St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet Forum
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:49 pm
St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
As a recent graduate of St. Mary’s University School of Law, my number one piece of advice in deciding to attend STMU is to set your expectations accordingly. STMU is consistently ranked in the 4th tier and in recent years its bar passage rate has hovered around second to last in the state. However, that being said, STMU does not attempt to be a national 4th tier JD mill like some schools. One of the advantages of St. Mary’s is the fact that it is the only law school located within a decent-sized city (San Antonio – 1.4 million). Because of that, most graduates are successful in obtaining employment as attorneys (hence the high employment rate in ranking stats). However, before you get too excited, this is where expectations have to be managed. Most of my classmates went on to work for small firms (think 5-10 attorneys or less), the DA’s office, non-profits, or are attempting to go it alone. Biglaw placements in San Antonio are a rare exception for St. Mary’s grads. For example, from what I can peruse from their website, Akin Gump’s San Antonio office has 1 Partner and 1 Senior Attorney , and 0 associates who graduated from St. Mary’s. The vast majority of the more recent associates came from UT. Similarly, Norton Rose Fulbright (previously Fulbright & Jaworski), has 4 associates and 5 counsels (not sure what the difference between the two is) who graduated from St. Mary’s. Those attorneys came from the classes of 1987, 1996, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Additionally Strasburger has 4 associates from the classes of 1992, 2009, and 2014. Point is—there are occasional biglaw positions that come up, but they are sporadic and an applicant should not by any means attend STMU with the expectation of a biglaw job—even if you are at the top of the class with law review etc. The big question that most prospective students have is how much they can expect to make at their first job. Based on anecdotal evidence from discussions with some of my former classmates, I would advise a potential applicant to expect to land a job earning about $40-$50k right out of school and plan accordingly.
-
- Posts: 11730
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Is this a taking questions thread?bankofmouse wrote:As a recent graduate of St. Mary’s University School of Law, my number one piece of advice in deciding to attend STMU is to set your expectations accordingly. STMU is consistently ranked in the 4th tier and in recent years its bar passage rate has hovered around second to last in the state. However, that being said, STMU does not attempt to be a national 4th tier JD mill like some schools. One of the advantages of St. Mary’s is the fact that it is the only law school located within a decent-sized city (San Antonio – 1.4 million). Because of that, most graduates are successful in obtaining employment as attorneys (hence the high employment rate in ranking stats). However, before you get too excited, this is where expectations have to be managed. Most of my classmates went on to work for small firms (think 5-10 attorneys or less), the DA’s office, non-profits, or are attempting to go it alone. Biglaw placements in San Antonio are a rare exception for St. Mary’s grads. For example, from what I can peruse from their website, Akin Gump’s San Antonio office has 1 Partner and 1 Senior Attorney , and 0 associates who graduated from St. Mary’s. The vast majority of the more recent associates came from UT. Similarly, Norton Rose Fulbright (previously Fulbright & Jaworski), has 4 associates and 5 counsels (not sure what the difference between the two is) who graduated from St. Mary’s. Those attorneys came from the classes of 1987, 1996, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Additionally Strasburger has 4 associates from the classes of 1992, 2009, and 2014. Point is—there are occasional biglaw positions that come up, but they are sporadic and an applicant should not by any means attend STMU with the expectation of a biglaw job—even if you are at the top of the class with law review etc. The big question that most prospective students have is how much they can expect to make at their first job. Based on anecdotal evidence from discussions with some of my former classmates, I would advise a potential applicant to expect to land a job earning about $40-$50k right out of school and plan accordingly.
How much debt are most of your classmates in, would you say? And do you think what the school provides is worth the cost?
Where do you draw the line between toilet and not a toilet? Texas does seem to have a few lower ranked schools with decent LST scores, are you basing the toilet line on the percentage employed as a lawyer 9 months out?
-
- Posts: 700
- Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:06 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
This looks pretty bleak to me: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/stmarys/2013/
Seems like you've got about a 50/50 shot of gettting a job that pays 40-50k out of the gate. About a 25% shot of doing non-legal or part-time work. And about a 25% shot of opening a solo practice (good luck with that).
Seems like you've got about a 50/50 shot of gettting a job that pays 40-50k out of the gate. About a 25% shot of doing non-legal or part-time work. And about a 25% shot of opening a solo practice (good luck with that).
- Mack.Hambleton
- Posts: 5414
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
do you work for the school
- Manteca
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:55 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Mack.Hambleton wrote:do you work for the school
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
- zombie mcavoy
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?
I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.
I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.
-
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:00 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
this will be interesting
- romothesavior
- Posts: 14692
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Statistically speaking it's got toilet prospects for most grads.
-
- Posts: 4102
- Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:04 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
52% is high? Jeez. That's using the word "most" to the EXACT definition of the word..bankofmouse wrote:As a recent graduate of St. Mary’s University School of Law, my number one piece of advice in deciding to attend STMU is to set your expectations accordingly. STMU is consistently ranked in the 4th tier and in recent years its bar passage rate has hovered around second to last in the state. However, that being said, STMU does not attempt to be a national 4th tier JD mill like some schools. One of the advantages of St. Mary’s is the fact that it is the only law school located within a decent-sized city (San Antonio – 1.4 million). Because of that, most graduates are successful in obtaining employment as attorneys (hence the high employment rate in ranking stats). However, before you get too excited, this is where expectations have to be managed. Most of my classmates went on to work for small firms (think 5-10 attorneys or less), the DA’s office, non-profits, or are attempting to go it alone. Biglaw placements in San Antonio are a rare exception for St. Mary’s grads. For example, from what I can peruse from their website, Akin Gump’s San Antonio office has 1 Partner and 1 Senior Attorney , and 0 associates who graduated from St. Mary’s. The vast majority of the more recent associates came from UT. Similarly, Norton Rose Fulbright (previously Fulbright & Jaworski), has 4 associates and 5 counsels (not sure what the difference between the two is) who graduated from St. Mary’s. Those attorneys came from the classes of 1987, 1996, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012 and 2013. Additionally Strasburger has 4 associates from the classes of 1992, 2009, and 2014. Point is—there are occasional biglaw positions that come up, but they are sporadic and an applicant should not by any means attend STMU with the expectation of a biglaw job—even if you are at the top of the class with law review etc. The big question that most prospective students have is how much they can expect to make at their first job. Based on anecdotal evidence from discussions with some of my former classmates, I would advise a potential applicant to expect to land a job earning about $40-$50k right out of school and plan accordingly.
- gilessanderson
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:10 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
So as long as my expectation out of law school is to be unemployed, then it's a more reasonable decision to go?
- rpupkin
- Posts: 5653
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Where are you getting your numbers from?zombie mcavoy wrote:50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?
I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.
- DELG
- Posts: 3021
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 7:15 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
I will give you this, not a notorious toilet
After all I have never even heard of it
After all I have never even heard of it
-
- Posts: 4102
- Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 3:04 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
We played St. Mary's in college many times. The law school #'s speak for themselves... but it was also easily the ugliest campus in our entire conference, and every store/restaurant/place of business was completely in spanish. Like, if you don't know spanish, you can hardly tell a grocery store from a mini mall.
Its not even defendable. Not even a "well its in a great area and the campus is fun and vibrant" sort of thing. Its a TTTT college in general.
The opposing players were bros though. Recommended some good bars along the Riverwalk
Its not even defendable. Not even a "well its in a great area and the campus is fun and vibrant" sort of thing. Its a TTTT college in general.
The opposing players were bros though. Recommended some good bars along the Riverwalk
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- rpupkin
- Posts: 5653
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
I know folks are having fun shitting all over the OP and the OP's law school, but I'm not sure that schools like St. Mary's are the biggest problem with legal education. Its LSN employment scores are better than those of the dumpster fires at Hastings and American. (Actually, St. Mary's LSN score looks similar to those of many of the schools ranked between 40 and 50.) The school charges $33K/yr instead of $50K/yr. And it's located in a city with a relatively low COA.
I'm not saying the typical St. Mary's 1L has made a great career decision. But if you get some modest financial aid, want to work as a lawyer in San Antonio, and go into the school with the OP's attitude (which is basically reasonable), you're making a defensible choice.
I'm not saying the typical St. Mary's 1L has made a great career decision. But if you get some modest financial aid, want to work as a lawyer in San Antonio, and go into the school with the OP's attitude (which is basically reasonable), you're making a defensible choice.
- DaRascal
- Posts: 1853
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.
Don't go to this school!
Don't go to this school!
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Stop doing this pointless ranking thing. You have a cage for a reason.DaRascal wrote:Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.
Don't go to this school!
- DaRascal
- Posts: 1853
- Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Sorry, Nony, just wanted to share how I would pick if I were in OP's position.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- A. Nony Mouse
- Posts: 29293
- Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Suggesting people pay any attention to USNWR rankings is bad advice.DaRascal wrote:Sorry, Nony, just wanted to share how I would pick if I were in OP's position.
- Desert Fox
- Posts: 18283
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:34 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
I did CCD at St Mary's church. Is this the same thing?
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
- zombie mcavoy
- Posts: 428
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:11 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Where do you think?rpupkin wrote:Where are you getting your numbers from?zombie mcavoy wrote:50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?
I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.
- TheSpanishMain
- Posts: 4744
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Nony, you know I love you and I think all the mods do great work but take him out behind the woodshed already.A. Nony Mouse wrote:Stop doing this pointless ranking thing. You have a cage for a reason.DaRascal wrote:Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.
Don't go to this school!
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- LawBron James
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:13 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
Using 3 years of your life for about a coin flip's chance of achieving your goal is a pretty risky proposition, but you're definitely right that they're not as predatory as some of the other dumps out there, and 52% actually looks decent in comparison.rpupkin wrote:I know folks are having fun shitting all over the OP and the OP's law school, but I'm not sure that schools like St. Mary's are the biggest problem with legal education. Its LSN employment scores are better than those of the dumpster fires at Hastings and American. (Actually, St. Mary's LSN score looks similar to those of many of the schools ranked between 40 and 50.) The school charges $33K/yr instead of $50K/yr. And it's located in a city with a relatively low COA.
I'm not saying the typical St. Mary's 1L has made a great career decision. But if you get some modest financial aid, want to work as a lawyer in San Antonio, and go into the school with the OP's attitude (which is basically reasonable), you're making a defensible choice.
Just the fact that I've never even heard of them has to be a positive. I thought St Mary's was in California.
- ballcaps
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:20 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
TheSpanishMain wrote:Nony, you know I love you and I think all the mods do great work but take him out behind the woodshed already.A. Nony Mouse wrote:Stop doing this pointless ranking thing. You have a cage for a reason.DaRascal wrote:Hmmm well I just checked the law school rankings and St. Mary's University is "RNP", which I suppose means ranking not provided, but that's gotta be very bad because there's a 5 way tie at 149, so that means that St. Mary's is no better than the 154th best law school.
Don't go to this school!
- jbagelboy
- Posts: 10361
- Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
What is this post intending to prove
- amw342
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:54 pm
Re: St. Mary's Univ. - 4th Tier But Not Neccesarily a Toilet
lol I actually laughed out loud to myself.zombie mcavoy wrote:50% chance of unemployment, 200K sticker price, and a 1.5% chance at a job that pays better than 60K?
I agree that it is not necessarily a toilet: It's more like an old shitter tank.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login