Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

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davidcasaletto
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Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby davidcasaletto » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:22 pm

I need some opinions please, and any relevant facts or sources you may know of.

I got a 169 cold LSAT score on my first try, and after studying 3 months using only practice tests I got a 169 on test day. Practice test averages were 172 when i took the real deal.

I was planning to retake this June and at the same time take whatever best offer i got this cycle, to study properly with the right materials, with drilling, with better methods, and try to get a 175+ retake score. I was hoping to use the retake to get into T6 with money.

MY question now is, with 135k from cornell, how much better could it get? At this point I'm considering dedicating the LSAT study time to instead self-studying a general 1L cirriculum to prepare myself to get the best grades I possibly can during 1L.

Should I use the next few months to study for the re take and re-take it? Is it worth waiting another year (I'm two years out of undergrad already, planned on going last year but waited out) just for a chance at $$ at T6? Wouldn't T6 provide me with simialr employment prospects? And with 175+ can I really expect an offer as generous as Cornell's offer this year? (135k)

I want to get in the top 10% of my class at Cornell, so studying the cirriculum now and becoming cognizant of what I'll be expected to do and know, to grapple with flaws in my techniques, and to actually learn material seems very tempting to me.

However, I think I could retake with a higher score, I didn't budge from my initial cold take! These new diagramming methods and organized techniques of attack I've been learning in the Manhattan series have the test seeming a lot more doable to me.

Please help.

GPA: 3.77 (Transfer student, 3.66 at CC, 3.85 at UofM)
LSAT: 169
Experience: Have had substantive federal defender internship

The schools you are considering
-WUSTL : Full tuition
-Vanderbilt : 90k
-USC Gould : 135k
-Fordham : 120k
-Georgetown: Havent heard yet

Waiting still to hear from NYU, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, (gotta try..) Duke.

-All finances are through Scholarship + Loans
- Want big law $$ for a few years, then want to move into public interest or government work. Would really enjoy working for federal government I think.

-How many times you have taken the LSAT: once
Last edited by davidcasaletto on Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hartfordhockaloogies
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby hartfordhockaloogies » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:29 pm

Cornell at ~90-100k for NYC big law is solid. I wouldn't "expect" to be top 10%, nor would I try to study for law school before law school begins (i.e., knowing your professor).

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby DCfilterDC » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:32 pm

That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.

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transferror
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby transferror » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:33 pm

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT


Still need the bolded info and it will make a big difference in the quality of advice for your situation. For instance, if you're debt-financing with a goal of NYC biglaw, Cornell makes a lot of sense. Other scenarios might call for a retake. Also, what other offers/acceptances, if any, are currently on the table?

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:34 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.



I'd say take June, if you get 175+ reapply, if not then stick with it

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Clemenceau
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby Clemenceau » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:35 pm

$135 is huge money for a 3.77. I doubt really anyone is getting that much from t6 with that gpa, but I could be wrong

I doubt you'll get much more money anywhere in the t14 even with a successful retake

Not sure what else you want to hear. You did well for your numbers. Could probably get some money in t6 with 3+ more lsat points

Also the self study pre-1L thing seems a little odd and not necessary

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DCfilterDC
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby DCfilterDC » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:41 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.



I'd say take June, if you get 175+ reapply, if not then stick with it


Agreed. You can deposit Cornell and take June. If you get that 175+ then withdraw. If you don't then stick to Cornell.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby lacrossebrother » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:43 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.



I'd say take June, if you get 175+ reapply, if not then stick with it


Agreed. You can deposit Cornell and take June. If you get that 175+ then withdraw. If you don't then stick to Cornell.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby zombie mcavoy » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:45 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.



I'd say take June, if you get 175+ reapply, if not then stick with it


Agreed. You can deposit Cornell and take June. If you get that 175+ then withdraw. If you don't then stick to Cornell.

This should be your plan. That's a really great scholarship for your stats; congrats.

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:48 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.



I'd say take June, if you get 175+ reapply, if not then stick with it


This feels good. I like it.

Top 10% is going to be tough and it would not surprise me if 0L prepping would actually be detrimental to your goal. I wouldn't do it.

Just read Getting to Maybe, formulate some sort of plan, and then pray to the law school gods that you're good at law school IMO.

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RareExports
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby RareExports » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:48 pm

Cornell at 135k is an amazing offer. With the same LSAT and a GPA a little lower I got waitlisted. Anyway, to answer your question, I echo what others said--deposit at Cornell and if you score substantially higher in June, withdraw.

redsoxfan1989
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby redsoxfan1989 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:56 pm

I took this exact same offer over sticker at NYU. No regrets.

Note: I am a second semester 1L.

davidcasaletto
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby davidcasaletto » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:59 pm

I understand this, but, what would a 175 and 3.77 GPA get me at T6 schoalrshipwise? If it's not going to be close to Cornell's offer, then wouldn't I be better off just going to Cornell now, banking the extra one year salary and going on my way? What is the benefit of a T6 V Cornell? Not big firm jobs? Different markets maybe?




zombie mcavoy wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:That 135k is a great outcome, and with your GPA that's somewhat surprising that you got it (good on you though!). You could retake and aim higher, but depends on how much better you'll do and if you're going to get a better financial offer next year if you do do better.

Normally I'd say it makes sense to retake, but honestly Cornell with 135k is a great outcome, and if you delay one year you make one less year of income on the back end, so you're giving up that one year on the gamble that you'll do significantly better on the LSAT (something you can't know for sure), and then on the additional gamble you'll get a better offer somewhere else or even replicate the same Cornell offer.

I'd say take Cornell now.



I'd say take June, if you get 175+ reapply, if not then stick with it


Agreed. You can deposit Cornell and take June. If you get that 175+ then withdraw. If you don't then stick to Cornell.

This should be your plan. That's a really great scholarship for your stats; congrats.

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rpupkin
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby rpupkin » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:04 pm

davidcasaletto wrote:What is the benefit of a T6 V Cornell? Not big firm jobs? Different markets maybe?

More national mobility, better big firm options within NYC, and a little more security if you struggle with law school and end up at or below median.

redsoxfan1989
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby redsoxfan1989 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:10 pm

rpupkin wrote:
davidcasaletto wrote:What is the benefit of a T6 V Cornell? Not big firm jobs? Different markets maybe?

More national mobility, better big firm options within NYC, and a little more security if you struggle with law school and end up at or below median.


This is all true, but keep in mind those benefits are slight and thus not worth paying 100k more for. If you think you can swing a 175+ and get a Ruby/Hamilton/Vanderbilt or half ride at any of those schools maybe its worth retaking. But if you want a biglaw job, your Cornell offer can do that for you without requiring you to take out absurd debt.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:32 pm

I actually don't think you should reapply even if you get a higher score assuming you want NYC biglaw. Seems like you'd just be wasting a year for no reason and your GPA likely precludes you from the biggest scholarships at slightly better placing schools.

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:38 pm

Tuition at Cornell is like a billion dollars a year. They are offering you 45K a year. You have plenty of room to get more money. Deposit, retake some stupid standardized test, and then lord your higher score over them in July and bleed those bloodsuckers for all they are worth.

Even if they only offer you like 3K more a year that will be the easiest 10K you have ever made in your life.

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runinthefront
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby runinthefront » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:41 pm

I was in a similar scholly situation with around ~65k from NYU and took Cornell. T6 is undoubtedly worth more than Cornell for pretty much every single goal one could have coming out of law school...the question is, how much? I think that's going to come down to a subjective cost-benefit analysis (in terms of how heavy of a premium you're willing to pay for "insurance") but I'm not sure needlessly going (possibly) 200k+ in debt for a T6 is worth it, especially if your goal is simply biglaw to PI/fed.

I think 'Splitter's kind of right in this case, although I do know that Cornell's been giving out 150k scholarships these last couple of years, and I think a retake in June is worth the possibility of a 15k increase (assuming a nice LSAT boost and successful negotiation with them). I don't think I would re-apply, though.


ETA: ^ what BigZuck said.

davidcasaletto
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby davidcasaletto » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:05 pm

BigZuck wrote:Tuition at Cornell is like a billion dollars a year. They are offering you 45K a year. You have plenty of room to get more money. Deposit, retake some stupid standardized test, and then lord your higher score over them in July and bleed those bloodsuckers for all they are worth.

Even if they only offer you like 3K more a year that will be the easiest 10K you have ever made in your life.


You are telling me I can take my higher June LSAT and use it to negotiate scholarship money for Fall 2015 at Cornell? Even though I'll already have deposited? Are you sure about this? If you are sure, can you tell me how you came to be sure? If this is true it is obvious to me that I should retake if only for the possibility of additional funds from Cornell. Thank you very much for your insight.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:09 pm

davidcasaletto wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Tuition at Cornell is like a billion dollars a year. They are offering you 45K a year. You have plenty of room to get more money. Deposit, retake some stupid standardized test, and then lord your higher score over them in July and bleed those bloodsuckers for all they are worth.

Even if they only offer you like 3K more a year that will be the easiest 10K you have ever made in your life.


You are telling me I can take my higher June LSAT and use it to negotiate scholarship money for Fall 2015 at Cornell? Even though I'll already have deposited? Are you sure about this? If you are sure, can you tell me how you came to be sure? If this is true it is obvious to me that I should retake if only for the possibility of additional funds from Cornell. Thank you very much for your insight.

It's definitely possible. No guarantee it works but they're not going to decrease your scholarship.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:17 pm

davidcasaletto wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Tuition at Cornell is like a billion dollars a year. They are offering you 45K a year. You have plenty of room to get more money. Deposit, retake some stupid standardized test, and then lord your higher score over them in July and bleed those bloodsuckers for all they are worth.

Even if they only offer you like 3K more a year that will be the easiest 10K you have ever made in your life.


You are telling me I can take my higher June LSAT and use it to negotiate scholarship money for Fall 2015 at Cornell? Even though I'll already have deposited? Are you sure about this? If you are sure, can you tell me how you came to be sure? If this is true it is obvious to me that I should retake if only for the possibility of additional funds from Cornell. Thank you very much for your insight.


Yep

BigZuck
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Re: Cornell with 135k vs. T6?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:20 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
davidcasaletto wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Tuition at Cornell is like a billion dollars a year. They are offering you 45K a year. You have plenty of room to get more money. Deposit, retake some stupid standardized test, and then lord your higher score over them in July and bleed those bloodsuckers for all they are worth.

Even if they only offer you like 3K more a year that will be the easiest 10K you have ever made in your life.


You are telling me I can take my higher June LSAT and use it to negotiate scholarship money for Fall 2015 at Cornell? Even though I'll already have deposited? Are you sure about this? If you are sure, can you tell me how you came to be sure? If this is true it is obvious to me that I should retake if only for the possibility of additional funds from Cornell. Thank you very much for your insight.

It's definitely possible. No guarantee it works but they're not going to decrease your scholarship.

Yeah, no guarantee but my first cycle the school I had deposited at gave me an unsolicited scholarship bump based on my June LSAT retake (they emailed me and sent a letter the day of the score release). They probably (rightly) realized I was going to withdraw and apply to other schools, I could see Cornell throwing you another 5K a year to prevent you from going to Columbia the next year. It'll be July, they have a small class, and they would be losing numbers that would help them. Maybe it won't work but there's absolutely no downside other than the cost to take the test.




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