What's the deal with Harvard students?

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LoganCouture
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby LoganCouture » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:23 pm

0Lkid wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but just want to offer a non-circlejerk opinion. Also the question is about why Harvard students would go to Harvard, and as a 0L making that choice it could be a fresh perspective from someone who isn't a bitter 5 years out LS grad who still makes 300 posts on TLS per day. I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN. To me it really seems like most people on this site talk about life outcomes purely in terms of money, and while that it is a priority for some people, others, especially those interested in PI have other goals. Now of course, everyone can't be president or on the supreme court or whatever, but 100% of people in unicorn jobs had to fully commit to going for those unicorn jobs while being laughed at by people who said it was incredibly unlikely. Of course 99% of the people who go for them fail, but that's something the 1% takes into account, and it's not like the 99% get nothing if they don't make it.

TLS people would take a safe 2nd over a risky 1st, but that's not everyone, and someone who would rather go for gold while risking coming in 3rd isn't necessarily stupid, as TLS would have you believe. It's just a different level of risk aversion, which when calculated is perfectly reasonable.

Harvard will leave more doors open (or more widely open) than going to CCN in many many ways, so if that matters to someone, taking a pay-cut for a few years in your 20s really, really isn't a ridiculous trade-off. People have different preferences, and I think TLS is just hostile towards anyone who expects more than median of themselves and doesn't care a ton about having a lot of money all the time.

The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds (last time I did it I got too many hostile PMs, hence me creating a throwaway this time).


Sticker at Harvard (using lawschool22's calculator, which calculates in loan interest and an annual tuition and COL increase) would make your total debt at repayment approximately 310K. That's not a pay cut just for "a few years in your 20s." To leave with 100K of debt at H you would have to be getting more than the max need based aid award (which would leave you with roughly $170K debt at repayment).

Or, you know, have rich parents. And I don't really question why rich ppl take H over full-rides at CCN.

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acrossthelake
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:32 pm

There's more to life than having lots of money, but I'd argue it really sucks to have negative net worth. Most research between happiness and $ suggests there's a positive correlation until a pt where it levels off-generally the point where you can afford somewhere comfortable to live and to eat and take part in some entertainment without having to worry about money while also preparing for the future/retirement (What that $ is depends a lot on where you live and COL there). When you've got loans upon loans, the amt of money you need to earn is that much higher per month to reach that point.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:32 pm

0Lkid wrote: I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN.

Just a terrible post all the way around but this part was my favorite. So cryptic.

0Lkid
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 0Lkid » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:36 pm

lc39 wrote:
0Lkid wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but just want to offer a non-circlejerk opinion. Also the question is about why Harvard students would go to Harvard, and as a 0L making that choice it could be a fresh perspective from someone who isn't a bitter 5 years out LS grad who still makes 300 posts on TLS per day. I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN. To me it really seems like most people on this site talk about life outcomes purely in terms of money, and while that it is a priority for some people, others, especially those interested in PI have other goals. Now of course, everyone can't be president or on the supreme court or whatever, but 100% of people in unicorn jobs had to fully commit to going for those unicorn jobs while being laughed at by people who said it was incredibly unlikely. Of course 99% of the people who go for them fail, but that's something the 1% takes into account, and it's not like the 99% get nothing if they don't make it.

TLS people would take a safe 2nd over a risky 1st, but that's not everyone, and someone who would rather go for gold while risking coming in 3rd isn't necessarily stupid, as TLS would have you believe. It's just a different level of risk aversion, which when calculated is perfectly reasonable.

Harvard will leave more doors open (or more widely open) than going to CCN in many many ways, so if that matters to someone, taking a pay-cut for a few years in your 20s really, really isn't a ridiculous trade-off. People have different preferences, and I think TLS is just hostile towards anyone who expects more than median of themselves and doesn't care a ton about having a lot of money all the time.

The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds (last time I did it I got too many hostile PMs, hence me creating a throwaway this time).


Sticker at Harvard (using lawschool22's calculator, which calculates in loan interest and an annual tuition and COL increase) would make your total debt at repayment approximately 310K. That's not a pay cut just for "a few years in your 20s." To leave with 100K of debt at H you would have to be getting more than the max need based aid award (which would leave you with roughly $170K debt at repayment).

Or, you know, have rich parents. And I don't really question why rich ppl take H over full-rides at CCN.


Ok well if you have zero financial aid and zero parental contribution it could be different. I personally am looking at about 100k of debt, and that's close to my ceiling for going above the full-rides. However, my post isn't supposed to be just about me -- while i wouldn't go 200k into debt, someone else might care even less about money and be gunning for a SCOTUS clerkship even harder than me and I think that their choice to take 200k debt would be fine if they make it while understanding the risk/debts they're taking.
Last edited by 0Lkid on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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starry eyed
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:37 pm

acrossthelake wrote:There's more to life than having lots of money, but I'd argue it really sucks to have negative net worth. Most research between happiness and $ suggests there's a positive correlation until a pt where it levels off-generally the point where you can afford somewhere comfortable to live and to eat and take part in some entertainment without having to worry about money while also preparing for the future/retirement (What that $ is depends a lot on where you live and COL there). When you've got loans upon loans, the amt of money you need to earn is that much higher per month to reach that point.

research found 75k to be the magic number

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:38 pm

0Lkid wrote:
lc39 wrote:
0Lkid wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but just want to offer a non-circlejerk opinion. Also the question is about why Harvard students would go to Harvard, and as a 0L making that choice it could be a fresh perspective from someone who isn't a bitter 5 years out LS grad who still makes 300 posts on TLS per day. I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN. To me it really seems like most people on this site talk about life outcomes purely in terms of money, and while that it is a priority for some people, others, especially those interested in PI have other goals. Now of course, everyone can't be president or on the supreme court or whatever, but 100% of people in unicorn jobs had to fully commit to going for those unicorn jobs while being laughed at by people who said it was incredibly unlikely. Of course 99% of the people who go for them fail, but that's something the 1% takes into account, and it's not like the 99% get nothing if they don't make it.

TLS people would take a safe 2nd over a risky 1st, but that's not everyone, and someone who would rather go for gold while risking coming in 3rd isn't necessarily stupid, as TLS would have you believe. It's just a different level of risk aversion, which when calculated is perfectly reasonable.

Harvard will leave more doors open (or more widely open) than going to CCN in many many ways, so if that matters to someone, taking a pay-cut for a few years in your 20s really, really isn't a ridiculous trade-off. People have different preferences, and I think TLS is just hostile towards anyone who expects more than median of themselves and doesn't care a ton about having a lot of money all the time.

The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds (last time I did it I got too many hostile PMs, hence me creating a throwaway this time).


Sticker at Harvard (using lawschool22's calculator, which calculates in loan interest and an annual tuition and COL increase) would make your total debt at repayment approximately 310K. That's not a pay cut just for "a few years in your 20s." To leave with 100K of debt at H you would have to be getting more than the max need based aid award (which would leave you with roughly $170K debt at repayment).

Or, you know, have rich parents. And I don't really question why rich ppl take H over full-rides at CCN.


Ok well if you have zero financial aid and zero parental contribution it could be different. I personally am looking at about 100k of debt, and that's close to my ceiling for going above the full-rides. However, my post isn't supposed to be just about me -- while i wouldn't go 200k into debt, someone else might care even less about money and be gunning for a SCOTUS clerkship even harder than me and I think that their choice to take 200k debt would be fine if they make it while understanding the risk/debts they're taking.


Even the most pro-Columbia folks on here would support H at $100k debt. You've added nothing to an already defunct thread

0Lkid
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 0Lkid » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:42 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
0Lkid wrote:
lc39 wrote:
0Lkid wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but just want to offer a non-circlejerk opinion. Also the question is about why Harvard students would go to Harvard, and as a 0L making that choice it could be a fresh perspective from someone who isn't a bitter 5 years out LS grad who still makes 300 posts on TLS per day. I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN. To me it really seems like most people on this site talk about life outcomes purely in terms of money, and while that it is a priority for some people, others, especially those interested in PI have other goals. Now of course, everyone can't be president or on the supreme court or whatever, but 100% of people in unicorn jobs had to fully commit to going for those unicorn jobs while being laughed at by people who said it was incredibly unlikely. Of course 99% of the people who go for them fail, but that's something the 1% takes into account, and it's not like the 99% get nothing if they don't make it.

TLS people would take a safe 2nd over a risky 1st, but that's not everyone, and someone who would rather go for gold while risking coming in 3rd isn't necessarily stupid, as TLS would have you believe. It's just a different level of risk aversion, which when calculated is perfectly reasonable.

Harvard will leave more doors open (or more widely open) than going to CCN in many many ways, so if that matters to someone, taking a pay-cut for a few years in your 20s really, really isn't a ridiculous trade-off. People have different preferences, and I think TLS is just hostile towards anyone who expects more than median of themselves and doesn't care a ton about having a lot of money all the time.

The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds (last time I did it I got too many hostile PMs, hence me creating a throwaway this time).


Sticker at Harvard (using lawschool22's calculator, which calculates in loan interest and an annual tuition and COL increase) would make your total debt at repayment approximately 310K. That's not a pay cut just for "a few years in your 20s." To leave with 100K of debt at H you would have to be getting more than the max need based aid award (which would leave you with roughly $170K debt at repayment).

Or, you know, have rich parents. And I don't really question why rich ppl take H over full-rides at CCN.


Ok well if you have zero financial aid and zero parental contribution it could be different. I personally am looking at about 100k of debt, and that's close to my ceiling for going above the full-rides. However, my post isn't supposed to be just about me -- while i wouldn't go 200k into debt, someone else might care even less about money and be gunning for a SCOTUS clerkship even harder than me and I think that their choice to take 200k debt would be fine if they make it while understanding the risk/debts they're taking.


Even the most pro-Columbia folks on here would support H at $100k debt. You've added nothing to an already defunct thread


idk if you read the part where I said it's not just about me and I think even 200k+ debt could be fine if someone just has a different set of preferences. Point is everyone doesn't have the same level of risk-aversion with all their happiness tied to money.

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starry eyed
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:42 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
0Lkid wrote:
lc39 wrote:
0Lkid wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but just want to offer a non-circlejerk opinion. Also the question is about why Harvard students would go to Harvard, and as a 0L making that choice it could be a fresh perspective from someone who isn't a bitter 5 years out LS grad who still makes 300 posts on TLS per day. I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN. To me it really seems like most people on this site talk about life outcomes purely in terms of money, and while that it is a priority for some people, others, especially those interested in PI have other goals. Now of course, everyone can't be president or on the supreme court or whatever, but 100% of people in unicorn jobs had to fully commit to going for those unicorn jobs while being laughed at by people who said it was incredibly unlikely. Of course 99% of the people who go for them fail, but that's something the 1% takes into account, and it's not like the 99% get nothing if they don't make it.

TLS people would take a safe 2nd over a risky 1st, but that's not everyone, and someone who would rather go for gold while risking coming in 3rd isn't necessarily stupid, as TLS would have you believe. It's just a different level of risk aversion, which when calculated is perfectly reasonable.

Harvard will leave more doors open (or more widely open) than going to CCN in many many ways, so if that matters to someone, taking a pay-cut for a few years in your 20s really, really isn't a ridiculous trade-off. People have different preferences, and I think TLS is just hostile towards anyone who expects more than median of themselves and doesn't care a ton about having a lot of money all the time.

The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds (last time I did it I got too many hostile PMs, hence me creating a throwaway this time).


Sticker at Harvard (using lawschool22's calculator, which calculates in loan interest and an annual tuition and COL increase) would make your total debt at repayment approximately 310K. That's not a pay cut just for "a few years in your 20s." To leave with 100K of debt at H you would have to be getting more than the max need based aid award (which would leave you with roughly $170K debt at repayment).

Or, you know, have rich parents. And I don't really question why rich ppl take H over full-rides at CCN.


Ok well if you have zero financial aid and zero parental contribution it could be different. I personally am looking at about 100k of debt, and that's close to my ceiling for going above the full-rides. However, my post isn't supposed to be just about me -- while i wouldn't go 200k into debt, someone else might care even less about money and be gunning for a SCOTUS clerkship even harder than me and I think that their choice to take 200k debt would be fine if they make it while understanding the risk/debts they're taking.


Even the most pro-Columbia folks on here would support H at $100k debt. You've added nothing to an already defunct thread


I think he was trying to get TLSers off the backs of special snowflakes

edit:scooped

0Lkid
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 0Lkid » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:47 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
0Lkid wrote: I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN.

Just a terrible post all the way around but this part was my favorite. So cryptic.


Get a life mate, in >13k posts you could have learned a new instrument, a new language, found a job that doesn't make you bitter towards people who went to better schools. Not to insult all those with a ton of posts. Just the bitter ones.
Last edited by 0Lkid on Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bruinfan10
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby bruinfan10 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:48 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
0Lkid wrote: I would personally take even 100k of debt at Harvard (possibly more) instead of a half (over even a full) ride at CCN.

Just a terrible post all the way around but this part was my favorite. So cryptic.

+1

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acrossthelake
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:53 pm

starry eyed wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:There's more to life than having lots of money, but I'd argue it really sucks to have negative net worth. Most research between happiness and $ suggests there's a positive correlation until a pt where it levels off-generally the point where you can afford somewhere comfortable to live and to eat and take part in some entertainment without having to worry about money while also preparing for the future/retirement (What that $ is depends a lot on where you live and COL there). When you've got loans upon loans, the amt of money you need to earn is that much higher per month to reach that point.

research found 75k to be the magic number


Yes, but with inflation that number is probably out of date and the number is definitely higher in NYC and probs lower in rural South Dakota.

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starry eyed
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:58 pm

0Lkid wrote:Get a life mate, in >13k posts you could have learned a new instrument, a new language, found a job that doesn't make you bitter towards people who went to better schools. Not to insult all those with a ton of posts. Just the bitter ones.


Dude he is helping people make life changing decisions without compensation. Quit belittling this.

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smaug
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby smaug » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:00 pm

I too respond to "0Lkid" who joined today, April 1, 2015.

0Lkid
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 0Lkid » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:00 pm

starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:Get a life mate, in >13k posts you could have learned a new instrument, a new language, found a job that doesn't make you bitter towards people who went to better schools. Not to insult all those with a ton of posts. Just the bitter ones.


Dude he is helping people make life changing decisions without compensation. Quit belittling this.


Yea man, his reply really helped with my life decisions, it was super productive and informative

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starry eyed
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:02 pm

0Lkid wrote:
starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:Get a life mate, in >13k posts you could have learned a new instrument, a new language, found a job that doesn't make you bitter towards people who went to better schools. Not to insult all those with a ton of posts. Just the bitter ones.


Dude he is helping people make life changing decisions without compensation. Quit belittling this.


Yea man, his reply really helped with my life decisions, it was super productive and informative


you criticized his 13k posts, the vast majority are helpful or attempt to be

0Lkid
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 0Lkid » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:08 pm

starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:
starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:Get a life mate, in >13k posts you could have learned a new instrument, a new language, found a job that doesn't make you bitter towards people who went to better schools. Not to insult all those with a ton of posts. Just the bitter ones.


Dude he is helping people make life changing decisions without compensation. Quit belittling this.


Yea man, his reply really helped with my life decisions, it was super productive and informative


you criticized his 13k posts, the vast majority are helpful or attempt to be


If the few posts I've seen of his are truly outliers, then sure, perhaps I'm wrong. I somehow doubt that though and expect that he spends a lot of his time making condescending bitter remarks (perhaps among some helpful stuff) as that's often what I see from a lot of super-posters, but of course, could be wrong.

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starry eyed
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:42 pm

0Lkid wrote:
If the few posts I've seen of his are truly outliers, then sure, perhaps I'm wrong. I somehow doubt that though and expect that he spends a lot of his time making condescending bitter remarks (perhaps among some helpful stuff) as that's often what I see from a lot of super-posters, but of course, could be wrong.


i agree that the hivemind and condescending can be a little much; the mega posters tend to get away with more bc they've contributed more.

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:58 pm

0Lkid wrote:
starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:
0Lkid wrote:Get a life mate, in >13k posts you could have learned a new instrument, a new language, found a job that doesn't make you bitter towards people who went to better schools. Not to insult all those with a ton of posts. Just the bitter ones.


Yea man, his reply really helped with my life decisions, it was super productive and informative


you criticized his 13k posts, the vast majority are helpful or attempt to be


If the few posts I've seen of his are truly outliers, then sure, perhaps I'm wrong. I somehow doubt that though and expect that he spends a lot of his time making condescending bitter remarks (perhaps among some helpful stuff) as that's often what I see from a lot of super-posters, but of course, could be wrong.


why do you assume people who post a lot on here are bitter? some megaposters -- e.g., BruceWayne, might have some bitterness about the legal profession. Others like TS actually have very successful and lucrative careers. We aren't speaking from a place of bitterness, rather, from a place of relative success, which is what makes the advise valuable.

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:00 pm

starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:
If the few posts I've seen of his are truly outliers, then sure, perhaps I'm wrong. I somehow doubt that though and expect that he spends a lot of his time making condescending bitter remarks (perhaps among some helpful stuff) as that's often what I see from a lot of super-posters, but of course, could be wrong.


i agree that the hivemind and condescending can be a little much; the mega posters tend to get away with more bc they've contributed more.


making the legitimacy of "posts" about contribution to this forum is actually the belittling part. the legitimacy derives from the substantive experiences in and expose to the legal market

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starry eyed
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:10 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
starry eyed wrote:
0Lkid wrote:
If the few posts I've seen of his are truly outliers, then sure, perhaps I'm wrong. I somehow doubt that though and expect that he spends a lot of his time making condescending bitter remarks (perhaps among some helpful stuff) as that's often what I see from a lot of super-posters, but of course, could be wrong.


i agree that the hivemind and condescending can be a little much; the mega posters tend to get away with more bc they've contributed more.


making the legitimacy of "posts" about contribution to this forum is actually the belittling part. the legitimacy derives from the substantive experiences in and expose to the legal market


yea but the average tlser does not know these people are accomplished which is admittedly a challenge- for the most part they treat 0L advice equally to Biglaw associate advice.. I think profiles should have headings underneath them marking what level they are at in the legal profession.
Last edited by starry eyed on Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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yomisterd
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby yomisterd » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:12 pm

DUDE SRSLY

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:27 pm

0Lkid wrote:The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds (last time I did it I got too many hostile PMs, hence me creating a throwaway this time).

You don't get to create an alt because you don't want to deal with the consequences of unpopular opinions. If you run into problems with harassing PMs please contact a mod so we can address that.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby DoubleChecks » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:03 pm

0Lkid wrote:The Harvard name carries in a ton of weight in such a large number of fields outside of NYC BigLaw, but anyone who supports Harvard on these forums gets ripped to shreds


To be fair, it could be delivery. I am a big supporter of Harvard for various reasons -- some things it excels at, others it is meh -- and I do not recall any poster ever tearing me to shreds. Unsolicited advise, but for example, your post essentially started with insulting most people who had been commenting in this thread:

0Lkid wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but just want to offer a non-circlejerk opinion. Also the question is about why Harvard students would go to Harvard, and as a 0L making that choice it could be a fresh perspective from someone who isn't a bitter 5 years out LS grad who still makes 300 posts on TLS per day.


That's a lot of insults to open up your post with. Regardless of how the rest of your post went (and to be fair, a lot of the rest of it was not that inflammatory and pretty reasonable), it will not be received well. That's forums for you; heck, that's life for you. So I would not be too shocked if you end up garnering negative responses when you start by spitting in the faces of those you later ask for a napkin to dab up the specks that splashed back onto you.

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Atmosphere
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Atmosphere » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:14 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:In California pretty much everyone owns property worth 1 million and makes six figures...doesn't mean they are upper middle class, but I guess since COL is high, that might not count.


bit of a necro, but jesus christ does this drip of a Southern Orange County mentality.

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Clyde Frog
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Clyde Frog » Wed Apr 01, 2015 7:25 pm

Is 0LKid an April Fool's account?




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