UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

UVA
10
48%
Michigan
3
14%
GULC
0
No votes
UT
8
38%
 
Total votes: 21

mindthegap
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby mindthegap » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:19 am

Since most of the schools I've yet to hear from are mega-reach schools, I'm currently operating under the assumption that these will be my best options and offers. I know what I'm leaning towards but it'd be nice to hear from other people outside my family and friends who think the choice is obvious. I'll be as detailed as possible - thanks in advance! :D

-The schools you are considering

(Scholarships are over 3 years- assuming I don't suck.)
UVA: $75,000
Michigan: $75,000
GULC: $90,000
UT: Full-ride (Chancellor's Scholarship)

-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.

These are approximates as I haven't quite worked out how much my family will be contributing - but let's say at repayment:

UVA: $122,000
Michigan: $111,000
GULC: $120,000
UT: I'm putting this at $0 for me because my fiance/husband will likely be able to pay our entire COL in this situation.

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings

Primarily loans, though I know I can expect some money from my family (amount TBD) and my fiance/husband will be contributing towards the overall cost of living (or paying it all if we end up at Texas).

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

I am from southern California and have incredibly strong ties to SD/LA. I also have ties to Texas (Houston, Austin) and Florida (Sarasota), though they are much weaker ties and I have zero interest in practicing in Florida. I would not necessarily be opposed to working in Texas but I would like to have the option to leave. I also have ties to the UK but I'm not really entertaining the idea of converting my degree to move back over here later, unless I get some amazing offer at an American firm. I would ideally like to practice in NYC for a decade or so and then move back to California.

-Your general career goals

Honestly, after working for both big- and mid-sized firms, I'm pretty sure I want to do 5-10 years in big law (most likely IP/commercial) and then probably get out. I don't necessarily see myself as a big law-lifer and I won't cry if I downsize after getting the career experience.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers

164/3.57

-How many times you have taken the LSAT

Twice - same score twice. Not retaking, although I think I could do better. Before you say it, no, I'm not stubborn and yes, I know I'd have better scholarship prospects with even a 167+ score. I have a chronic and actually rather limiting motor-related physical disability and, for whatever reason, LSAC has denied my request for accommodations 3 times even though I've received disability accommodations since elementary school (didn't bother taking the test the third time after they denied my petition). Under the standard testing conditions, I believe my score is my cap; however, I'd happily consider retaking and sitting out for a year if LSAC would change its mind.

-Other factors

My soon to be spouse will be moving from the UK to live in America with me. He has his own business in the UK so I'm lucky in that I don't have to worry about him finding a job in the States; however, I worry that if I attend a school in a predominantly college town, he may have trouble meeting people and/or be bored.

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PhilippeStandingOnIt
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Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby PhilippeStandingOnIt » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:40 am

Texas for FREE (not just free tuition, but paid everything) seems like a really hard deal to turn down, unless-

1) You truly can't stomach the thought of staying in Texas when you're through; or,
2) Your fiancee's income is such that loan repayments will be trivial regardless of your own outcome.

mindthegap
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby mindthegap » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:03 am

PhilippeStandingOnIt wrote:Texas for FREE (not just free tuition, but paid everything) seems like a really hard deal to turn down, unless-

1) You truly can't stomach the thought of staying in Texas when you're through; or,
2) Your fiancee's income is such that loan repayments will be trivial regardless of your own outcome.


Thank you for your response! Everyone I've told about my Texas offer has said it's the obvious choice but it's hard for me to give up on UVA because it was one of my top choices this cycle. My fiance's income is such that my loans likely won't impact our lives too much - I suppose it'd just be nice to not have to take them out at all. :lol:

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middlebear
Posts: 543
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Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby middlebear » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:32 am

mindthegap wrote:Everyone I've told about my Texas offer has said it's the obvious choice but it's hard for me to give up on UVA because it was one of my top choices this cycle. My fiance's income is such that my loans likely won't impact our lives too much - I suppose it'd just be nice to not have to take them out at all. :lol:


I mean, if the loans won't seriously cramp your guys's lifestyle, I think I'd go UVA, just because it does offer the best job options (portable!) out of these at what I think is a totally defensible price.

mindthegap
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby mindthegap » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:06 pm

middlebear wrote:
mindthegap wrote:Everyone I've told about my Texas offer has said it's the obvious choice but it's hard for me to give up on UVA because it was one of my top choices this cycle. My fiance's income is such that my loans likely won't impact our lives too much - I suppose it'd just be nice to not have to take them out at all. :lol:


I mean, if the loans won't seriously cramp your guys's lifestyle, I think I'd go UVA, just because it does offer the best job options (portable!) out of these at what I think is a totally defensible price.


Thank you for your opinion!

I guess I'm a little surprised that UT is the overwhelming poll-winner so far considering my goals of NYC/CA. Is the logic here that Texas for free > portability?

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MarkfromWI
Posts: 236
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Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby MarkfromWI » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:17 pm

If you believe your debt at repayment for UVA is only going to be $120K-$125K, I'd take that over UT in a heartbeat. The much better job opportunities right out of the gate, especially for NYC, make it money well-invested.

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PhilippeStandingOnIt
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:58 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby PhilippeStandingOnIt » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:18 pm

mindthegap wrote:
middlebear wrote:
mindthegap wrote:Everyone I've told about my Texas offer has said it's the obvious choice but it's hard for me to give up on UVA because it was one of my top choices this cycle. My fiance's income is such that my loans likely won't impact our lives too much - I suppose it'd just be nice to not have to take them out at all. :lol:


I mean, if the loans won't seriously cramp your guys's lifestyle, I think I'd go UVA, just because it does offer the best job options (portable!) out of these at what I think is a totally defensible price.


Thank you for your opinion!

I guess I'm a little surprised that UT is the overwhelming poll-winner so far considering my goals of NYC/CA. Is the logic here that Texas for free > portability?



I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the UVA offer. If I had $75,000 at UVA, I'd be heading there tomorrow....but I also don't have an offer of UT for free. I guess I view it like this:

[UVA likely hiring outcome] - [UT likely hiring outcome] = [UVA hiring advantage]
but,
[Flexibility afforded by $0 debt burden] > [UVA hiring advantage]

But A LOT of people on this forum and elsewhere may disagree with that sentiment, and their sentiments would be valid as well. You have to figure out which is more valuable to you.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:21 pm

I go to UT. I don't think UVA is worth 120K more than UT but if you want to be in NYC or back home in CA I think UT is kind of a non-starter.

So, with UT out I think UVA is the best option. Why not UCLA or USC?

I would retake June no matter what to squeeze some more money out of those bloodsuckers.

Send me a PM if you want some anecdotes on job hunting out of state from UT.

mindthegap
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby mindthegap » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:27 pm

PhilippeStandingOnIt wrote:I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the UVA offer. If I had $75,000 at UVA, I'd be heading there tomorrow....but I also don't have an offer of UT for free. I guess I view it like this:

[UVA likely hiring outcome] - [UT likely hiring outcome] = [UVA hiring advantage]
but,
[Flexibility afforded by $0 debt burden] > [UVA hiring advantage]

But A LOT of people on this forum and elsewhere may disagree with that sentiment, and their sentiments would be valid as well. You have to figure out which is more valuable to you.


Thank you for fleshing that out for me. My family is 100% in the camp that UT free is the only logical choice and can't believe I'm still considering anything else. I'm still undecided but it's nice to know UVA isn't a completely crazy option.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:31 pm

mindthegap wrote:
PhilippeStandingOnIt wrote:I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking the UVA offer. If I had $75,000 at UVA, I'd be heading there tomorrow....but I also don't have an offer of UT for free. I guess I view it like this:

[UVA likely hiring outcome] - [UT likely hiring outcome] = [UVA hiring advantage]
but,
[Flexibility afforded by $0 debt burden] > [UVA hiring advantage]

But A LOT of people on this forum and elsewhere may disagree with that sentiment, and their sentiments would be valid as well. You have to figure out which is more valuable to you.


Thank you for fleshing that out for me. My family is 100% in the camp that UT free is the only logical choice and can't believe I'm still considering anything else. I'm still undecided but it's nice to know UVA isn't a completely crazy option.

Has your family ever tried to get a job in CA or NY from UT? Getting big law in TX will be a tall enough order for a Californian but getting it out of state is getting to require some pretty darn good grades.

mindthegap
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby mindthegap » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:37 pm

BigZuck wrote:I go to UT. I don't think UVA is worth 120K more than UT but if you want to be in NYC or back home in CA I think UT is kind of a non-starter.

So, with UT out I think UVA is the best option. Why not UCLA or USC?

I would retake June no matter what to squeeze some more money out of those bloodsuckers.

Send me a PM if you want some anecdotes on job hunting out of state from UT.


Thanks for your input! I'm still waiting to hear back from USC, didn't apply to UCLA. Truthfully, I applied primarily to T-14 and southern regional schools because the majority of my family now lives in the south and I figured if I didn't get any T-14 options, I'd at least be close to them. Returning to CA isn't an immediate goal (I'd rather be in NYC at first), which is why I didn't target more CA schools.

As I said in my OP, I'm not sure how beneficial retaking will really be for me at this time. I will look into it, though.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:41 pm

mindthegap wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I go to UT. I don't think UVA is worth 120K more than UT but if you want to be in NYC or back home in CA I think UT is kind of a non-starter.

So, with UT out I think UVA is the best option. Why not UCLA or USC?

I would retake June no matter what to squeeze some more money out of those bloodsuckers.

Send me a PM if you want some anecdotes on job hunting out of state from UT.


Thanks for your input! I'm still waiting to hear back from USC, didn't apply to UCLA. Truthfully, I applied primarily to T-14 and southern regional schools because the majority of my family now lives in the south and I figured if I didn't get any T-14 options, I'd at least be close to them. Returning to CA isn't an immediate goal (I'd rather be in NYC at first), which is why I didn't target more CA schools.

As I said in my OP, I'm not sure how beneficial retaking will really be for me at this time. I will look into it, though.

Applying to USC but not UCLA is kind of odd to me. You should throw out the broadest net possible and if you're willing to go to USC then you should also be willing to go to UCLA.

Considering NYC as the primary target, what were your offers at Cornell/Duke?

mindthegap
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:29 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby mindthegap » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:45 pm

BigZuck wrote:Has your family ever tried to get a job in CA or NY from UT? Getting big law in TX will be a tall enough order for a Californian but getting it out of state is getting to require some pretty darn good grades.


This is what I tried telling them, actually. Unfortunately, they are friends with IP lawyers and those attorneys have them convinced that IP (what I think I want to practice) will open any doors that would otherwise be closed. I'm assuming this isn't universally true.

Yeah, it may be odd that I didn't apply to UCLA but it is what it is.
Reserve at Cornell, haven't heard back from Duke.

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middlebear
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 4:48 pm

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby middlebear » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:45 pm

mindthegap wrote:My family is 100% in the camp that UT free is the only logical choice and can't believe I'm still considering anything else. I'm still undecided but it's nice to know UVA isn't a completely crazy option.


Just straight up tell them you're not going to be able to get the jobs you want out of UT.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: UVA vs. Michigan vs. GULC vs. UT

Postby BigZuck » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:48 pm

mindthegap wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Has your family ever tried to get a job in CA or NY from UT? Getting big law in TX will be a tall enough order for a Californian but getting it out of state is getting to require some pretty darn good grades.


This is what I tried telling them, actually. Unfortunately, they are friends with IP lawyers and those attorneys have them convinced that IP (what I think I want to practice) will open any doors that would otherwise be closed. I'm assuming this isn't universally true.

Yeah, it may be odd that I didn't apply to UCLA but it is what it is.
Reserve at Cornell, haven't heard back from Duke.

You have the science/technical background to be IP eligible? That might make me a bit more amenable to UT then I guess. For some reason I missed that.




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