Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:03 pm

well they're 12th in BL+FC (57%) so really more accurate

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starry eyed
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby starry eyed » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:14 pm

So "DVP" it is.

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usernotfound
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby usernotfound » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:22 pm

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Last edited by usernotfound on Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:25 pm

A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:54 pm

A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.


Jesus Christ. What's their crime, charging less than $60K for sticker tuition? Having a football team?

I don't have any ties to Michigan...
Last edited by r1tlv50 on Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CaptainJapan
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby CaptainJapan » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:01 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.



+100 TLS street cred for hating on bottom-half t14s

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ballcaps
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby ballcaps » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:04 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.


Jesus Christ. What's their crime, charging less than $60K for sticker tuition? Having a football team?


i thought there was some sarcasm floating around? maybe not...

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:08 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:
Quote:
A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and a while because Michigan is a terrible school.


Jesus Christ. What's their crime, charging less than $60K for sticker tuition? Having a football team?


i thought there was some sarcasm floating around? maybe not...


I dunno, there's nothing to suggest it from that short of a post. I hope so though, but there isn't really a limit to how far some people have their heads up their asses over 'preftige' (reason number 11989878 people generally don't like lawyers)

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:35 pm

I'm sorry people must not be evaluating law schools on job placement data anymore.

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:49 pm

lol don't think jobs have ever been the number one consideration for any published lists...there's always been some hot air thrown into the equation

i just looked and mich does have a low biglaw + fedclerk score though. presumably average COA is also lower than other t14s

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:37 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:lol don't think jobs have ever been the number one consideration for any published lists...there's always been some hot air thrown into the equation

i just looked and mich does have a low biglaw + fedclerk score though. presumably average COA is also lower than other t14s


Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:53 pm

Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.


50-55% biglaw + fedclerk numbers at Michigan vs. 60-70% at the other T14's. I'm not buying that you'd only be able to save 30k living out there as opposed to east coast or CA. I'm not gonna crunch the numbers on that one but just eyeballing it it looks like it could make economic sense even without great financial aid

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:56 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:
Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.


50-55% biglaw + fedclerk numbers at Michigan vs. 60-70% at the other T14's. I'm not buying that you'd only be able to save 30k living out there as opposed to east coast or CA. I'm not gonna crunch the numbers on that one but just eyeballing it it looks like it could make economic sense even without great financial aid

Mal just did the work for you. It doesn't.

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:18 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:
Quote:
Jerbless but $250k in debt rather than $280k. What a bargain.


50-55% biglaw + fedclerk numbers at Michigan vs. 60-70% at the other T14's. I'm not buying that you'd only be able to save 30k living out there as opposed to east coast or CA. I'm not gonna crunch the numbers on that one but just eyeballing it it looks like it could make economic sense even without great financial aid
Mal just did the work for you. It doesn't.


Oh okay 250 v. 280 was from the profiles. Really hoping I can avoid throwing down the COL they're estimating, but that's a different topic.

In any event, it's not night and day the way "terrible school" suggests.

Also kinda odd Penn outperforms Mich on the biglaw stuff pretty heavily some years yet they're considered peers

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Mal Reynolds » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:21 pm

They're not peers at all. Penn is clearly superior.

zhongxiaozhui
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby zhongxiaozhui » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:26 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:They're not peers at all. Penn is clearly superior.

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:31 pm

haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:32 pm

Penn has a higher BL+FC % than NYU, so yeah

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052220152
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby 052220152 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:41 pm

virginia isnt really that great either, 63% firm plus clerks, they hire a ton of their students, pretty TTT behavior
duke is 60%
m 57%
b 56%
n 63%
c 68% (apparently all to nyc tho)

these numbers are all close enough that $$$ should change where you go. basically, if you dont go to penn or higher, make sure that you are getting good money

BigZuck
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby BigZuck » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:44 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn


Those groupings are generally based on admissions criteria (HYS is hardest to get into, CCN a little easier, MVPB a little easier than that, DCNG easier than that) also kinda based on job outcomes (HYS has better outcomes than CCN, CCN has better outcomes than MVPB, etc.) but mostly it's just kind of TLS convention and not worth trying to decipher those tiers because you can find all sorts of exceptions.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:45 pm

Jim Jones wrote:virginia isnt really that great either, 63% firm plus clerks, they hire a ton of their students, pretty TTT behavior
duke is 60%
m 57%
b 56%
n 63%
c 68% (apparently all to nyc tho)

these numbers are all close enough that $$$ should change where you go. basically, if you dont go to penn or higher, make sure that you are getting good money


Yeah, if you're dead set on biglaw, Cornell might be the best bang for your LSAT points and/or $$$ if you can't get into a T6.

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052220152
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby 052220152 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:47 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Jim Jones wrote:virginia isnt really that great either, 63% firm plus clerks, they hire a ton of their students, pretty TTT behavior
duke is 60%
m 57%
b 56%
n 63%
c 68% (apparently all to nyc tho)

these numbers are all close enough that $$$ should change where you go. basically, if you dont go to penn or higher, make sure that you are getting good money


Yeah, if you're dead set on biglaw, Cornell might be the best bang for your LSAT points and/or $$$ if you can't get into a T6.


cornell needs to get more love, who gives two shits if it mostly feeds to nyc, those numbers are fuckin golden

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r1tlv50
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby r1tlv50 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:08 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:
haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn



Those groupings are generally based on admissions criteria (HYS is hardest to get into, CCN a little easier, MVPB a little easier than that, DCNG easier than that) also kinda based on job outcomes (HYS has better outcomes than CCN, CCN has better outcomes than MVPB, etc.) but mostly it's just kind of TLS convention and not worth trying to decipher those tiers because you can find all sorts of exceptions.


penn v. nyu in particular makes me wonder though. just on very general evaluations of the schools (biglaw and clerk percentages, gpa/lsat), it seems like penn's got the advantage in everything but the lsat percentiles

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sims1
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Re: Michigan no longer a T10 - run away all is doomed

Postby sims1 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:17 pm

r1tlv50 wrote:
r1tlv50 wrote:
haha. I got that from the HYS -> CCN -> PV...etc breakdowns people post on here (i think they normally group Penn and Mich). i agree that the job data favor penn



Those groupings are generally based on admissions criteria (HYS is hardest to get into, CCN a little easier, MVPB a little easier than that, DCNG easier than that) also kinda based on job outcomes (HYS has better outcomes than CCN, CCN has better outcomes than MVPB, etc.) but mostly it's just kind of TLS convention and not worth trying to decipher those tiers because you can find all sorts of exceptions.


penn v. nyu in particular makes me wonder though. just on very general evaluations of the schools (biglaw and clerk percentages, gpa/lsat), it seems like penn's got the advantage in everything but the lsat percentiles


I don't think Penn beats NYU in big law (even if it's just because of proximity to law firms). The differential can in part be explained by people with good grades self-selecting out of the biglaw route at NYU for PI.




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