What's the deal with Harvard students?

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LawBron James
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby LawBron James » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:28 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:There js also the occasional job opportunity I've seen only offered to YHS grads.

Describe and quantify this please. I'm not saying it's totally unreal, but I'm saying it's almost entirely unreal.

Associate at Pearson Hardman.

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:29 pm

LawBron James wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:There js also the occasional job opportunity I've seen only offered to YHS grads.

Describe and quantify this please. I'm not saying it's totally unreal, but I'm saying it's almost entirely unreal.

Associate at Pearson Hardman.


Nah they took a Columbia grad.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:30 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:There js also the occasional job opportunity I've seen only offered to YHS grads.

Describe and quantify this please. I'm not saying it's totally unreal, but I'm saying it's almost entirely unreal.


Its like how Quinn Emmanuel says "only top 10% need apply," but they take top 40% from CLS


Scooped, CLS plebe.

acrossthelake
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:30 pm

Off the top of my head, one of my classmates is working in-house straight out from law school, and the employer only interviewed at YHS, so, actually, in this case median at HLS had an opportunity that top at CLS didn't. But, these things are rare, so, again I'm not arguing it's worth paying sticker for, just that it exists. Don't strawman my point.

abl
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby abl » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:44 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Abl, I agree this thread is dead but explain that to us. Median at both schools will summer at some good firm. #1 at both schools can do whatever they want, probably COA-> scotus -> fellowship or lit boutique. Bottom person at both is most likely either at a very unselective firm or unemployed. I see zero difference in individual outcomes at those levels. The distinction occurs in murkier places in ranges.


I disagree. Outcomes across the board are somewhat murkier than this (especially for unicorn jobs).

It's simply my assertion--and it should not be a controversial one--that #1 at HLS tends to have a marginally wider array of options than #1 at CLS, median at HLS tends to have a marginally wider array of options than median at CLS, and last at HLS has a marginally wider array of options than last at CLS. I think we would agree that the "marginally wider array of options" available to both last at CLS and last at HLS aren't great, and that folks somewhere between last in the class and median generally end up in very similar places (and that #1s generally end up in similarly awesome places). That doesn't mean that HLS = no advantage. I think it's pretty self-evident that HLS is going to serve as a tiebreaker for two otherwise similarly situated candidates, and this effect is only enhanced by the marginally better in-school opportunities open to HLS kids. The question is not whether there is a difference across the board--it's in what circumstances that difference justifies paying more to go to Harvard (and how much more).

Finally, in response to a different poster, there are absolutely job opportunities only advertised to students at HLS. There are also job opportunities only advertised to students at CLS. From what I've seen, these school-specific sorts of opportunities tend to be the "best" outcomes (at least at top schools). I'd imagine that just about every law school has some unique options--often coming from alums, folks connected to professors, etc. But because the top schools tend to have the most connected profs, alums doing the most interesting work, most desirable students, etc, it's self-evident that better schools will tend to have more and better of these sorts of options available. (I saw some of this my 3L year, but the majority of the unique options I've seen have come in post-clerk hiring.) Once again, it's debatable how big of a difference this is between HLS and Columbia--two schools that are very similarly excellent (and how much of a COA difference this marginal increase justifies).

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:52 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
Jason Taverner wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:There js also the occasional job opportunity I've seen only offered to YHS grads.

Describe and quantify this please. I'm not saying it's totally unreal, but I'm saying it's almost entirely unreal.


Its like how Quinn Emmanuel says "only top 10% need apply," but they take top 40% from CLS


Scooped, CLS plebe.


Truth.

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Emma.
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Emma. » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:06 pm

Jason Taverner wrote:Concretely, what are these unicorn jobs y'all are talking about?

If they're really unicorn jobs, you're not getting them from median at either school.


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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby bearsfan23 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:11 pm

It's simply my assertion--and it should not be a controversial one--that #1 at HLS tends to have a marginally wider array of options than #1 at CLS,


Umm what? Please explain to me the "marginally wider array of options" the #1 ranked student would have at Harvard that the #1 ranked student at CLS wouldn't? Both are pretty much going to be able to do whatever they want.

This is why people think HLS students are insufferable

abl
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby abl » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:16 pm

bearsfan23 wrote:It's simply my assertion--and it should not be a controversial one--that #1 at HLS tends to have a marginally wider array of options than #1 at CLS,


Umm what? Please explain to me the "marginally wider array of options" the #1 ranked student would have at Harvard that the #1 ranked student at CLS wouldn't? Both are pretty much going to be able to do whatever they want.

This is why people think HLS students are insufferable


I'm saying #1 at HLS is marginally more likely to get a SCOTUS clerkship than #1 at CLS, marginally more likely to land DOJ honors, marginally more likely to land a plush position with the ACLU, marginally more likely to land a better TT teaching position, etc. The fact that both are going to be highly competitive for all of these positions doesn't mean that they will be as competitive. I'm sorry if you think stating this fairly obvious point makes me insufferable.

I'm not even arguing here that it's a big difference or a difference that justifies any real amount of debt level. My point is just that there is a difference.

bklynlady
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby bklynlady » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:42 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:
bruinfan10 wrote:
wsag826 wrote:It's a degree from a T3 law school, one of the most coveted things in the world.

Easy there sparky. :lol:

Also, I'm blown away that this thread is still alive.


Agreed on all counts. As OP I think this thing has pretty much run its course. That said, I think there was a lot of interesting discussion on several topics of interest to 0Ls, so I think it was a useful exercise.

Where else should we go? This was stimulating, fun, and interesting!

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby hdunlop » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:52 pm

jbagelboy wrote:There have been as many Columbia law presidents as Yale or Harvard (and 2 more than Stanford). The current president graduated from columbia college. CLS grads litter every echelon of gov't from attorney general on down


yeah but he never washed the stench of transfer off him

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star fox
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby star fox » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:15 pm

Don't most Clerks just go back to the big law firm they summered with when it's over?

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jselson
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jselson » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:21 pm

star fox wrote:Don't most Clerks just go back to the big law firm they summered with when it's over?


Yes, but they can do appellate stuff that non-clerks don't usually get to.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby UnicornHunter » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:53 pm

abl wrote:
bearsfan23 wrote:It's simply my assertion--and it should not be a controversial one--that #1 at HLS tends to have a marginally wider array of options than #1 at CLS,


Umm what? Please explain to me the "marginally wider array of options" the #1 ranked student would have at Harvard that the #1 ranked student at CLS wouldn't? Both are pretty much going to be able to do whatever they want.

This is why people think HLS students are insufferable


I'm saying #1 at HLS is marginally more likely to get a SCOTUS clerkship than #1 at CLS, marginally more likely to land DOJ honors, marginally more likely to land a plush position with the ACLU, marginally more likely to land a better TT teaching position, etc. The fact that both are going to be highly competitive for all of these positions doesn't mean that they will be as competitive. I'm sorry if you think stating this fairly obvious point makes me insufferable.

I'm not even arguing here that it's a big difference or a difference that justifies any real amount of debt level. My point is just that there is a difference.


At that level, background/interview skills/previous work experience/clubs/writing sample/recs/etc are going to matter much more than the difference between #1 at Harvard and #1 at Columbia. Both people are going to get a look for any job in the country that cares about grades and prestige. I really really doubt the tiebreaker will ever be, "well... she went to Harvard, so she must be a better candidate." I guess in some theoretical world where two identical twins have all the same experiences right up until one of them goes to Harvard and the other goes to Columbia, and then they do the exact same things at law school, it might be the tie breaker.

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BiglawAssociate
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby BiglawAssociate » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:55 pm

wsag826 wrote:If money is all you are concerned about...and all you will ever be concerned about...you might as well quit while you are ahead. Stop making payments on everything, close all of your bank accounts, and go rogue in some cabin in Wyoming and hide all of your money in your mattress.

I mean, seriously...some of these issues seem like personal problems. Your hours are too long? You're bummed by the COL in Manhattan? You hate your job as a lawyer?

None of these scenarios are valid reasons to suggest that someone, under no circumstances, should incur big debt to pursue the career of their dreams. Some of you who chase dollars literally seem like miserable people, who seem not to like any part of the profession of law but merely have done it for the dollar signs and thus cannot see anything else. But that is your prerogative. In any case, it validates the crux of my earlier argument: basing your entire decision to pursue law on the cost of attendance has got to be one of the biggest mistakes you can make. You can spend decades of your life rationalizing how much money you saved or how you beat "Boomer mentality" by refusing YHS at sticker or how you ended up exactly where you wanted to be or how you would've gone to H had you not gone to NYU. But all of these things are merely little tidbits of your life that do not make a person happy or proud of their career and accomplishments. If you feel you only need a Pepperdine degree to be the kind of lawyer you want to be, so be it. Or if you feel that all you need is a Duke degree to do well, so be it. But if you are staring down a YHS offer at sticker that you want...and rationalizing picking another school because it's cheaper...then all you are doing is robbing yourself of what you really want. And what you really want is not some kind of poison or death trap. It's a degree from a T3 law school, one of the most coveted things in the world.


I don't think you get it - the only thing that really matters in the real world (besides health and family) is money. Money buys you freedom, health (work less/sleep more), and happiness (do whatever you want when you want). Nobody gives a crap where you went for school outside of mainly just your first job and nobody you work with will ask you where you went to law school. People in biglaw don't talk about that kind of shit. A "degree" means jack shit in the real world without money backing it up. Money is practical; the "prestige" of your degree is just bullshit.

Also if you failed to realize - the only people willing to pay sticker at any law school are people who have never worked biglaw (and/or rich kids). I guarantee you'll change your tone in 4 years when you are working biglaw and wish you took the money. I frankly don't give a crap about what poors like you do who are too wrapped up in prestige to realize it doesn't matter, but stop giving bad advice to others. If you want to be poor for the next 10+ years of your life, stuck in a shitty job, be my guest, but don't give bad advice. I mean honestly, do you think you'll be the rare butterfly that "loves" the practice of law? Newsflash: The only people I know who enjoy practicing law are trust fund kids with no loans and can leave their job at any time (and as you might have figured, they aren't in biglaw but in jobs like public interest that pay shit, but they don't have to worry about money ever). (Most jobs in the legal profession are frankly shit.) The trust fund lawyers I know don't have the pressure of paying bills. If you have lots of money, you will likely live a much more stress free, happier life and then you can do whatever job you want.
Last edited by BiglawAssociate on Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bearsfan23
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby bearsfan23 » Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:04 am

BiglawAssociate wrote:
wsag826 wrote:If money is all you are concerned about...and all you will ever be concerned about...you might as well quit while you are ahead. Stop making payments on everything, close all of your bank accounts, and go rogue in some cabin in Wyoming and hide all of your money in your mattress.

I mean, seriously...some of these issues seem like personal problems. Your hours are too long? You're bummed by the COL in Manhattan? You hate your job as a lawyer?

None of these scenarios are valid reasons to suggest that someone, under no circumstances, should incur big debt to pursue the career of their dreams. Some of you who chase dollars literally seem like miserable people, who seem not to like any part of the profession of law but merely have done it for the dollar signs and thus cannot see anything else. But that is your prerogative. In any case, it validates the crux of my earlier argument: basing your entire decision to pursue law on the cost of attendance has got to be one of the biggest mistakes you can make. You can spend decades of your life rationalizing how much money you saved or how you beat "Boomer mentality" by refusing YHS at sticker or how you ended up exactly where you wanted to be or how you would've gone to H had you not gone to NYU. But all of these things are merely little tidbits of your life that do not make a person happy or proud of their career and accomplishments. If you feel you only need a Pepperdine degree to be the kind of lawyer you want to be, so be it. Or if you feel that all you need is a Duke degree to do well, so be it. But if you are staring down a YHS offer at sticker that you want...and rationalizing picking another school because it's cheaper...then all you are doing is robbing yourself of what you really want. And what you really want is not some kind of poison or death trap. It's a degree from a T3 law school, one of the most coveted things in the world.


I don't think you get it - the only thing that really matters in the real world (besides health and family) is money. Money buys you freedom, health (work less/sleep more), and happiness (do whatever you want when you want). Nobody gives a crap where you went for school outside of mainly just your first job and nobody you work with will ask you where you went to law school. People in biglaw don't talk about that kind of shit. A "degree" means jack shit in the real world without money backing it up. Money is practical; the "prestige" of your degree is just bullshit.

Also if you failed to realize - the only people willing to pay sticker at any law school are people who have never worked biglaw (and/or rich kids). I guarantee you'll change your tone in 4 years when you are working biglaw and wish you took the money. I frankly don't give a crap about what poors like you do who are too wrapped up in prestige to realize it doesn't matter, but stop giving bad advice to others. If you want to be poor for the next 10+ years of your life, be my guest, but don't give bad advice. I mean honestly, do you think you'll be the butterfly that "loves" the practice of law? Newsflash: The only people I know who enjoy practicing law are trust fund kids with no loans and can leave their job at any time (and as you might have figured, they aren't in biglaw but in jobs like public interest that pay shit, but they don't have to worry about money ever). They don't have the pressure of paying bills. If you have lots of money, you will likely live a much more stress free, happier life and then you can do whatever job you want.


Sounds like somebody had a bad day. Cheer up BIGLAW ASSOCIATE :D :wink:

abl
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby abl » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:59 am

Re middle class: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/23/middle-class-varies-from-30000-in-detroit-to-100000-in-san-francisco/

In the top-earning municipality in the country, San Jose, $250,000/year in household income would make you wealthier than 87% of all San Jose households (and would constitute approximately two and a half times the household earnings of the median household). In fact, $300,000/year is more than double the 75% percentile family income of 27/30 of the major metropolitan areas in the U.S.--which means that by the most common definition of "middle class," if you make $300,000/year, you make over twice what the wealthiest upper middle class families make in the vast majority of U.S. metropolitan areas. I think it's pretty safe to say that $300,000/year is upper class everywhere.

Re money: money is not necessarily all that matters. Obviously it's important, but so are things like the amount of time you spend with your family, the amount of personal enjoyment and satisfaction that you derive from your work, etc. At a certain level, lack of money may get in the way of a lot of those other things. But fortunately, there are plenty of non-biglaw jobs that pay enough to be above that level.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby CicerBRo » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:34 pm

Would I be wrong if I posited that there's a little bit of bitterness in this thread directed at HLS students, that is not related to the discussion at hand? (*Winces and crouches in anticipation of angry peeps.*) About the same amount of HLS students pay sticker as CCN students or Stanford students. Why single out HLS as opposed to, say, Stanford? Just curious.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby LetsGoMets » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:39 pm

CicerBRo wrote:Would I be wrong if I posited that there's a little bit of bitterness in this thread directed at HLS students, that is not related to the discussion at hand? (*Winces and crouches in anticipation of angry peeps.*) About the same amount of HLS students pay sticker as CCN students or Stanford students. Why single out HLS as opposed to, say, Stanford? Just curious.


I singled out H when I started the thread because I was asking about my experience there. A lot of people took it as an attack on the school, which wasn't my goal, but it partially became a thread for the HLS haters and defenders to hash out their usual disagreements.

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CicerBRo
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby CicerBRo » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:42 pm

LetsGoMets wrote:
CicerBRo wrote:Would I be wrong if I posited that there's a little bit of bitterness in this thread directed at HLS students, that is not related to the discussion at hand? (*Winces and crouches in anticipation of angry peeps.*) About the same amount of HLS students pay sticker as CCN students or Stanford students. Why single out HLS as opposed to, say, Stanford? Just curious.


I singled out H when I started the thread because I was asking about my experience there. A lot of people took it as an attack on the school, which wasn't my goal, but it partially became a thread for the HLS haters and defenders to hash out their usual disagreements.


Wasn't referring to you, OP, just the horde of people after you who seemed to be singling out HLS for attack and ignoring schools like SLS which should be amenable to the very same arguments.

abl
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby abl » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:46 pm

CicerBRo wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
CicerBRo wrote:Would I be wrong if I posited that there's a little bit of bitterness in this thread directed at HLS students, that is not related to the discussion at hand? (*Winces and crouches in anticipation of angry peeps.*) About the same amount of HLS students pay sticker as CCN students or Stanford students. Why single out HLS as opposed to, say, Stanford? Just curious.


I singled out H when I started the thread because I was asking about my experience there. A lot of people took it as an attack on the school, which wasn't my goal, but it partially became a thread for the HLS haters and defenders to hash out their usual disagreements.


Wasn't referring to you, OP, just the horde of people after you who seemed to be singling out HLS for attack and ignoring schools like SLS which should be amenable to the very same arguments.


Employment outcomes are materially different at HLS than SLS/YLS (and in many ways closer to Columbia than to SLS/YLS). I think many on this thread would acknowledge that it'd therefore be easier to justify debt for SLS/YLS than HLS when the alternative is Columbia.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby smaug » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:28 pm

CicerBRo wrote:Would I be wrong if I posited that there's a little bit of bitterness in this thread directed at HLS students, that is not related to the discussion at hand? (*Winces and crouches in anticipation of angry peeps.*) About the same amount of HLS students pay sticker as CCN students or Stanford students. Why single out HLS as opposed to, say, Stanford? Just curious.


Everything I'm saying I'd say to someone comparing e.g., a Darrow/a full ride at NU to a higher ranked school.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:29 pm

abl wrote:
CicerBRo wrote:
LetsGoMets wrote:
CicerBRo wrote:Would I be wrong if I posited that there's a little bit of bitterness in this thread directed at HLS students, that is not related to the discussion at hand? (*Winces and crouches in anticipation of angry peeps.*) About the same amount of HLS students pay sticker as CCN students or Stanford students. Why single out HLS as opposed to, say, Stanford? Just curious.


I singled out H when I started the thread because I was asking about my experience there. A lot of people took it as an attack on the school, which wasn't my goal, but it partially became a thread for the HLS haters and defenders to hash out their usual disagreements.


Wasn't referring to you, OP, just the horde of people after you who seemed to be singling out HLS for attack and ignoring schools like SLS which should be amenable to the very same arguments.


Employment outcomes are materially different at HLS than SLS/YLS (and in many ways closer to Columbia than to SLS/YLS). I think many on this thread would acknowledge that it'd therefore be easier to justify debt for SLS/YLS than HLS when the alternative is Columbia.


^agree (acknowledging theres also a difference b/t Y and S)

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Mozart Lacrimosa » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:10 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:
wsag826 wrote:If money is all you are concerned about...and all you will ever be concerned about...you might as well quit while you are ahead. Stop making payments on everything, close all of your bank accounts, and go rogue in some cabin in Wyoming and hide all of your money in your mattress.

I mean, seriously...some of these issues seem like personal problems. Your hours are too long? You're bummed by the COL in Manhattan? You hate your job as a lawyer?

None of these scenarios are valid reasons to suggest that someone, under no circumstances, should incur big debt to pursue the career of their dreams. Some of you who chase dollars literally seem like miserable people, who seem not to like any part of the profession of law but merely have done it for the dollar signs and thus cannot see anything else. But that is your prerogative. In any case, it validates the crux of my earlier argument: basing your entire decision to pursue law on the cost of attendance has got to be one of the biggest mistakes you can make. You can spend decades of your life rationalizing how much money you saved or how you beat "Boomer mentality" by refusing YHS at sticker or how you ended up exactly where you wanted to be or how you would've gone to H had you not gone to NYU. But all of these things are merely little tidbits of your life that do not make a person happy or proud of their career and accomplishments. If you feel you only need a Pepperdine degree to be the kind of lawyer you want to be, so be it. Or if you feel that all you need is a Duke degree to do well, so be it. But if you are staring down a YHS offer at sticker that you want...and rationalizing picking another school because it's cheaper...then all you are doing is robbing yourself of what you really want. And what you really want is not some kind of poison or death trap. It's a degree from a T3 law school, one of the most coveted things in the world.


I don't think you get it - the only thing that really matters in the real world (besides health and family) is money. Money buys you freedom, health (work less/sleep more), and happiness (do whatever you want when you want). Nobody gives a crap where you went for school outside of mainly just your first job and nobody you work with will ask you where you went to law school. People in biglaw don't talk about that kind of shit. A "degree" means jack shit in the real world without money backing it up. Money is practical; the "prestige" of your degree is just bullshit.

Also if you failed to realize - the only people willing to pay sticker at any law school are people who have never worked biglaw (and/or rich kids). I guarantee you'll change your tone in 4 years when you are working biglaw and wish you took the money. I frankly don't give a crap about what poors like you do who are too wrapped up in prestige to realize it doesn't matter, but stop giving bad advice to others. If you want to be poor for the next 10+ years of your life, stuck in a shitty job, be my guest, but don't give bad advice. I mean honestly, do you think you'll be the rare butterfly that "loves" the practice of law? Newsflash: The only people I know who enjoy practicing law are trust fund kids with no loans and can leave their job at any time (and as you might have figured, they aren't in biglaw but in jobs like public interest that pay shit, but they don't have to worry about money ever). (Most jobs in the legal profession are frankly shit.) The trust fund lawyers I know don't have the pressure of paying bills. If you have lots of money, you will likely live a much more stress free, happier life and then you can do whatever job you want.


Posts like this are confusing to 0Ls like myself. To make an informed decision about the debt load to take on for the more prestigious school, it is critical to know how much your school's reputation helps you advance x years after grad. Granted that is tough data to conclude but still conflicting anecdotes are troubling.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby LetsGoMets » Wed Mar 25, 2015 1:40 pm

Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:
wsag826 wrote:If money is all you are concerned about...and all you will ever be concerned about...you might as well quit while you are ahead. Stop making payments on everything, close all of your bank accounts, and go rogue in some cabin in Wyoming and hide all of your money in your mattress.

I mean, seriously...some of these issues seem like personal problems. Your hours are too long? You're bummed by the COL in Manhattan? You hate your job as a lawyer?

None of these scenarios are valid reasons to suggest that someone, under no circumstances, should incur big debt to pursue the career of their dreams. Some of you who chase dollars literally seem like miserable people, who seem not to like any part of the profession of law but merely have done it for the dollar signs and thus cannot see anything else. But that is your prerogative. In any case, it validates the crux of my earlier argument: basing your entire decision to pursue law on the cost of attendance has got to be one of the biggest mistakes you can make. You can spend decades of your life rationalizing how much money you saved or how you beat "Boomer mentality" by refusing YHS at sticker or how you ended up exactly where you wanted to be or how you would've gone to H had you not gone to NYU. But all of these things are merely little tidbits of your life that do not make a person happy or proud of their career and accomplishments. If you feel you only need a Pepperdine degree to be the kind of lawyer you want to be, so be it. Or if you feel that all you need is a Duke degree to do well, so be it. But if you are staring down a YHS offer at sticker that you want...and rationalizing picking another school because it's cheaper...then all you are doing is robbing yourself of what you really want. And what you really want is not some kind of poison or death trap. It's a degree from a T3 law school, one of the most coveted things in the world.


I don't think you get it - the only thing that really matters in the real world (besides health and family) is money. Money buys you freedom, health (work less/sleep more), and happiness (do whatever you want when you want). Nobody gives a crap where you went for school outside of mainly just your first job and nobody you work with will ask you where you went to law school. People in biglaw don't talk about that kind of shit. A "degree" means jack shit in the real world without money backing it up. Money is practical; the "prestige" of your degree is just bullshit.

Also if you failed to realize - the only people willing to pay sticker at any law school are people who have never worked biglaw (and/or rich kids). I guarantee you'll change your tone in 4 years when you are working biglaw and wish you took the money. I frankly don't give a crap about what poors like you do who are too wrapped up in prestige to realize it doesn't matter, but stop giving bad advice to others. If you want to be poor for the next 10+ years of your life, stuck in a shitty job, be my guest, but don't give bad advice. I mean honestly, do you think you'll be the rare butterfly that "loves" the practice of law? Newsflash: The only people I know who enjoy practicing law are trust fund kids with no loans and can leave their job at any time (and as you might have figured, they aren't in biglaw but in jobs like public interest that pay shit, but they don't have to worry about money ever). (Most jobs in the legal profession are frankly shit.) The trust fund lawyers I know don't have the pressure of paying bills. If you have lots of money, you will likely live a much more stress free, happier life and then you can do whatever job you want.


Posts like this are confusing to 0Ls like myself. To make an informed decision about the debt load to take on for the more prestigious school, it is critical to know how much your school's reputation helps you advance x years after grad. Granted that is tough data to conclude but still conflicting anecdotes are troubling.


1) Nice avatar
2) Conflicting anecdotes is about all we can get or reasonably expect, unfortunately. That said, the poster you're quoting has shown himself to be a borderline troll who spreads misery under the guise of honesty, so don't take it too seriously.




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