What's the deal with Harvard students?

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:17 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
nerd1 wrote: I mean, all else equal, why wouldn't you adopt this approach if you were Martin Lipton? It's harder to maintain the same grades at HLS than at CLS, ... because of ... 1L curriculum (e.g. at CLS, you only take three finals in December. At HLS you take four.)

This just happened


we all knew it was going there. the troll train has arrived

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downbeat14
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby downbeat14 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:18 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
nerd1 wrote: I mean, all else equal, why wouldn't you adopt this approach if you were Martin Lipton? It's harder to maintain the same grades at HLS than at CLS, ... because of ... 1L curriculum (e.g. at CLS, you only take three finals in December. At HLS you take four.)

This just happened


we all knew it was going there. the troll train has arrived


If so, bravo. I always fall for this shit tho :|

abl
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby abl » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:21 pm

downbeat14 wrote:It's official everyone:

abl will convince themselves of literally anything to help them sleep at night because they literally are a debt slave to the government and can't own up and admit like other posters on here who will tell you it was a mistake. Keep drinking the koolaid buddy...

Lol @ people a few pages back saying that I'm taking a full ride "off the backs of" other people who didn't do as well. That's just fucking hilarious. Let's just re-distribute everything so it's all just equal. Because you know, life is totally fair and all. Everyone just gets the same everything despite the effort they may have done or the challenges they may have faced. Hilarious.

And abl, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the fact that the average person paying sticker debt at Harvard is making a really stupid decision. Whatever... I understand from your perspective this is what you have to think in order not to hate yourself for taking on all that debt.

But seriously, you really shouldn't say "oh it's very unlikely that you are going to be able to put away that kind of money" after I already told you I'm very frugal. This is for your own good an reputation on here (I'm wondering if you might be an epic troll, which if so bravo).

Shit I save more than that 1750 or whatever per month into my fund for my living expense contribution for next year (I've saved $20K over the last 5 months), and I make less than half of what I'll make as a 1st year associate. Just so you know, between my SO and my projected 1st year income, we will pulling in 11K after taxes. I think I'll manage putting away around 14% (?) of that into a mutual fund each month.

You really just look like an idiot for making unwarranted assumptions about something you have no idea about like some stranger on the internet's personal life and self-control with spending habits. I'm sorry that you wouldn't be able to control your own spending habits in my situation, but don't project your own stupidity onto my decisions, it's really silly looking to other people when you do that. Not that I'm personally offended (seriously idgaf), but you just look dumb doing that and it takes a lot of credibility from everything else you are saying. I don't like seeing you unravel like this in front of everyone :lol:

If you yourself are saying that you wouldn't be able to control your spending habits and make sound and responsible financial decisions, then why should anyone on here believe you when you say that you made a good decision taking on all that debt to go to HLS?


No need to take everything so personally. I had completely forgotten about your specific situation and was responding much more generally with respect to these issues.

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jbagelboy
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:26 pm

downbeat14 wrote:It's official everyone:

abl will convince themselves of literally anything to help them sleep at night because they literally are a debt slave to the government and can't own up and admit like other posters on here who will tell you it was a mistake. Keep drinking the koolaid buddy...

Lol @ people a few pages back saying that I'm taking a full ride "off the backs of" other people who didn't do as well. That's just fucking hilarious. Let's just re-distribute everything so it's all just equal. Because you know, life is totally fair and all. Everyone just gets the same everything despite the effort they may have done or the challenges they may have faced. Hilarious.

And abl, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the fact that the average person paying sticker debt at Harvard is making a really stupid decision. Whatever... I understand from your perspective this is what you have to think in order not to hate yourself for taking on all that debt.

But seriously, you really shouldn't say "oh it's very unlikely that you are going to be able to put away that kind of money" after I already told you I'm very frugal. This is for your own good an reputation on here (I'm wondering if you might be an epic troll, which if so bravo).

Shit I save more than that 1750 or whatever per month into my fund for my living expense contribution for next year (I've saved $20K over the last 5 months), and I make less than half of what I'll make as a 1st year associate. Just so you know, between my SO and my projected 1st year income, we will pulling in 11K after taxes. I think I'll manage putting away around 14% (?) of that into a mutual fund each month.

You really just look like an idiot for making unwarranted assumptions about something you have no idea about like some stranger on the internet's personal life and self-control with spending habits. I'm sorry that you wouldn't be able to control your own spending habits in my situation, but don't project your own stupidity onto my decisions, it's really silly looking to other people when you do that. Not that I'm personally offended (seriously idgaf), but you just look dumb doing that and it takes a lot of credibility from everything else you are saying. I don't like seeing you unravel like this in front of everyone :lol:

If you yourself are saying that you wouldn't be able to control your spending habits and make sound and responsible financial decisions, then why should anyone on here believe you when you say that you made a good decision taking on all that debt to go to HLS?


I don't think this is entirely fair to abl, whose contributions to this thread have provided a nice dialectic, but as I've said before he or she does seem to be drawing too heavily on his or her own experience (at a different program than HLS), which contrasts from my own in meaningful ways.

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downbeat14
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby downbeat14 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:29 pm

abl wrote:
No need to take everything so personally. I had completely forgotten about your specific situation and was responding much more generally with respect to these issues.


Like I said, there actually isn't less of a shit that I could give, seriously.

But you did say this after my last post:

"I'm not sure how feasible it is to do biglaw and not touch $1,750/m comfortably when the alternative is having that as disposable income. Debt is its own weird form of forced savings."

I'm saying you are dumb for making an assumption (which you were doing in the context of my post right before). You absolutely knew nothing about my situation, and now you just look silly.

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yomisterd
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby yomisterd » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:30 pm

can we all just calm down and watch Harvard get trounced by UNC

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downbeat14
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby downbeat14 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:32 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
I don't think this is entirely fair to abl, whose contributions to this thread have provided a nice dialectic, but as I've said before he or she does seem to be drawing too heavily on his or her own experience (at a different program than HLS), which contrasts from my own in meaningful ways.


Fair enough. Might have not read very carefully through the last few pages. Oops

Not going to feed the troll anymore.

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rpupkin
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:32 pm

downbeat14 wrote:
abl wrote:
No need to take everything so personally. I had completely forgotten about your specific situation and was responding much more generally with respect to these issues.


Like I said, there actually isn't less of a shit that I could give, seriously.

For someone who doesn't give a shit, you sure wrote a lot of words. And you sure seem angry. Dial it back, bro.

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downbeat14
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby downbeat14 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:34 pm

rpupkin wrote:
downbeat14 wrote:
abl wrote:
No need to take everything so personally. I had completely forgotten about your specific situation and was responding much more generally with respect to these issues.


Like I said, there actually isn't less of a shit that I could give, seriously.

For someone who doesn't give a shit, you sure wrote a lot of words. And you sure seem angry. Dial it back, bro.


I ain't mad. Just thought it was really dumb.

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LSATneurotic
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby LSATneurotic » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:40 pm

I want to change sides cause downbeat is an idiot. I officially believe that YHS is totally justifiable, $300,000 is a bargain because YOLO, plus it will "pay off in the end " plus it "opens doors "

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby wsag826 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:48 pm

I'm only now joining in on this so don't chide me in case I repeat someone else's argument. I know I am going to be chided for this endlessly but it's really how I feel so here goes...

You're in your twenties, you're either coming directly out of UG or you've had an OK (but not optimal) job for the last two years. Your parents are not college graduates and do well enough to lock you out of serious need financial aid but are constantly trying to make ends meet. Nobody in your family has gone to college. Maybe one of your uncles has but you don't really know him so it's irrelevant, but nobody else in your family has gone to college. Certainly nobody has gone to law school. You've gone to undergrad and you have excelled, but you've noticed that your classmates frequently have an advantage because of familial connections and institutional knowledge (AKA their parents went to the school or similar schools or are in similar fields so they can inform their kids what's necessary to get a good job).

You get into Harvard at sticker or with something like $10-15K of aid. You get into NU or Cornell with $70K of aid. And then you choose Harvard. Pretty much the rest of the world is debt averse and chides you for your decision, but you ultimately don't care, because it's Harvard--something nobody in your world has ever even come close to touching before--and you make your loan payments grudgingly until the age of 45. You don't end up a millionaire and you end up in the upper middle class as your career progresses. You have an excellent job. Perhaps you could've taken more trips or made less sacrifices if you didn't incur so much debt, but at least you're in a much better place and in a much more financially secure place than your parents were, given that they didn't go to college, had good jobs but poured most of their salaries into mortgages or other things, etc. Is this really a bad thing? In the grand scheme of things...

Sometimes I think TLSers are overly debt averse. I strongly doubt that the vast, vast majority of people who go to HLS--at sticker--are seeing their wages garnished because they're having a hard time paying off their loans. Yes, they may have to make sacrifices, but they're no greater than the sacrifices their parents have had to make. So they pay the $ and get on with their lives. It is worth the risk for them. Is it REALLY that bad???
Last edited by wsag826 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rpupkin
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Mar 19, 2015 7:53 pm

wsag826 wrote:I'm only now joining in on this so don't chide me in case I repeat someone else's argument. I know I am going to be chided for this endlessly but it's really how I feel so here goes...

You're in your twenties, you're either coming directly out of UG or you've had an OK (but not optimal) job for the last two years. Your parents are not college graduates and do well enough to lock you out of serious need financial aid but are constantly trying to make ends meet. Nobody in your family has gone to college. Maybe one of your uncles has but you don't really know him so it's irrelevant, but nobody else in your family has gone to college. Certainly nobody has gone to law school. You've gone to undergrad and you have excelled, but you've noticed that your classmates frequently have an advantage because of familial connections and institutional knowledge (AKA their parents went to the school or similar schools or are in similar fields so they can inform you what's necessary to get a good job).

You get into Harvard at sticker or with something like $10-15K of aid. You get into NU or Cornell with $70K of aid. And then you choose Harvard. Pretty much the rest of the world is debt averse and chides you for your decision, but you ultimately don't care, because it's Harvard--something nobody in your world has ever even come close to touching before--and you make your loan payments grudgingly until the age of 45. You don't end up a millionaire and you end up in the upper middle class as your career progresses. You have an excellent job. Perhaps you could've taken more trips or made less sacrifices if you didn't incur so much debt, but at least you're in a much better place and in a much more financially secure place than your parents were, given that they didn't go to college, had good jobs but poured most of their salaries into mortgages or other things, etc. Is this really a bad thing? In the grand scheme of things...

Sometimes I think TLSers are overly debt averse. I strongly doubt that the vast, vast majority of people who go to HLS--at sticker--are not seeing their wages garnished by their inability to pay off their loans. Yes, they may have to make sacrifices, but they're no greater than the sacrifices their parents have had to make. So they pay the $ and get on with their lives. It is worth the risk for them. Is it REALLY that bad???

Thanks for tying this thread together. It had gone off the rails and needed a fresh perspective.

Also, why hasn't DaRascal contributed? This thread's tone and subject matter seem well-suited to his talents.

03282016
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 03282016 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:21 pm

LSATneurotic wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:why is this thread still alive. it sucks.

I love it! I think it's an important discussion that will inform the decisions of 0Ls for generations to come.

QED.

03282016
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 03282016 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:22 pm

It seems like a lot of the arguments in this thread are just the derailed versions of those in the HYS Sticker / Ruby thread. Am I missing anything?

Mal Reynolds
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:14 pm

Wahrheit wrote:It seems like a lot of the arguments in this thread are just the derailed versions of those in the HYS Sticker / Ruby thread. Am I missing anything?


No one is gonna tell you ED UChicago was a good idea.

03282016
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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby 03282016 » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:32 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
Wahrheit wrote:It seems like a lot of the arguments in this thread are just the derailed versions of those in the HYS Sticker / Ruby thread. Am I missing anything?


No one is gonna tell you ED UChicago was a good idea.


No, see, I was asking if there were any new points being made.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:52 pm

wsag826 wrote:I'm only now joining in on this so don't chide me in case I repeat someone else's argument. I know I am going to be chided for this endlessly but it's really how I feel so here goes...

You're in your twenties, you're either coming directly out of UG or you've had an OK (but not optimal) job for the last two years. Your parents are not college graduates and do well enough to lock you out of serious need financial aid but are constantly trying to make ends meet. Nobody in your family has gone to college. Maybe one of your uncles has but you don't really know him so it's irrelevant, but nobody else in your family has gone to college. Certainly nobody has gone to law school. You've gone to undergrad and you have excelled, but you've noticed that your classmates frequently have an advantage because of familial connections and institutional knowledge (AKA their parents went to the school or similar schools or are in similar fields so they can inform their kids what's necessary to get a good job).

You get into Harvard at sticker or with something like $10-15K of aid. You get into NU or Cornell with $70K of aid. And then you choose Harvard. Pretty much the rest of the world is debt averse and chides you for your decision, but you ultimately don't care, because it's Harvard--something nobody in your world has ever even come close to touching before--and you make your loan payments grudgingly until the age of 45. You don't end up a millionaire and you end up in the upper middle class as your career progresses. You have an excellent job. Perhaps you could've taken more trips or made less sacrifices if you didn't incur so much debt, but at least you're in a much better place and in a much more financially secure place than your parents were, given that they didn't go to college, had good jobs but poured most of their salaries into mortgages or other things, etc. Is this really a bad thing? In the grand scheme of things...

Sometimes I think TLSers are overly debt averse. I strongly doubt that the vast, vast majority of people who go to HLS--at sticker--are seeing their wages garnished because they're having a hard time paying off their loans. Yes, they may have to make sacrifices, but they're no greater than the sacrifices their parents have had to make. So they pay the $ and get on with their lives. It is worth the risk for them. Is it REALLY that bad???


This is an okay POV from someone who hasn't practiced law.

Here's the more likely scenario: Person grew up poor/uneducated around other poor/uneducated people. Gets into Harvard for near sticker and thinks it's a great idea because he is naive and has no guidance from educated/rich people. Thinks that getting a degree is the "key to success" (another Boomer-spread lie). Takes out what ends up being 300k loans to go to Harvard. Feels good about himself. Maybe even does a clerkship. Then goes to a firm like most people from Harvard do and realizes it sucks. Wants to quit the practice of law, except wait he still has 300k loans. Starts to reevaluate life and thinks "life is too short to practice at a firm or maybe even practice law." When he's working 60+ hour weeks, constantly thinking about what to do next and thinking he made a huge mistake paying 300k for a law degree. Starts looking at other jobs by second year but then realizes he isn't qualified to do anything or has to take a severe paycut (to under 100k, maybe 60k in a big city) to work 50+ hours a week (because even public interest attorneys work longer than 40 hour weeks). Decides to suck it up and stay in biglaw. By the end of year 5 or 6 finally pays off loans. Now wants to leave the practice of law but realizes he is too old or has a family to start over. Leaves for inhouse making only 200k in NYC so he can't even afford to buy a condo. Rents for life, living a mediocre life working 50-55+ hours a week, with little spare income given his family. And inhouse in flyover makes less, but forces him to do stressful, boring work 50+ hours a week anyway to support a mediocre living with his stay at home wife and 2 kids.

So yes he might be "better off" than his poor/uneducated parents, but not better off than he would have been with no debt. Then he could have moved out of biglaw earlier and maybe even the practice of law to do a career that doesn't require 80% of your time and oftentimes sucks the soul out of you. Because if you work in law you better be prepared to sacrifice almost everything of your life.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:09 pm

Also, fwiw, I know/grew up with/socialize with a ton of rich people, and they for the most part all went to state undergrads (and not grad school). Funny enough, none of the ones who made money on their own are lawyers. Your degree matters very little in the long run, and money buys you freedom and the ability to do whatever you want in the short and long run. Plus, the practice of law is stressful, requires a lot of hours and I bet a ton of people would quit ASAP if they weren't tied down to loans.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby UnicornHunter » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:15 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:
wsag826 wrote:I'm only now joining in on this so don't chide me in case I repeat someone else's argument. I know I am going to be chided for this endlessly but it's really how I feel so here goes...

You're in your twenties, you're either coming directly out of UG or you've had an OK (but not optimal) job for the last two years. Your parents are not college graduates and do well enough to lock you out of serious need financial aid but are constantly trying to make ends meet. Nobody in your family has gone to college. Maybe one of your uncles has but you don't really know him so it's irrelevant, but nobody else in your family has gone to college. Certainly nobody has gone to law school. You've gone to undergrad and you have excelled, but you've noticed that your classmates frequently have an advantage because of familial connections and institutional knowledge (AKA their parents went to the school or similar schools or are in similar fields so they can inform their kids what's necessary to get a good job).

You get into Harvard at sticker or with something like $10-15K of aid. You get into NU or Cornell with $70K of aid. And then you choose Harvard. Pretty much the rest of the world is debt averse and chides you for your decision, but you ultimately don't care, because it's Harvard--something nobody in your world has ever even come close to touching before--and you make your loan payments grudgingly until the age of 45. You don't end up a millionaire and you end up in the upper middle class as your career progresses. You have an excellent job. Perhaps you could've taken more trips or made less sacrifices if you didn't incur so much debt, but at least you're in a much better place and in a much more financially secure place than your parents were, given that they didn't go to college, had good jobs but poured most of their salaries into mortgages or other things, etc. Is this really a bad thing? In the grand scheme of things...

Sometimes I think TLSers are overly debt averse. I strongly doubt that the vast, vast majority of people who go to HLS--at sticker--are seeing their wages garnished because they're having a hard time paying off their loans. Yes, they may have to make sacrifices, but they're no greater than the sacrifices their parents have had to make. So they pay the $ and get on with their lives. It is worth the risk for them. Is it REALLY that bad???


This is an okay POV from someone who hasn't practiced law.

Here's the more likely scenario: Person grew up poor/uneducated around other poor/uneducated people. Gets into Harvard for near sticker and thinks it's a great idea because he is naive and has no guidance from educated/rich people. Thinks that getting a degree is the "key to success" (another Boomer-spread lie). Takes out what ends up being 300k loans to go to Harvard. Feels good about himself. Maybe even does a clerkship. Then goes to a firm like most people from Harvard do and realizes it sucks. Wants to quit the practice of law, except wait he still has 300k loans. Starts to reevaluate life and thinks "life is too short to practice at a firm or maybe even practice law." When he's working 60+ hour weeks, constantly thinking about what to do next and thinking he made a huge mistake paying 300k for a law degree. Starts looking at other jobs by second year but then realizes he isn't qualified to do anything or has to take a severe paycut (to under 100k, maybe 60k in a big city) to work 50+ hours a week (because even public interest attorneys work longer than 40 hour weeks). Decides to suck it up and stay in biglaw. By the end of year 5 or 6 finally pays off loans. Now wants to leave the practice of law but realizes he is too old or has a family to start over. Leaves for inhouse making only 200k in NYC so he can't even afford to buy a condo. Rents for life, living a mediocre life working 50-55+ hours a week, with little spare income given his family. And inhouse in flyover makes less, but forces him to do stressful, boring work 50+ hours a week anyway to support a mediocre living with his stay at home wife and 2 kids.

So yes he might be "better off" than his poor/uneducated parents, but not better off than he would have been with no debt. Then he could have moved out of biglaw earlier and maybe even the practice of law to do a career that doesn't require 80% of your time and oftentimes sucks the soul out of you. Because if you work in law you better be prepared to sacrifice almost everything of your life.


This post should be the TLS homepage.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby Hikikomorist » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:19 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:abl's silence makes me think it might actually be blowjob inspector

Bill Clinton graduated from YLS and basically got such a position. Would his outcome had been the same out of CLS? Doubtful.


But his weren't even major league in quality.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:26 pm

why are we assuming applicants debating between harvard and a full ride at ccn are ignorant first-generation college attendees who still somehow don't qualify for any need based aid? this must be like five people in total per year. structurally it's far more likely that those applying to and gaining admission to prestigious graduate programs at columbia's and harvard's are from well educated and at least upper middle class families.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:32 pm

jbagelboy wrote:why are we assuming applicants debating between harvard and a full ride at ccn are ignorant first-generation college attendees who still somehow don't qualify for any need based aid? this must be like five people in total per year. structurally it's far more likely that those applying to and gaining admission to prestigious graduate programs at columbia's and harvard's are from well educated and at least upper middle class families.


Because the question of Harvard at sticker v. other schools with scholarships only really comes up if you're taking out loans. And if you're "upper middle class" why the hell isn't your family paying? Unless by upper middle class you actually mean middle middle class.

There also isn't a ton of need based aid for professional schools.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:43 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:why are we assuming applicants debating between harvard and a full ride at ccn are ignorant first-generation college attendees who still somehow don't qualify for any need based aid? this must be like five people in total per year. structurally it's far more likely that those applying to and gaining admission to prestigious graduate programs at columbia's and harvard's are from well educated and at least upper middle class families.


Because the question of Harvard at sticker v. other schools with scholarships only really comes up if you're taking out loans. And if you're "upper middle class" why the hell isn't your family paying? Unless by upper middle class you actually mean middle middle class.

There also isn't a ton of need based aid for professional schools.


Not to personalize, but my parents are upper middle class by any reasonable estimation and they didn't give me a dime for law school. Nor should they. They couldn't have afforded full freight at a private law school even if they wanted to (unless your definition of 'upper middle class' is 'multi-millionaire', which I admit is open to interpretation). They paid for me to go to whatever college I wanted, I graduated and worked, and why should they be responsible for my choice to go to graduate school now? I'm an adult, I'll make an adult decision. People who depend too heavily on their parents post-25 just contribute to the image and reality of our generation as overly coddled IMO.

Moreover, I disagree it's just a question of loans. If your parents would be shoving half their after-tax salary towards private law school tuition to prevent you from taking out loans, delaying retirement/re-mortgaging their home, ect., then that's just as bad.
Last edited by jbagelboy on Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby eriedoctrine » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:44 pm

Harvard is overrated.

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Re: What's the deal with Harvard students?

Postby BiglawAssociate » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:58 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:why are we assuming applicants debating between harvard and a full ride at ccn are ignorant first-generation college attendees who still somehow don't qualify for any need based aid? this must be like five people in total per year. structurally it's far more likely that those applying to and gaining admission to prestigious graduate programs at columbia's and harvard's are from well educated and at least upper middle class families.


Because the question of Harvard at sticker v. other schools with scholarships only really comes up if you're taking out loans. And if you're "upper middle class" why the hell isn't your family paying? Unless by upper middle class you actually mean middle middle class.

There also isn't a ton of need based aid for professional schools.


Not to personalize, but my parents are upper middle class by any reasonable estimation and they didn't give me a dime for law school. Nor should they. They couldn't have afforded full freight at a private law school even if they wanted to (unless your definition of 'upper middle class' is 'multi-millionaire', which I admit is open to interpretation). They paid for me to go to whatever college I wanted, I graduated and worked, and why should they be responsible for my choice to go to graduate school now? I'm an adult, I'll make an adult decision. People who depend too heavily on their parents post-25 just contribute to the image and reality of our generation as overly coddled IMO.

Moreover, I disagree it's just a question of loans. If your parents would be shoving half their after-tax salary towards private law school tuition to prevent you from taking out loans, delaying retirement/re-mortgaging their home, ect., then that's just as bad.


I think your definition of upper middle class is different from mine.

Fwiw, half my friends in law school (not HYS) had multi millionaire parents and didn't have loans. One of my friend's parents have 50 million; the other 10 million, etc. People with 10 million+ seem relatively common to me in my social circle.

I'd say upper middle class is 2-3 million in the bank if you live in a low cost of living place, and 10 million if you live in a place like New York City.
Last edited by BiglawAssociate on Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:03 am, edited 2 times in total.




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