US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
jenesaislaw
Posts: 996
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:37 pm

I think it does the opposite of creating accountability -- at least accountability in sufficient amounts to metrics we should care about.

One of the major weaknesses of the rankings is that they don't tell you which schools are poor choices. They only tell you that one school is a poorer choice than another. It doesn't say that any of them are poor enough not to attend.

Mr.Scoops
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun May 24, 2015 1:42 am

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby Mr.Scoops » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:02 am

Unless you get in to the T-14, it really comes down to where you want to practice more then anything. For about 45 of the 50 states, I would tell someone make sure you go to the best school in the state you plan on practicing in to be the most competitive. If you have no preference on what state you live in, then apply to schools in your #'s range and pick the one that is most competitive in its particular market relative to the other ones (ex. if you get in to two law schools and one is the best in its market and the other one is third best in its market go to the one that is best in its market as long as the markets are similar). The other 5 or so states either have multiple elite law schools (CA, NY, IL, VA/DC region) or have large/booming economies/markets to where a 2nd place school is good enough (TX).

National rankings become bogus because choosing between say Arizona State (#26) and University of Florida (#47) isn't about choosing the better law school, it's about choosing where you ultimately want to live despite the rankings clearly suggesting one is better then the other. An ASU grad isn't going to do better in Florida then a UF grad, class rank the same, and vice versa of course.

A better ranking system would be a ranking for each state or region. For example, a ranking for FL (my home state hence why I keep using it as the example) might look something like this:

1.-14. The T-14 schools
15. UF
16. FSU
17. UM
and so on.

The ranking could tell the reader how many people from each school are reporting from that region/state and then average salaries and employment rates from each school in that state.

Of course I'm sure some people really have no clue or don't care where they practice. In that case some sort of national ranking might be preferred, maybe just one that doesn't use some of US News's criteria

User avatar
FullRamboLSGrad
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 6:47 pm

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby FullRamboLSGrad » Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:10 am

Mr.Scoops wrote:Unless you get in to the T-14, it really comes down to where you want to practice more then anything. For about 45 of the 50 states, I would tell someone make sure you go to the best school in the state you plan on practicing in to be the most competitive. If you have no preference on what state you live in, then apply to schools in your #'s range and pick the one that is most competitive in its particular market relative to the other ones (ex. if you get in to two law schools and one is the best in its market and the other one is third best in its market go to the one that is best in its market as long as the markets are similar). The other 5 or so states either have multiple elite law schools (CA, NY, IL, VA/DC region) or have large/booming economies/markets to where a 2nd place school is good enough (TX).

National rankings become bogus because choosing between say Arizona State (#26) and University of Florida (#47) isn't about choosing the better law school, it's about choosing where you ultimately want to live despite the rankings clearly suggesting one is better then the other. An ASU grad isn't going to do better in Florida then a UF grad, class rank the same, and vice versa of course.

A better ranking system would be a ranking for each state or region. For example, a ranking for FL (my home state hence why I keep using it as the example) might look something like this:

1.-14. The T-14 schools
15. UF
16. FSU
17. UM
and so on.

The ranking could tell the reader how many people from each school are reporting from that region/state and then average salaries and employment rates from each school in that state.

Of course I'm sure some people really have no clue or don't care where they practice. In that case some sort of national ranking might be preferred, maybe just one that doesn't use some of US News's criteria

Great post!

A regional system would work better agreed, especially in States like NC, CA or FL that have many schools of varying quality.

User avatar
RamTitan
Posts: 1053
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:45 pm

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby RamTitan » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:54 pm

Aftermath wrote:I understand why the third point is being made, but it's not entirely true. The rankings are based on a number grade which takes a bit of digging to find. To use the examples in the post, Columbia received a grade of 93 while NYU got an 89. As for Cornell, their score was 79 and Vanderbilt's was 74. So the gap between Cornell and Vanderbilt is a little wider than it is between NYU and Columbia. One could argue that this grade is not much more informative, but it is there and shows differences in quality moreso than the rankings themselves.

Where did you find these grades? I don't see them listed on the online version of the list.

BillClinton Jr
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby BillClinton Jr » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:04 am

Clyde Frog wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Dumb article.
1. the goal is to come up with some proxy to determine what the best law schools are. anyone can list last year's employment rankings. you'll find however that those numbers fluctuate. the fact that everyone says you want to be a lawyer --that's the point of the lsat --doesn't mean that the fucking purpose of legal education is to maximize employment outcomes only.

what's fucking even more insane is that you started an entire website called "law school transparency" whereby you challenge the notion that a single percentage of employment is an appropriate means to gauge employment :lol: :lol: . so you fucking say "only 18% of your ranking is based on this really important number..." even though you think it's a shitty number to begin. :roll: :roll: dope.

moreover, "only 18%"?? you give us absolutely no idea if that's actually high or low. do a sensititivy analysis with this number you hate so much and then offer your still super layman's opinion that "this is failure number 1."

2. i don't even get this point. it's impossible to try to determine if university of arizona is a better school than uconn because people who go to school in arizona won't want to work in uconn? No shit. Perhaps this is why they don't do a fucking 100% employment ranking?? Instead, they ask judges and employers to rate their perception of the products of these schools. They try to rate the faculty. And ya, they take a look at the fucking incoming product because it's pretty easy to see that if one school, on average, has a bunch of dopes attending and the other doesn't, the fact that they aren't in competitive markets doesn't preclude reaching a conclusion. They try to gauge the respective quality of the school's infrastructure and commitment to research by looking at the size of the library (volumes is an imprecise measure, but whatever). The fact that they attempt to do this for everyone, for their magazine, doesn't make the whole thing a failure.

3. :lol: There's a raw score you fucking moron
4. :lol: it's a failure that the magazine doesn't do a more in-depth analysis of each 2-3 swap? Mr. "only 18%" is upset that the magazine doesn't explain with data graphics somewhere what the most heavily involved coefficient contributing to each swap.
5. ok ya i agree this is dumb. what failures.


This post kinda makes you look like a whiny bitch.

+1

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:50 am

Would be interesting to see for the second and third schools how many are geographically adjacent to that school's home state. I'd think that for the T-14 the breakdown would be NY, DC, CA, IL.l, but for others it would be all regional.

User avatar
Glacial
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:47 pm

Re: US News Law School Rankings -- 5 Failures

Postby Glacial » Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:15 am

I don't know about you, but I thought it would be interesting to see how the T14 schools did in the USNWR rankings since 1990.

Average overall rank 1990-2017 (March, 2016):
1. Yale 1.0
2. Harvard 2.33
3. Stanford 2.51
4. Columbia 4.37
5. Chicago 4.85
6. NYU 5.51
7. Michigan 7.88
8. Penn 8.40
9. UVA 8.48
10. Berkeley 9.18
11. Duke 9.88
12. NW 11.85
13. Cornell 12.44
14. GT 13.22

Average overall rank 1990-2000:
1. Yale 1.0
2. Harvard 2.1
3. Stanford 2.8
4. Chicago 3.9
5. Columbia 4.8
6. NYU 6.0
7. Michigan 7.2
8. Duke 8.6
9. UVA 8.7
10. Penn 10.1
11. Berkeley 10.5
12. GT 12.1
13. Cornell 12.5
14. NW 12.6

Average overall rank 2001-2010:
1. Yale 1.0
2. Stanford 2.3 (+0.5)
3. Harvard 2.5 (-0.4)
4. Columbia 4.2 (+0.6)
5. NYU 4.7 (+1.3)
6. Chicago 6.1 (-2.2)
7. Michigan 7.7 (-0.5)
8. Penn 7.9 (+2.2)
9. UVA 8.5 (+0.2)
10. Berkeley 8.6 (+1.9)
11. Duke 10.8 (-2.2)
12. NW 11.1 (+1.5)
13. Cornell 11.9 (+0.6)
14. GT 14.0 (-1.9)

Average overall rank 2011-2017:
1. Yale 1.0
2. Harvard 2.14 (+0.36)
3. Stanford 2.43 (-0.13)
4. Columbia 4.00 (+0.2)
5. Chicago 4.42 (+1.68)
6. NYU 6.00 (-1.3)
7. Penn 7.00 (+0.9)
8. Berkeley 8.14 (+0.46)
9. UVA 8.14 (+0.36)
10. Michigan 9.14 (-1.44)
11. Duke 10.42 (+0.32)
12. NW 11.85 (-0.75)
13. Cornell 13.14 (-1.24)
14. GT 13.71 (+0.29)

Change (+/-):
1. Penn +3.10
2. Berkeley +2.36
3. Columbia +0.80
4. NW +0.75
5. UVA +0.56
6. Stanford +0.37
7. NYU 0
8. Yale 0
9. Harvard -0.04
10. Chicago -0.52
11. Cornell -0.64
12. GT -1.61
13. Duke -1.88
14 Michigan -1.94




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lsa16 and 1 guest