that's not how recruiting works. A few other points:

*the B- are discretionary; they aren't on the curve. That's the whole advantage. You can be near the bottom of every class (straight B's) and still make it through EIP.

**Biglaw factory, eh. Maybe for a majority. Don't underestimate the placement power into federal government positions and national fellowships as well. The US Attorney General (highest gov attorney in the country), the Solicitor General, the Chair of the SEC, the AAG for the Criminal Division, ect. are all CLS grads.

***All this being said, for someone who wants to work long-term in Los Angeles at a firm, it's probably not worth moving across the country and borrowing $200,000 extra cash for these perks.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:19 am

ub3r wrote:REASONS FOR UCLA:
-Tuition is $5k a year, and I might be able to make that $0 after negotiation.
-I can foster LA/NorCal connections while still in school more readily than I can in NYC.
-I like living in California more than New England.
-Easier on relationship with girlfriend.


Also, New York is not New England. New England is way worse.

BigZuck
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby BigZuck » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:30 am

Eladriel wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
ub3r wrote:Really though, can a recent Columbia grad walk into a firm in California, cut in front of the UCLA grads, and get that sweet legal job no sweat? Metaphorical and exaggerated, but how close to the truth is that?


very far, since most firm recruiting occurs late summer after 1L. That being said, large firms would definitely go lower into the class at CLS at OCI ("cut in front"), but that doesn't mean you should go there at that cost. It also depends on ties: obviously the CLS student will have to meet a higher bar in terms of convincing the employer they actually want to be in CA. For small firms and public interest recruiting that actually does happen post-grad, UCLA probably has a leg up due to networking/local connections required for such positions


When you pay for Columbia aren't you paying for that management of risk? National job placement options that beat even the local schools, generous curve, non-discretionary B-'s, Biglaw factory? As 0Ls we're supposed to assume we'll be median--median at CLS is still salvageable while median at UCLA isn't?

You seriously want to pay 300K to have this dude's life?:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=241821

Paying 300K for a ticket to line up at the big law drone factory makes no sense. Pay for a cheaper ticket to line up at the big law drone factory. Or, don't even bother with the drone factory at all. Find something better to do with your life. Working big law in a high cost of living place with 300K debt hanging over your head sounds like a really terrible situation to be in. And it's totally avoidable.

Don't do it kid.

ub3r
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby ub3r » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:07 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
ub3r wrote:REASONS FOR UCLA:
-Tuition is $5k a year, and I might be able to make that $0 after negotiation.
-I can foster LA/NorCal connections while still in school more readily than I can in NYC.
-I like living in California more than New England.
-Easier on relationship with girlfriend.


Also, New York is not New England. New England is way worse.

Heh, I was wondering if someone would catch this. I'm not a NYC fan either, but it's definitely preferable to Boston and the rest of those little states.

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Eladriel
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby Eladriel » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:47 pm

We're not talking about Boston from a legal perspective right? Just Boston in general?

ub3r
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby ub3r » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:39 pm

Yeah. Don't like the city. Know some good people there, but I don't like it at all.

Know nothing about the legal market.

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby BiglawAssociate » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:19 pm

None of the above.

iliketurtles123
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby iliketurtles123 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:46 pm

Columbia @ sticker is 99% worth it IMO if you want NYC biglaw

Seems like you don't even want biglaw though so I'd go UCLA 100%

Don't underestimate the difficulty of long-distance relationships, especially during law school.

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smaug
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Re: Columbia (sticker) vs UCLA ($$$)

Postby smaug » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:17 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Well, sure. Median at CLS is a lot better than salvageable: it's a set of great offers and summering at a V20, assuming you're an okay interviewer. Bottom third is better described as "salvageable."


I'm sure this is true of people you know, but this is overstating things. How many of the offers for median CLS students are from Willkie and SRZ alone? Cahill? I mean, yeah you have some massive summer classes in the V20 who take students down to median, but again, "set of great offers and summering at a V20" isn't the modal outcome for a median student at CLS.

Would agree that median is more than "salvageable" though.




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