Harvard$ vs. Michigan$$

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What would you pick?

Michigan (40k/yr)
16
23%
Harvard (19k/yr)
53
77%
 
Total votes: 69

Lawyerrr
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:58 pm

Re: Harvard$ vs. Michigan$$

Postby Lawyerrr » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:41 am

BiglawAssociate wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm all about the debt reduction, but I'm actually comfortable with both Harvard and Michigan at these prices. If you don't think $20k/year at Harvard or $40k/year at a lower T14 are fair investments, you're basically saying no one should be in law school.


It's only a "fair investment" if you know you will enjoy practicing and you will do it for the long term; these will not be true for most people.

The best thing I got out of pursuing law was meeting my spouse (not going to lie). My coworkers and I discuss on a daily basis about what we should do next with our lives or what kind of careers we could have had besides law (we weren't liberal arts majors so we did have jobs or could have had jobs).

And I think half of us will take the plunge to get out of law in the next few years - the work is boring; the hours are terrible; and the pay is not great in comparison to business/finance. Plus, there are a lot of d-bags in biglaw.

You probably don't get what I mean because you're still in law school. I loved law school - it was easy. I graduated magna from a T-14 and barely did any work. Biglaw is awful and there are days/weeks where I literally question my existence and meaning of life. I'm not alone - most of us do. And frankly, we're only here for the supposed good pay. When you realize the pay is crap in comparison to other stuff you could be doing, and that the road only gets worse with more responsibility, why continue doing it? Plus, there's also no middle ground in law. Even public interest attorneys work longer than 40 hour work weeks, except for crap pay.

Frankly, even if you "win" in law school, you likely still lose.


I think you should pick Harvard unless another top school gives you a full ride. Also want to throw out there that not everyone hates working for a big law firm! I'm sure BiglawAssociate has his reasons, but I really like it.

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BiglawAssociate
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:05 am

Re: Harvard$ vs. Michigan$$

Postby BiglawAssociate » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:18 pm

Lawyerrr wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm all about the debt reduction, but I'm actually comfortable with both Harvard and Michigan at these prices. If you don't think $20k/year at Harvard or $40k/year at a lower T14 are fair investments, you're basically saying no one should be in law school.


It's only a "fair investment" if you know you will enjoy practicing and you will do it for the long term; these will not be true for most people.

My coworkers and I discuss on a daily basis about what we should do next with our lives or what kind of careers we could have had besides law (we weren't liberal arts majors so we did have jobs or could have had jobs).

And I think half of us will take the plunge to get out of law in the next few years - the work is boring; the hours are terrible; and the pay is not great in comparison to business/finance. Plus, there are a lot of d-bags in biglaw.

You probably don't get what I mean because you're still in law school. I loved law school - it was easy. I graduated magna from a T-14 and barely did any work. Biglaw is awful and there are days/weeks where I literally question my existence and meaning of life. I'm not alone - most of us do. And frankly, we're only here for the supposed good pay. When you realize the pay is crap in comparison to other stuff you could be doing, and that the road only gets worse with more responsibility, why continue doing it? Plus, there's also no middle ground in law. Even public interest attorneys work longer than 40 hour work weeks, except for crap pay.

Frankly, even if you "win" in law school, you likely still lose.


I think you should pick Harvard unless another top school gives you a full ride. Also want to throw out there that not everyone hates working for a big law firm! I'm sure BiglawAssociate has his reasons, but I really like it.


What year are you? How many hours are you on target to bill this year?

Either you're a noob and/or don't have much work and/or you're so poor you feel golden handcuffed and are deluding yourself to think it's great. Even partners have complained to me about working at a biglaw firm (not even kidding) and said that they would quit ASAP if they won the lottery.
Last edited by BiglawAssociate on Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lawyerrr
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:58 pm

Re: Harvard$ vs. Michigan$$

Postby Lawyerrr » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:39 pm

BiglawAssociate wrote:
Lawyerrr wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I'm all about the debt reduction, but I'm actually comfortable with both Harvard and Michigan at these prices. If you don't think $20k/year at Harvard or $40k/year at a lower T14 are fair investments, you're basically saying no one should be in law school.


It's only a "fair investment" if you know you will enjoy practicing and you will do it for the long term; these will not be true for most people.

The best thing I got out of pursuing law was meeting my spouse (not going to lie). My coworkers and I discuss on a daily basis about what we should do next with our lives or what kind of careers we could have had besides law (we weren't liberal arts majors so we did have jobs or could have had jobs).

And I think half of us will take the plunge to get out of law in the next few years - the work is boring; the hours are terrible; and the pay is not great in comparison to business/finance. Plus, there are a lot of d-bags in biglaw.

You probably don't get what I mean because you're still in law school. I loved law school - it was easy. I graduated magna from a T-14 and barely did any work. Biglaw is awful and there are days/weeks where I literally question my existence and meaning of life. I'm not alone - most of us do. And frankly, we're only here for the supposed good pay. When you realize the pay is crap in comparison to other stuff you could be doing, and that the road only gets worse with more responsibility, why continue doing it? Plus, there's also no middle ground in law. Even public interest attorneys work longer than 40 hour work weeks, except for crap pay.

Frankly, even if you "win" in law school, you likely still lose.


I think you should pick Harvard unless another top school gives you a full ride. Also want to throw out there that not everyone hates working for a big law firm! I'm sure BiglawAssociate has his reasons, but I really like it.


What year are you? How many hours are you on target to bill this year?

Either you're a noob and/or don't have much work and/or you're so poor you feel golden handcuffed and are deluding yourself to think it's great. Even partners have complained to me about working at a biglaw firm (not even kidding) and said that they would quit ASAP if they won the lottery.


3rd. Prob like 2300 but that can change (up or down) since I'm in corporate. Don't get me wrong. There are times when the hours are very frustrating, especially when you have to cancel plans. But I really don't mind getting up in the morning and going to work.

User avatar
BiglawAssociate
Posts: 355
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:05 am

Re: Harvard$ vs. Michigan$$

Postby BiglawAssociate » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:02 pm

Lawyerrr wrote:3rd. Prob like 2300 but that can change (up or down) since I'm in corporate. Don't get me wrong. There are times when the hours are very frustrating, especially when you have to cancel plans. But I really don't mind getting up in the morning and going to work.


Odd, if you're billing a legit 2300 without padding, you likely don't have much of a life outside of work.

There are a few people like that (a minority) who enjoy biglaw when they're actually billing, but that's like 2% of people. Most of these people in my experience are generally (i) completely work obsessed and have no social life/family, (ii) prestige obsessed (think working biglaw is "uber duber prestigious" lol), and (iii) need the money/sort of broke to middle class/have a family to support and is the sole breadwinner.

If you're not at least two of these, you likely wouldn't stay in biglaw past 2-3 years or so.

If you're a trust fund kid/don't have loans (surprisingly, there are trust fund kids in biglaw - some of my friends' families have 50 million dollars) you def wouldn't stay past a couple of years, maybe even a year.

I'm not lying when I say a quarter to a third of my firm who has left the firm has left law entirely - often to do nothing for awhile.




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