Top Law Schools

dolphinsareevil wrote:Is Santa Clara Worth it for IP Law?

no.

I have option between GW and Santa Clara. I have BS/BSE/MS in computer science/computer engineering. I am still between two schools to finalize. What do you guys recommend? is GW worth it for IP? Does it make sense move all the way to DC for IP?

siddhishah wrote:I have option between GW and Santa Clara. I have BS/BSE/MS in computer science/computer engineering. I am still between two schools to finalize. What do you guys recommend? is GW worth it for IP? Does it make sense move all the way to DC for IP?

Would you be paying full tuition? If so, it's not worth it.

Yes I will be paying full tuition at either schools.

siddhishah wrote:Yes I will be paying full tuition at either schools.

Don't go to either at full tuition. But that's kinda weird you didn't get some kind of scholarship from Santa Clara if you got into GW.

Should I send mail to Santa clara admissions that I would consider it if they considered me for scholarship? Also if money is not issue, will I regret it if I go to santa clara instead of GW since GW has overall better ranking?

Santa Clara said no scholarship. Only place i have scholarship is from Arizona State University but the IP program sucks there. So, either I will go with Santa Clara or GW. I never lived in East coast before but I am thinking I may have better future if I went to GW instead of Santa Clara. Any suggestions?

siddhishah wrote:Santa Clara said no scholarship. Only place i have scholarship is from Arizona State University but the IP program sucks there. So, either I will go with Santa Clara or GW. I never lived in East coast before but I am thinking I may have better future if I went to GW instead of Santa Clara. Any suggestions?

this isn't really a thing anywhere. why did you apply to such a weird mix of schools? where do you want to work/live? how many times have you taken the lsat?

I live in Arizona. I have BSE/MS in Computer Engineering/Computer science, so I applied to few top IP schools. ASU is convenient but their IP program sucks plus the location. Either I have to be in Silicon valley or DC to get better job. Since I am interested in doing part time school, GW and Santa Clara seemed two good options for me. GW certainly has better ranking overall than Santa Clara but still confused if GW is really worth moving al the way to DC. I took LSAT once, my score 154 but my GPA is 3.9.

chimp wrote:

siddhishah wrote:Santa Clara said no scholarship. Only place i have scholarship is from Arizona State University but the IP program sucks there. So, either I will go with Santa Clara or GW. I never lived in East coast before but I am thinking I may have better future if I went to GW instead of Santa Clara. Any suggestions?

this isn't really a thing anywhere. why did you apply to such a weird mix of schools? where do you want to work/live? how many times have you taken the lsat?

Well, it is kind of a thing at GW. For someone who wants to do patent prosecution when someone else--either the school or an employer--is paying all or most of the bill, schools like GW (and even Santa Clara) can make sense. But if you've got to pay sticker, these schools are not good options.

siddhishah wrote:I live in Arizona. I have BSE/MS in Computer Engineering/Computer science, so I applied to few top IP schools. ASU is convenient but their IP program sucks plus the location. Either I have to be in Silicon valley or DC to get better job. Since I am interested in doing part time school, GW and Santa Clara seemed two good options for me. GW certainly has better ranking overall than Santa Clara but still confused if GW is really worth moving al the way to DC. I took LSAT once, my score 154 but my GPA is 3.9.

You're about to see 30 posts telling you to retake the LSAT. And all 30 posts will be right.

siddhishah wrote:I live in Arizona. I have BSE/MS in Computer Engineering/Computer science, so I applied to few top IP schools. ASU is convenient but their IP program sucks plus the location. Either I have to be in Silicon valley or DC to get better job. Since I am interested in doing part time school, GW and Santa Clara seemed two good options for me. GW certainly has better ranking overall than Santa Clara but still confused if GW is really worth moving al the way to DC. I took LSAT once, my score 154 but my GPA is 3.9.

I recommend retaking the lsat and reapplying. your gpa is too good to waste. also, when applying, apply to the best schools that you have a reasonable chance of being admitted to and don't worry about a school's "IP program"

But going to Arizona State also doesnt make sense. correct? I have friends who tell me that lot of law firms hire you as agent and pay for the school after first year. I am taking the patent bar in July - hopefully I pass.

I worked as engineer for 6 years, already in my late 20s. I dont think I can afford to waste one year to re-take the LSAT. How does it matter though? No law firm is going to ask you if I got scholarship or not. Correct? Its just the price I have to pay while I am in school.

siddhishah wrote:I worked as engineer for 6 years, already in my late 20s. I dont think I can afford to waste one year to re-take the LSAT. How does it matter though? No law firm is going to ask you if I got scholarship or not. Correct? Its just the price I have to pay while I am in school.

People aren't telling you retake for a scholarship. Instead, they're telling you to retake because you can get into T14 with more scholarships than GW/Santa Clara.

Considering I do want to get into the school with good IP program and location, Stanford and Berkeley are my best options if I retook the LSAT and got at least 10 points higher. Are my chances pretty slim if I applied to say Berkeley as transfer student from GW or Santa Clara?

siddhishah wrote:Considering I do want to get into the school with good IP program and location, Stanford and Berkeley are my best options if I retook the LSAT and got at least 10 points higher. Are my chances pretty slim if I applied to say Berkeley as transfer student from GW or Santa Clara?

If you consider a less than one percent chance to be "pretty slim," then yes.

Wow..To be honest, I don't think my score will improve much if I re took the lsat because English is my second language. I already get perfect in LG but RC/LR, there is no way I can get through all questions in 35 mins. Reading, comprehend and vocabulary are not something you can improve in short time. In a way I think it's better I don't go to t14 school because they will be lot more competitive and I may end up getting Bs and Cs during the law school.

siddhishah wrote:Wow..To be honest, I don't think my score will improve much if I re took the lsat because English is my second language. I already get perfect in LG but RC/LR, there is no way I can get through all questions in 35 mins. Reading, comprehend and vocabulary are not something you can improve in short time. In a way I think it's better I don't go to t14 school because they will be lot more competitive and I may end up getting Bs and Cs during the law school.

my STEM classmates who got 1L SAs before grades even came out would disagree

siddhishah wrote:Wow..To be honest, I don't think my score will improve much if I re took the lsat because English is my second language. I already get perfect in LG but RC/LR, there is no way I can get through all questions in 35 mins. Reading, comprehend and vocabulary are not something you can improve in short time. In a way I think it's better I don't go to t14 school because they will be lot more competitive and I may end up getting Bs and Cs during the law school.

I think you can probably improve your score quite a bit more than you believe, especially in logical reasoning. Consider taking other efforts to expand your vocabulary, comprehension, and reading speed outside of the lsat in addition to the usual practice tests--leisure activities like reading a novel could be helpful.

That said, law school outcomes are hugely grade-dependent, especially at low-ranked schools. With poor language skills, your law school grades will suffer much worse than your lsat grades. This is because law school exams are almost exclusively long essay questions, and your composition skills will mean the difference between an A- and a B+.

The good news is that you actually have the background that IP employers are looking for. If you can get Santa Clara on a full ride or something like UCLA, you'll have good job options. I have no idea about IP law employers in Arizona, but I suspect there are not nearly as many as there are in California.

Late 20's is NOT that old, especially for someone with significant employment experience. Employers will view you favorably due to your age--it's not like you're 50--and most of them are only really looking to employ you for 5-10 years, anyway.

In sum:
-Location does matter, "IP program ranking" does not
-You don't need t14 to do IP, but getting into a t14 will definitely help your employment prospects
-Even with an IP background, you need to either go to a good school or do well at a mediocre school to find a job. FYI, the good schools are much more generous with their grading, despite what you seem to think. The students are also less competitive.

Also, why not just skip the bullshit and snag a programming job in the Bay Area for $80-$100k right now?

Thanks for your reply. Yeah I am making six figures in Arizona but this is not what I want to do for rest of my life. The Code I write can be pretty much outsourced to someone in India or China for 1/4th of my salary. I may not get anywhere in life being an engineer unless I am genius or start my own business.

As far as my writing skills go, I am taking legal writing course online right now and preparing myself about how to take law school essay exams. Deciding school has become really difficult for me. I have 1k deposit due on 1st June and I can't waste any more money on deposits.

In nutshell:
- I do want to start school this year - Options: GWU, Santa Clara Or ASU
- All three have part time program. Also being part time student, I won't be leaving my current job. My boss said, I can work remotely for my current job from wherever I decide to go.
- Hoping to get patent agent/tech advisor job either in DC or Bay after taking patent bar in July
- My worry is if I am not in top 20% of class, are my chances better to get good job as attorney if I am from Santa Clara or GWU?

Thanks again guys for your help,

siddhishah wrote:My worry is if I am not in top 20% of class, are my chances better to get good job as attorney if I am from Santa Clara or GWU?

Well that question is actually pretty easy to answer:



No matter what you do, don't go to SCU.

For the low price of 200k and three of the best years of your life (in your prime), you get the opportunity to compete at SCU Law for employment prospects rivaling those of average people in Kenya, Yemen, Afghanistan, Greece and Mali, all of which have higher employment rates than SCU Law grads: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... yment_rate.

Are you an idiot? If so, you'll fit right in at SCU Law.

siddhishah wrote:Thanks for your reply. Yeah I am making six figures in Arizona but this is not what I want to do for rest of my life. The Code I write can be pretty much outsourced to someone in India or China for 1/4th of my salary. I may not get anywhere in life being an engineer unless I am genius or start my own business.

As far as my writing skills go, I am taking legal writing course online right now and preparing myself about how to take law school essay exams. Deciding school has become really difficult for me. I have 1k deposit due on 1st June and I can't waste any more money on deposits.

In nutshell:
- I do want to start school this year - Options: GWU, Santa Clara Or ASU
- All three have part time program. Also being part time student, I won't be leaving my current job. My boss said, I can work remotely for my current job from wherever I decide to go.
- Hoping to get patent agent/tech advisor job either in DC or Bay after taking patent bar in July
- My worry is if I am not in top 20% of class, are my chances better to get good job as attorney if I am from Santa Clara or GWU?

Thanks again guys for your help,

You know, while your background makes you competitive for one of the few "growing" areas of law (patent), I think you'd be crazy to walk away from a $100k+ salary to enter the legal field. You say that your coding could be outsourced, but the fact of the matter is that programmers are actually in demand, while lawyers are NOT and are also being outsourced/replaced in many ways. The reality is that the US does not produce enough programmers to meet the demand of employers, but produces a large excess of attorneys. Given what I know about both of these fields today, I think you would be crazy to go to law school under any circumstances.

I have a lot of friends in programming, and while they are often overworked, they have incredible job security/competitiveness, ongoing earning potential that doesn't drop off after 5-7 years, and they can often work from home and/or manage their work in a meaningful fashion. Most active, private-practice attorneys are more or less "on-call" in some manner for the majority of their career.

NorCalLaw wrote:

siddhishah wrote:Thanks for your reply. Yeah I am making six figures in Arizona but this is not what I want to do for rest of my life. The Code I write can be pretty much outsourced to someone in India or China for 1/4th of my salary. I may not get anywhere in life being an engineer unless I am genius or start my own business.

As far as my writing skills go, I am taking legal writing course online right now and preparing myself about how to take law school essay exams. Deciding school has become really difficult for me. I have 1k deposit due on 1st June and I can't waste any more money on deposits.

In nutshell:
- I do want to start school this year - Options: GWU, Santa Clara Or ASU
- All three have part time program. Also being part time student, I won't be leaving my current job. My boss said, I can work remotely for my current job from wherever I decide to go.
- Hoping to get patent agent/tech advisor job either in DC or Bay after taking patent bar in July
- My worry is if I am not in top 20% of class, are my chances better to get good job as attorney if I am from Santa Clara or GWU?

Thanks again guys for your help,

You know, while your background makes you competitive for one of the few "growing" areas of law (patent), I think you'd be crazy to walk away from a $100k+ salary to enter the legal field. You say that your coding could be outsourced, but the fact of the matter is that programmers are actually in demand, while lawyers are NOT and are also being outsourced/replaced in many ways. The reality is that the US does not produce enough programmers to meet the demand of employers, but produces a large excess of attorneys. Given what I know about both of these fields today, I think you would be crazy to go to law school under any circumstances.

I have a lot of friends in programming, and while they are often overworked, they have incredible job security/competitiveness, ongoing earning potential that doesn't drop off after 5-7 years, and they can often work from home and/or manage their work in a meaningful fashion. Most active, private-practice attorneys are more or less "on-call" in some manner for the majority of their career.

Patent law is not "growing." HTH