Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

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tgreene17
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Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby tgreene17 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:26 pm

I'm struggling a bit with this decision and have been seeking advice from as many angles as possible, so I thought you all might be able to help. Here's the deal: I've been accepted into both UT and Ole Miss, with Mississippi offering me nearly a full ride. Tennessee, on the other hand, has yet to provide any scholarship, but I would get in-state tuition (roughly $18,000/year). My ultimate goal is to graduate and work in Nashville, so Tennessee obviously makes the most sense there.

My question for you all is this. In your opinion, would I be better suited to go to Ole Miss for free, essentially, and work my way back into Nashville, or attend UT with the possibility of paying sticker price?

Irrelevant, but I've also been accepted at SMU, Wake Forest, and Washington & Lee, but have no word on scholarship from these schools as of now. If you have an opinion regarding any of these schools, I'll take all the advice I can get.

Thanks!

BigZuck
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:29 pm

Wait until you have final, negotiated offers

Ole Miss doesn't really make any sense if you want to work in Tennessee and UT isn't worth it at sticker price

What kind of work so you want to do in Nashville?

tgreene17
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby tgreene17 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 4:56 pm

Ideally, I'd like to practice corporate law in the private sector. I've lived in Nashville my entire life and have good connections in the area, so if I do end up at a school out of state, that could help me, assuming I'm near the top of my class.

What do you think about U of Alabama?

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Winston1984
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby Winston1984 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:06 pm

tgreene17 wrote:Ideally, I'd like to practice corporate law in the private sector. I've lived in Nashville my entire life and have good connections in the area, so if I do end up at a school out of state, that could help me, assuming I'm near the top of my class.

What do you think about U of Alabama?

I wouldn't attend Alabama unless you wanted to practice in Alabama. UTK makes the most sense for your goals (unless you could go to Vandy for a reasonable price).

BigZuck
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:12 pm

tgreene17 wrote:Ideally, I'd like to practice corporate law in the private sector. I've lived in Nashville my entire life and have good connections in the area, so if I do end up at a school out of state, that could help me, assuming I'm near the top of my class.

What do you think about U of Alabama?

I'd find a way to go to Vandy for cheap, or at least UTK for cheap

I think Alabama is fine for Alabamans who want to work in Alabama and can go for cheap

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby zombie mcavoy » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:19 pm

nashville is a very tough nut to crack by all accounts. I wouldn't make it tougher by moving away for ls.

UTK for close to free or Vandy make the most sense. I'd retake until one of those two is a possibility.

BNA
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BNA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:17 pm

Go to Knoxville and visit with the admissions department. They're well prepared to show you why that is absolutely your best option (aside from Vandy with a huge discount). I'm in a similar position, but without the financial concerns (Alabama, UTk, FSU, etc. free on the GI Bill). I could probably retake for 5-6 points and go to Vandy for ~$17/yr, but decided to stick with UTk after my visit. Good luck.

Although I expect to catch hell for mentioning it, it's hard not to be happy about the 20 position jump in rankings this year....
Last edited by BNA on Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:18 pm

BNA wrote:Go to Knoxville and visit with the admissions department. They're well prepared to show you why that is absolutely your best option (aside from Vandy with a huge discount). I'm in a similar position, but without the financial concerns (Alabama, UTk, FSU, etc. free on the GI Bill). I could probably retake for 5-6 points and go to Vandy for ~$17/yr, but decided to stick with UTk after my visit. Good luck.

When adcoms win, we all lose

BNA
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BNA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:22 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BNA wrote:Go to Knoxville and visit with the admissions department. They're well prepared to show you why that is absolutely your best option (aside from Vandy with a huge discount). I'm in a similar position, but without the financial concerns (Alabama, UTk, FSU, etc. free on the GI Bill). I could probably retake for 5-6 points and go to Vandy for ~$17/yr, but decided to stick with UTk after my visit. Good luck.

When adcoms win, we all lose



Haha, yes, but I don't consider myself easily manipulated. A lot of thought went into that decision, and the information they offered wasn't anything I've seen on TLS, ATL, LST or otherwise.

hartfordhockaloogies
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby hartfordhockaloogies » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:25 pm

Your options suck. Go to UTenn w/ $$$$ or Vandy with $$, or lower T-14 with $. Don't look at random regionals.

Best bet, retake or don't go

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby zombie mcavoy » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:26 pm

Trust adcomms as you would trust a door-to-door salesman, OP.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby zombie mcavoy » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:27 pm

BNA wrote:Haha, yes, but I don't consider myself easily manipulated. A lot of thought went into that decision, and the information they offered wasn't anything I've seen on TLS, ATL, LST or otherwise.

... like what?

BigZuck
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:42 pm

BNA wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
BNA wrote:Go to Knoxville and visit with the admissions department. They're well prepared to show you why that is absolutely your best option (aside from Vandy with a huge discount). I'm in a similar position, but without the financial concerns (Alabama, UTk, FSU, etc. free on the GI Bill). I could probably retake for 5-6 points and go to Vandy for ~$17/yr, but decided to stick with UTk after my visit. Good luck.

When adcoms win, we all lose



Haha, yes, but I don't consider myself easily manipulated. A lot of thought went into that decision, and the information they offered wasn't anything I've seen on TLS, ATL, LST or otherwise.

I'm also curious as to what this might have been

Why is the rankings jump meaningful to you?

BNA
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BNA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:51 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:
BNA wrote:Haha, yes, but I don't consider myself easily manipulated. A lot of thought went into that decision, and the information they offered wasn't anything I've seen on TLS, ATL, LST or otherwise.

... like what?


The top half of last years class ended up with relatively positive outcomes. Is it UVA? No, but when about 50% are getting work in areas with high upside I'd say that's competitive for the price.

I think people make the mistake of only looking at the percentages of biglaw and clerkships, but disregard the statistics at the bottom. A very small portion of 2014 grads wound up unemployed or in a low paying position.

BNA
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BNA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:56 pm

Zuck, the ratings mention was almost perfunctory, but you can't deny it's extreme.

BigZuck
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:32 pm

BNA wrote:Zuck, the ratings mention was almost perfunctory, but you can't deny it's extreme.

Not sure how this is at all responsive to how or why the ranking jump matters.

Genuinely interested in what they shared with you that is not reflected on LST. If schools have info that paints things in a better picture, that's great! But they should get that out there so that we have a fair idea of what the employment picture looks like.

LST has 10% unemployed and about 60% in long term, full time legal employment 9 months out. We know that 28% made 60K+

I take it what they shared with you was a rosier picture than that? What did they share?

BNA
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BNA » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:55 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BNA wrote:Zuck, the ratings mention was almost perfunctory, but you can't deny it's extreme.

Not sure how this is at all responsive to how or why the ranking jump matters.

Genuinely interested in what they shared with you that is not reflected on LST. If schools have info that paints things in a better picture, that's great! But they should get that out there so that we have a fair idea of what the employment picture looks like.

LST has 10% unemployed and about 60% in long term, full time legal employment 9 months out. We know that 28% made 60K+

I take it what they shared with you was a rosier picture than that? What did they share?


We all know the rankings don't (shouldn't) matter to us, but I believe they do to the general population. My comment wasn't meant to embolden UT, just a superficial positive remark. I'll probably out myself here, but UT made their case by showing a consistency in hiring that survived the last 7 years, and great placement for many if not most of the people who didn't qualify for JD required, long term. I personally know people who carried a UTk JD into business and are doing exceedingly well. I'm not here to portray Tennessee as the next YLS, right, but if you want to work in Tennessee (and avoid six-figure debt), then is there a better option?

tnlegal
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby tnlegal » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:21 pm

Tennessee is really good for working in TN. Alabama does place into Tennessee but unless you already have acceptance from them I wouldn't bet on getting in(source: someone with $$$ from UT but got wl or denied at Bama, honestly don't remember so not sure why I applied there, I of course hate Alabama ). Doesn't hurt to apply if you want to go though! It's just it will likely be more expensive than Miss and marginally better chances getting back to TN. I didn't look at ole miss but I'd imagine it has ties with Memphis area, probably not as much in Nashville.

Ole Miss and Washington and Lee might be able to be used as leverage for $ from UT but it might be tough. They didn't budge when I asked outright with no mention of my other offers. Unlike UK who bumped me up quite a bit.

The Law faculty are very impressive, though. Haven't talked to anyone in admissions yet but the faculty I have talked to have very impressive connections within the state and would seem like the type of person would could get you a job, so I'd agree with BNA 's experience somewhat. Stats don't lie though. I do like that they employ none of their grads to pad their stats.

Full tuition is a lot more than 0 with the Gi bill or my case of sufficient $$, so OP I'd take our advice on employment prospects vs. Potential debt with a grain of salt.

BigZuck
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BigZuck » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:46 pm

BNA wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
BNA wrote:Zuck, the ratings mention was almost perfunctory, but you can't deny it's extreme.

Not sure how this is at all responsive to how or why the ranking jump matters.

Genuinely interested in what they shared with you that is not reflected on LST. If schools have info that paints things in a better picture, that's great! But they should get that out there so that we have a fair idea of what the employment picture looks like.

LST has 10% unemployed and about 60% in long term, full time legal employment 9 months out. We know that 28% made 60K+

I take it what they shared with you was a rosier picture than that? What did they share?


We all know the rankings don't (shouldn't) matter to us, but I believe they do to the general population. My comment wasn't meant to embolden UT, just a superficial positive remark. I'll probably out myself here, but UT made their case by showing a consistency in hiring that survived the last 7 years, and great placement for many if not most of the people who didn't qualify for JD required, long term. I personally know people who carried a UTk JD into business and are doing exceedingly well. I'm not here to portray Tennessee as the next YLS, right, but if you want to work in Tennessee (and avoid six-figure debt), then is there a better option?

I'm guessing UTK or Vandy would be the best local options for someone who wants to practice in TN, yeah

You're absolutely, 100% sure that what they showed you weren't just misleading statistics/anecdotes? It's just really disturbing/frustrating to me that in an era where sites like LST are fighting for more transparency on law school employment that a school would have super sweet employment info that actually paints a much rosier picture than prospective applicants get and they just sit on it. I mean, how is that even good for their business? Why sit on it? And why even bother collecting it if you're not going to share it? Shame on them, that's terrible.

BNA
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby BNA » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:31 am

BigZuck wrote:
BNA wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
BNA wrote:Zuck, the ratings mention was almost perfunctory, but you can't deny it's extreme.

Not sure how this is at all responsive to how or why the ranking jump matters.

Genuinely interested in what they shared with you that is not reflected on LST. If schools have info that paints things in a better picture, that's great! But they should get that out there so that we have a fair idea of what the employment picture looks like.

LST has 10% unemployed and about 60% in long term, full time legal employment 9 months out. We know that 28% made 60K+

I take it what they shared with you was a rosier picture than that? What did they share?


We all know the rankings don't (shouldn't) matter to us, but I believe they do to the general population. My comment wasn't meant to embolden UT, just a superficial positive remark. I'll probably out myself here, but UT made their case by showing a consistency in hiring that survived the last 7 years, and great placement for many if not most of the people who didn't qualify for JD required, long term. I personally know people who carried a UTk JD into business and are doing exceedingly well. I'm not here to portray Tennessee as the next YLS, right, but if you want to work in Tennessee (and avoid six-figure debt), then is there a better option?

I'm guessing UTK or Vandy would be the best local options for someone who wants to practice in TN, yeah

You're absolutely, 100% sure that what they showed you weren't just misleading statistics/anecdotes? It's just really disturbing/frustrating to me that in an era where sites like LST are fighting for more transparency on law school employment that a school would have super sweet employment info that actually paints a much rosier picture than prospective applicants get and they just sit on it. I mean, how is that even good for their business? Why sit on it? And why even bother collecting it if you're not going to share it? Shame on them, that's terrible.


I don't think they're sitting on anything. In fact, I think schools are trying to get this information out, but our over-analytical, critical minds focus on the negative which often comes from websites that may show you how many students went to biglaw, but fail to relate how many "JD preferred" graduates wanted or expected that outcome. There's a 3L in his 70s there now. You think he's hoping to land a position with a top firm? I had beers with a guy a couple weeks ago who is going to work for his uncle in a 5 man office doing family law when he graduates regardless of class rank because he'll end up making a fortune. I'm going to work for the family business, which will be a "professional" position, but will pay equal if not better than a Nashville associate position. Generalizations should be investigated before considered factual.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby zombie mcavoy » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:15 am

But you realize you're the one making broad generalizations based on a few anecdotes, right?

If UTk had some incredible data set that proved their outcomes aren't as shitty as they appear, the school would be marketing the fuck out of the them. There's a reason they aren't. (Maybe they are? Send us the link, if so).

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Iroh
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby Iroh » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:21 am

BNA wrote:
I don't think they're sitting on anything. In fact, I think schools are trying to get this information out, but our over-analytical, critical minds focus on the negative which often comes from websites that may show you how many students went to biglaw, but fail to relate how many "JD preferred" graduates wanted or expected that outcome. There's a 3L in his 70s there now. You think he's hoping to land a position with a top firm? I had beers with a guy a couple weeks ago who is going to work for his uncle in a 5 man office doing family law when he graduates regardless of class rank because he'll end up making a fortune. I'm going to work for the family business, which will be a "professional" position, but will pay equal if not better than a Nashville associate position. Generalizations should be investigated before considered factual.


You're right, we've overlooked two crucial factors for many law school applicants: nepotism and the sweet embrace of death.

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deadpanic
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Re: Ole Miss vs. Tennessee

Postby deadpanic » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:21 pm

BNA wrote:I don't think they're sitting on anything. In fact, I think schools are trying to get this information out, but our over-analytical, critical minds focus on the negative which often comes from websites that may show you how many students went to biglaw, but fail to relate how many "JD preferred" graduates wanted or expected that outcome. There's a 3L in his 70s there now. You think he's hoping to land a position with a top firm? I had beers with a guy a couple weeks ago who is going to work for his uncle in a 5 man office doing family law when he graduates regardless of class rank because he'll end up making a fortune. I'm going to work for the family business, which will be a "professional" position, but will pay equal if not better than a Nashville associate position. Generalizations should be investigated before considered factual.


Practicing attorney in Tennessee. The state's legal market is awful and overcrowded with not a lot of work because of lack of industry, outside of Nashville for big firms in health care & IP/tech, which will only hire maybe 7 or 8 top students from UT every year.

If you are in fact going into the family business for this "professional" position, why not just go to the Nashville School of Law? It is like 5k a year at night, and you can work during the day for this prestigious family business before you become in-house counsel.




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