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(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

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thatguy12
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Postby thatguy12 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:49 pm

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Last edited by thatguy12 on Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thebobs1987
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thebobs1987 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:55 pm

thatguy12 wrote:Full tuition scholarship to UIUC, $17k/yr to FSU, still waiting for $$$ from UF, and tuition equalization and $5k/year from UGA.

UIUC and FSU seem to be similarly priced at this point, although tuition guarantee at Illinois seems appealing. While I have ties to Florida, I really am open to living anywhere as long as I'm not living in the projects and risk getting stabbed at any moment. UF may offer something better than FSU, but I am going to expect a similar offer at this point. UGA would be significantly more expensive, at estimates at approximately $13k+ more a year than other options.

I'm leaning towards UIUC, but the rankings uncertainty makes me feel uneasy (I know rankings are lame, I just feel like a fluctuating reputation isn't a positive). Let me know any recommendations!

WILDCARD:
People PM'd me about FIU, who has offered me a full scholarship and $5k grant per year. Added to the poll just in case.


Rankings don't matter, there are more employers at UIUC OCI now than there were in 2012 when it was ranked 23rd. But if you don't want to be in Chicago or St. Louis I wouldn't attend. What are your goals after law school?

BigZuck
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:58 pm

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide all of the following:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby zombie mcavoy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:01 pm

need the info zuck asked for. but if you have never lived in the Midwest and don't want to be there for the long haul you need to cross UIUC off your list.

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:29 pm

Schools considering in no particular order:
1. UIUC: COA = $21,522/year
2. FSU: COA = $20,593/year
3. UF: Still awaiting scholarship information
4. UGA: COA = $30,140/year

COA numbers are pulled from the respective school recommendations and likely to be a little lower for each, as I would like to believe I could find a little cheaper housing.

I am from Florida, and my parents are currently residing in Florida as well. As I previously stated, I am really open to practicing my career anywhere. As for career goals, I am currently interested in administrative law but I have a general sense that it may change significantly during law school so I'm quite open-minded. LSAT and GPA are 164 and 3.5, and I have taken the LSAT more than a few times.

Ultimately, the main goal is to get an awesome education at a fair price in an area that has a stable legal market.

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sublime
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby sublime » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:36 pm

..

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby zombie mcavoy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:42 pm

Wait to see what the UF scholarship is, otherwise I suppose FSU is fine under these costs and circumstances. UGA is too expensive here. UIUC makes no sense.

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:47 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:Wait to see what the UF scholarship is, otherwise I suppose FSU is fine under these costs and circumstances. UGA is too expensive here. UIUC makes no sense.


Yeah, UF is taking a little bit to send scholarship information. UIUC is primarily due to the apprehensions I have about the current legal market in Florida.

Nomo
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby Nomo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:53 pm

Given your goals, the cost, and the job opportunities at the schools you've listed I'd go with . . . . None of the above.

BigZuck
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:54 pm

Still think you need to figure out true COA numbers. Don't use school numbers and subtract scholarships, use a calculator that calculates loan interest, etc. You'll be in a good amount more debt than those numbers times 3.

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:15 pm

Nomo wrote:Given your goals, the cost, and the job opportunities at the schools you've listed I'd go with . . . . None of the above.


err...thank you for your honesty. Unfortunately for me, I believe that these options are the only financially viable options for me to continue my professional development. :/

BigZuck wrote:Still think you need to figure out true COA numbers. Don't use school numbers and subtract scholarships, use a calculator that calculates loan interest, etc. You'll be in a good amount more debt than those numbers times 3.


So far, the calculator is estimating that UIUC would be around $50k at repayment, and that FSU would float a little below $60k. At UIUC, I did find some cheap housing, so I was able to factor that into the costs. However, FSU may be a little cheaper if I can get more accurate housing information, but I'm guessing the estimated cost may be pretty accurate at the moment.

thebobs1987
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thebobs1987 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:28 pm

sublime wrote:
thebobs1987 wrote:
thatguy12 wrote:Full tuition scholarship to UIUC, $17k/yr to FSU, still waiting for $$$ from UF, and tuition equalization and $5k/year from UGA.

UIUC and FSU seem to be similarly priced at this point, although tuition guarantee at Illinois seems appealing. While I have ties to Florida, I really am open to living anywhere as long as I'm not living in the projects and risk getting stabbed at any moment. UF may offer something better than FSU, but I am going to expect a similar offer at this point. UGA would be significantly more expensive, at estimates at approximately $13k+ more a year than other options.

I'm leaning towards UIUC, but the rankings uncertainty makes me feel uneasy (I know rankings are lame, I just feel like a fluctuating reputation isn't a positive). Let me know any recommendations!

WILDCARD:
People PM'd me about FIU, who has offered me a full scholarship and $5k grant per year. Added to the poll just in case.


Rankings don't matter, there are more employers at UIUC OCI now than there were in 2012 when it was ranked 23rd. But if you don't want to be in Chicago or St. Louis I wouldn't attend. What are your goals after law school?



I would urge you not to go to UIUC with hopes of breaking into StL. It simply won't happen.

I would not go to UGA at that price with your other options.

Worry less about getting an awesome education and rankings and more about COA and placement.


Well a lot of people do go to St. Louis from UIUC, but yeah most if not all have ties

thebobs1987
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thebobs1987 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:31 pm

thatguy12 wrote:
Nomo wrote:Given your goals, the cost, and the job opportunities at the schools you've listed I'd go with . . . . None of the above.


err...thank you for your honesty. Unfortunately for me, I believe that these options are the only financially viable options for me to continue my professional development. :/

BigZuck wrote:Still think you need to figure out true COA numbers. Don't use school numbers and subtract scholarships, use a calculator that calculates loan interest, etc. You'll be in a good amount more debt than those numbers times 3.


So far, the calculator is estimating that UIUC would be around $50k at repayment, and that FSU would float a little below $60k. At UIUC, I did find some cheap housing, so I was able to factor that into the costs. However, FSU may be a little cheaper if I can get more accurate housing information, but I'm guessing the estimated cost may be pretty accurate at the moment.


I have a full ride at UIUC will be around 50k so that is pretty accurate. But only go if you actually are going to be committed to being in the midwest. FSU at just under 60k isn't bad if you want to stay in Florida. I would figure that out first, then get a rough idea of what you want to do with your law degree, then pick a school. Are you out of retakes?

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:43 pm

thebobs1987 wrote:I have a full ride at UIUC will be around 50k so that is pretty accurate. But only go if you actually are going to be committed to being in the midwest. FSU at just under 60k isn't bad if you want to stay in Florida. I would figure that out first, then get a rough idea of what you want to do with your law degree, then pick a school. Are you out of retakes?


Honestly, I don't really have a problem staying in Florida, but I feel like opportunities may be greater in the Midwest. If I attend UIUC, I am definitely going in with the mindset that I am going to spend most of my career in that region. I've visited the Midwest multiple times and while the snow and icy roads are a pain in the butt, I really wouldn't mind living there. (Albeit, I'm not sure how great I'm going to think it is every morning I have to shovel snow and scrape ice off my windshields...but I'm sure it'll be fine)

As for retakes, can't at the moment. Might be able to squeeze into next cycle but I'm apprehensive to putting off school more (I've been out of undergrad for a good while).

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby zombie mcavoy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:46 pm

people who are voting for UIUC: why aren't you giving your reasoning? Because it's shitty reasoning?

OP has no ties to the Midwest nor has any specific desire to be there. He's interested in it "due to the apprehensions I have about the current legal market in Florida." Illinois' legal market is not exactly in a great place, the surrounding states are insular as fuck, and UIUC does nothing for placement outside the region. UIUC is not a good idea.

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zombie mcavoy
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby zombie mcavoy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:50 pm

thatguy12 wrote:Honestly, I don't really have a problem staying in Florida, but I feel like opportunities may be greater in the Midwest. If I attend UIUC, I am definitely going in with the mindset that I am going to spend most of my career in that region. I've visited the Midwest multiple times and while the snow and icy roads are a pain in the butt, I really wouldn't mind living there. (Albeit, I'm not sure how great I'm going to think it is every morning I have to shovel snow and scrape ice off my windshields...but I'm sure it'll be fine)

Dude this is a really bad reason to move to the midwest. And outside of Chicago, you're not going to be wanted: all of the "major" regional markets that would give any value to a UIUC degree are 1) very saturated, and 2) very insular. And Chicago hiring has been pretty brutal of late: at UIUC you're automatically on the outside looking in, and you can't plan on grades distinguishing you.

The safe and correct decision here is to stay in Florida. The best and most correct decision is to retake.

wat
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby wat » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:58 pm

Go with whoever gives you more between FSU and UF.

Or, retake, and then do the same at a lower cost. Even a small bump in test scores could knock your costs down by five figures.

wat
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby wat » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:02 pm

Btw, the latest rankings put UF a couple of slots ahead of FSU this year (it was the opposite last year). They're still basically even, but maybe you can use that info to get a few more shekels out of FSU.

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:01 pm

zombie mcavoy wrote:
thatguy12 wrote:Honestly, I don't really have a problem staying in Florida, but I feel like opportunities may be greater in the Midwest. If I attend UIUC, I am definitely going in with the mindset that I am going to spend most of my career in that region. I've visited the Midwest multiple times and while the snow and icy roads are a pain in the butt, I really wouldn't mind living there. (Albeit, I'm not sure how great I'm going to think it is every morning I have to shovel snow and scrape ice off my windshields...but I'm sure it'll be fine)

Dude this is a really bad reason to move to the Midwest. And outside of Chicago, you're not going to be wanted: all of the "major" regional markets that would give any value to a UIUC degree are 1) very saturated, and 2) very insular. And Chicago hiring has been pretty brutal of late: at UIUC you're automatically on the outside looking in, and you can't plan on grades distinguishing you.

The safe and correct decision here is to stay in Florida. The best and most correct decision is to retake.


I mean that's not really the reason why I want to move to the Midwest, as I said before it seems the market is somewhat livelier there than Florida. While the importance of strong ties aren't lost on me, I feel that most of my ties in Florida are either very small or have an uncertain future (parents may relocate eventually and siblings are already spread across the country). I feel the major regional markets in the Southeast are at least equally or even more saturated than that of the Midwest (employment numbers from FSU and UF don't seem to show as great of employment numbers than UIUC). I really appreciate all your advice though, so I was leaning heavily towards UIUC before but FSU and UF are definitely legitimate options at this point.

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storpappa
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby storpappa » Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:38 pm

58% for UIUC?
Is it because its free tuition, but they are ignoring the living expenses in that COA number? Are they just seeing non T-14 schools and clicking full ride in the poll?

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:22 pm

storpappa wrote:58% for UIUC?
Is it because its free tuition, but they are ignoring the living expenses in that COA number? Are they just seeing non T-14 schools and clicking full ride in the poll?


I'm not entirely sure, since I'm the one asking lol. But I think UIUC is probably the most appealing offer I have received so far, guaranteed full tuition is in my mind better than $17k at FSU due to increases.

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FuturePanhandler
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby FuturePanhandler » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:50 pm

Have you gotten an offer from UF yet? A lot of people got offers on Friday.

thatguy12
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby thatguy12 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:53 pm

FuturePanhandler wrote:Have you gotten an offer from UF yet? A lot of people got offers on Friday.


Actually yes, but it was not comparable to the FSU or UIUC offer whatsoever. Starting to get annoyed by UF's admission process and committee, I've probably invested more time and effort into the UF application/scholarship process than all my other admits combined.

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MarkfromWI
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby MarkfromWI » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:34 am

Honestly, law school is not the time to relocate without a very, very good reason (such as T-14 with money, spouse relocating for work, etc.). Your ties to FL may be weak, but it beats NO TIES AT ALL. I think you are really underestimating how difficult it will be to convince someone in Des Moines or Indianapolis that you truly want to be there and won't go fleeing back to FL once the temp drops below freezing (and that's even assuming UIUC can get you an interview in DM or Indianapolis...)

Even though you don't have law-reated ties, being from Florida, living there, and having a life there does count for something when it comes to hiring. It at least shows firms that you aren't likely a flight risk. Moreover, lets say you strike out in the midwest, coming back to FL with a degree from UIUC won't be the easiest thing ever. Then you'll get employers asking you why you went to UIUC if you wanted to be in Florida. I understand how a full tuition scholarship to a good school is appealing, but that doesn't mean it's risk free.

I would seriously consider FSU with the discount. Best of luck to you.

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transferror
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Re: UIUC vs FSU vs UF(?) vs UGA

Postby transferror » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:15 pm

OP, being a transplant at a regional school is a bad idea. I fell into this trap as did many of my peers, so please don't make the same mistake. There's a terrible dynamic where, the major market (Chicago for you, Philadelphia for me) is less "ties sensitive" than the surrounding areas or markets (Indianapolis, Des Moines, Madison, Cincinnati for you, Delware and New Jersey for me), but you will need excellent grades and interview skills to have a shot at Chicago. So there's a good chance you whiff in Chicago even with good grades, and then you're forced to look in areas where people care far less about grades and more about roots in the area, in which case you're screwed. Joe Blow with median grades who went to the local college and grew up in the area beats you every time, and the vast majority of students at regional schools are local students. And that's with good grades - you're dead in the water at median.

Seriously, UIUC is a great school for Midwesterners (especially splitters) looking to stay local and gives students a nice outside chance at biglaw, but it's a trap for you. And don't get me wrong, it wouldn't be life ruinous or anything since you'll have so little debt, but it's a bad decision.

Go to FSU for cheap or retake for a big scholarship at Vanderbilt/Duke/UVA.




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