Iowa vs Illinois

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Ms4life
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Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Ms4life » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:25 pm

I made a similar post in the past with a few more schools as an option, and many weighed in saying that Illinois is the better choice, all things being equal, than Iowa. As Iowa is a higher ranked school (according to both US news and above the law) I'm wondering why everyone, and I mean everyone, that chimed in stated that Illinois is the better option? I'm attending the admitted students day at Illinois this Friday, so I hope it lives up to its reputation

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KMart
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby KMart » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:49 pm

It depends where you want to work. Illinois can put you in Chicago. Iowa cannot. If you want to work in the middle of nowhere, Iowa is a fine school. Don't base your decision on US rankings as they really don't matter too much.

allamerican73
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby allamerican73 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:02 pm

Illinois was "ranked" much higher for decades (FWTW) until the recent admissions "scandal" resulted in some punishing peer review scores. Most practitioners believe that Illinois retains a higher prestige (and stronger placement) for the Chicago market than several of its other Midwestern state school peers (except of course for Michigan).

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KMart
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby KMart » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:03 pm

allamerican73 wrote:Illinois retains a higher prestige (and stronger placement) for the Chicago market than several of its other Midwestern state school peers (except of course for Michigan).

(uChi, Northwestern - a good point nonetheless, just wanted to add in)

BigZuck
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:11 pm

Ms4life wrote:I made a similar post in the past with a few more schools as an option, and many weighed in saying that Illinois is the better choice, all things being equal, than Iowa. As Iowa is a higher ranked school (according to both US news and above the law) I'm wondering why everyone, and I mean everyone, that chimed in stated that Illinois is the better option? I'm attending the admitted students day at Illinois this Friday, so I hope it lives up to its reputation

Why are these rankings meaningful to you?

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:16 pm

KMart wrote:It depends where you want to work. Illinois can put you in Chicago. Iowa cannot. If you want to work in the middle of nowhere, Iowa is a fine school. Don't base your decision on US rankings as they really don't matter too much.


Interested on why you say Iowa can't get you Chicago? the 2013 Nalp/ABA employment reports show over 10% of graduate were working in Illinois.

BigZuck
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:19 pm

Dream_weaver32 wrote:
KMart wrote:It depends where you want to work. Illinois can put you in Chicago. Iowa cannot. If you want to work in the middle of nowhere, Iowa is a fine school. Don't base your decision on US rankings as they really don't matter too much.


Interested on why you say Iowa can't get you Chicago? the 2013 Nalp/ABA employment reports show over 10% of graduate were working in Illinois.

These people were all working in Chicago? As lawyers?

Wingtip88
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Wingtip88 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:19 pm

OP - focus on jobs and debt.

What kind of job do you want? Do the schools you're considering give you a strong shot at attaining such a job? Will that job pay well enough to allow you to maintain a reasonable quality of life while making progress against your student loans?

These are the questions to be asking yourself.

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:23 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Dream_weaver32 wrote:
KMart wrote:It depends where you want to work. Illinois can put you in Chicago. Iowa cannot. If you want to work in the middle of nowhere, Iowa is a fine school. Don't base your decision on US rankings as they really don't matter too much.


Interested on why you say Iowa can't get you Chicago? the 2013 Nalp/ABA employment reports show over 10% of graduate were working in Illinois.

These people were all working in Chicago? As lawyers?


Never said all were in Chicago, didn't say any were. Was just asking why Iowa absolutely can't get you a job in Chicago.

BigZuck
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:32 pm

Dream_weaver32 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Dream_weaver32 wrote:
KMart wrote:It depends where you want to work. Illinois can put you in Chicago. Iowa cannot. If you want to work in the middle of nowhere, Iowa is a fine school. Don't base your decision on US rankings as they really don't matter too much.


Interested on why you say Iowa can't get you Chicago? the 2013 Nalp/ABA employment reports show over 10% of graduate were working in Illinois.

These people were all working in Chicago? As lawyers?


Never said all were in Chicago, didn't say any were. Was just asking why Iowa absolutely can't get you a job in Chicago.

Does it even say any are lawyers?

Best I can tell, all these people could be baristas in BFE Illinois

sprinky07
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby sprinky07 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:47 pm

Best I can tell, all these people could be baristas in BFE Illinois


True, but I doubt many would respond to employment questionnaires from their law school if their law degree only netted that person a job as a barista.

Better guess is that a few landed jobs in IL via grades, whereas most of the others had IL connections.

03152016
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby 03152016 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:52 pm

Ms4life wrote:I made a similar post in the past with a few more schools as an option, and many weighed in saying that Illinois is the better choice, all things being equal, than Iowa. As Iowa is a higher ranked school (according to both US news and above the law) I'm wondering why everyone, and I mean everyone, that chimed in stated that Illinois is the better option? I'm attending the admitted students day at Illinois this Friday, so I hope it lives up to its reputation

which school is the better choice depends on what your goals are and what the costs are
whether one school is ranked higher or considered more prestigious is irrelevant to the decision you have to make as a prospective law student

BigZuck
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:54 pm

sprinky07 wrote:
Best I can tell, all these people could be baristas in BFE Illinois


True, but I doubt many would respond to employment questionnaires from their law school if their law degree only netted that person a job as a barista.

Better guess is that a few landed jobs in IL via grades, whereas most of the others had IL connections.

I think 0% were unknown.

Looks like only 7 employed people were in professional or non-professional jobs so those would be were baristas would fall. Like 20 JD advantage.

I'm sure that there are Chicago lawyers in that 11% but we can't know how many are full on real lawyers

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reasonable person
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby reasonable person » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:14 pm

Where is darascal?

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cron1834
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby cron1834 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:16 pm

Lots of Chicagoland peeps go to Iowa undergrad, but that's not really a thing at the law school. Even if you make generous assumptions about the 10% of Iowa Law grads that end up in Illinois, that's still a shitty number.

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:41 pm

cron1834 wrote:Lots of Chicagoland peeps go to Iowa undergrad, but that's not really a thing at the law school. Even if you make generous assumptions about the 10% of Iowa Law grads that end up in Illinois, that's still a shitty number.


No one was arguing it was the right idea to go to Iowa expecting Chicago. It was just the assumption that it's not possible to get Chicago from Iowa that started this discussion.

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:42 pm

reasonable person wrote:Where is darascal?


Wake Forest.

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cron1834
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby cron1834 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:51 pm

Dream_weaver32 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:Lots of Chicagoland peeps go to Iowa undergrad, but that's not really a thing at the law school. Even if you make generous assumptions about the 10% of Iowa Law grads that end up in Illinois, that's still a shitty number.


No one was arguing it was the right idea to go to Iowa expecting Chicago. It was just the assumption that it's not possible to get Chicago from Iowa that started this discussion.

It's clearly possible. After all, 4 of them did it.

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reasonable person
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby reasonable person » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:55 pm

I met a guy from Coololey at a bigfirm in Chicago. Granted he was doing IP Prosecution and had Ph.D.

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AT9
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby AT9 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:00 am

Dream_weaver32 wrote:
reasonable person wrote:Where is darascal?


Wake Forest.


Thought he ruled us Deacons out after the US News drop.

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Dream_weaver32
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby Dream_weaver32 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:11 am

AT9 wrote:
Dream_weaver32 wrote:
reasonable person wrote:Where is darascal?


Wake Forest.


Thought he ruled us Deacons out after the US News drop.


Probably right. He's probably at a poker table working on his bankroll.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:08 pm

BigZuck wrote:
sprinky07 wrote:
Best I can tell, all these people could be baristas in BFE Illinois


True, but I doubt many would respond to employment questionnaires from their law school if their law degree only netted that person a job as a barista.

Better guess is that a few landed jobs in IL via grades, whereas most of the others had IL connections.

I think 0% were unknown.

Looks like only 7 employed people were in professional or non-professional jobs so those would be were baristas would fall. Like 20 JD advantage.

I'm sure that there are Chicago lawyers in that 11% but we can't know how many are full on real lawyers


Even if 11% were actually practicing as attorneys, that number doesn't say much. There's plenty of shitty law firms, along with a number of nonprofits, that pay like $40k /year or less in Chicago. $40k /year or less as a practicing attorney is not a good outcome, given that most people could make more in a non-legal job. (Granted the nonprofit would be PSLF qualifying employment, PSLF wouldn't be a concern in the first place if you avoided law school altogether.)

The Dark Shepard
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby The Dark Shepard » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:44 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
sprinky07 wrote:
Best I can tell, all these people could be baristas in BFE Illinois


True, but I doubt many would respond to employment questionnaires from their law school if their law degree only netted that person a job as a barista.

Better guess is that a few landed jobs in IL via grades, whereas most of the others had IL connections.

I think 0% were unknown.

Looks like only 7 employed people were in professional or non-professional jobs so those would be were baristas would fall. Like 20 JD advantage.

I'm sure that there are Chicago lawyers in that 11% but we can't know how many are full on real lawyers


Even if 11% were actually practicing as attorneys, that number doesn't say much. There's plenty of shitty law firms, along with a number of nonprofits, that pay like $40k /year or less in Chicago. $40k /year or less as a practicing attorney is not a good outcome, given that most people could make more in a non-legal job. (Granted the nonprofit would be PSLF qualifying employment, PSLF wouldn't be a concern in the first place if you avoided law school altogether.)


I feel its more likely that someone is aiming for a PI job than a shitlaw firm. I wouldn't say its a "bad result" if they go in planning for this as their main goal.

But that is neither here or there for the OP

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DaRascal
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby DaRascal » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:47 pm

Umm an admissions scandal means that the school cheated to get its ranking to begin with!
Illinois seems to have only been ranked higher than Iowa because it was gaming the system until it finally got caught.

We're deep into the 21st century and USNWR is much harder to dupe these days.

Iowa- #22 (Pushing for T20 status)
Illinois- #41 (Former T30 fading quickly)

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: Iowa vs Illinois

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:40 am

The Dark Shepard wrote:I feel its more likely that someone is aiming for a PI job than a shitlaw firm. I wouldn't say its a "bad result" if they go in planning for this as their main goal.


I dunno that many people go into law school planning to get a job that pays $40k /year or less. Even in the PI crowd, I think it's pretty rare that someone is aiming for a job that pays that poorly. I think a lot of people who fall into those PI jobs are people who couldn't find anything better, and they typically leave within a couple years (because the salary is too low to reasonably live off). You pretty much need to have someone supporting you or to be independently wealthy for that to be a reasonable salary (unless you're living somewhere like Lincoln, Nebraska).

DaRascal wrote:Umm an admissions scandal means that the school cheated to get its ranking to begin with!
Illinois seems to have only been ranked higher than Iowa because it was gaming the system until it finally got caught.

We're deep into the 21st century and USNWR is much harder to dupe these days.

Iowa- #22 (Pushing for T20 status)
Illinois- #41 (Former T30 fading quickly)



The rankings are pretty worthless on a national basis (unless you're talking about t14s). UIowa is okay if you want to work in Iowa or middle of nowhere. UIllinois is okay if you want to work in Illinois. There's not many Iowa grads in Chicago, and it's pretty hard to find something decent in Chicago with nothing more than an Iowa degree. It's also really dumb to go into law school splitting hairs this badly (i.e. deciding whether to go to a law school that's ranked at 22 over a school that's ranked 41), because the ranking vary vastly year-to-year, based on whatever the hell US News decides are good factors to rank law school with. And whether a school is ranked 22 or 41 has little to do with how it places in a particular market (again, your odds of finding a legal job in Illinois is better coming out of UIUC than it is coming out of UIowa). Personally, I wouldn't go to either law school, but if you had a bad GPA (where there's no possibility of getting reasonable scholarships at t14s) and are getting a full-ride at Iowa or Illinois, and have significant ties to whatever market the law school you're looking to go to is in, then I can see why you would go attend that school.




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