Please help this splitter out

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Splitter101
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:09 am

Please help this splitter out

Postby Splitter101 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:29 am

-Admitted: Cornell (no offer yet), Vandy (no offer yet), WashU ($$$ but not a full ride)
Waitlisted: Penn, Columbia, Michigan, Duke
Pending: UVA, NYU, NU
- COA: Here's where things get tricky. My parents are fairly well off and I anticipated them loaning me a decent chunk of my tuition. However, my dad recently left/was politely pushed out of his job. They've been incredibly smart with saving and investing so they'll be fine, but as of now I can't rely with certainty on their help. He's relatively young and in a safe field, but he could be out of work for a while.
- So i'll be paying primarily with loans. I have no undergrad debt and anticipate 8-10k in savings when I start law school, to be used for books and living expenses my first semester.
- East coast. Philly is my home market and would be ideal, but NYC is a close second. Chicago would be doable.
- Biglaw. On the off chance I don't totally hate it i'll stay but I assume i'll be miserable and want out in 3-5.
- 172 LSAT. 3.2-3.5 GPA
- Taken LSAT one time. Was PTing at a 167-170 before I sat for the test. 172 was somewhat lucky.
-Tall/attractive/sociable/normal. Douchey thing to say but everything I've read seems to indicate it matters at OCI so

I know this post is early without knowing all my options but it's March now and things are starting to get real. I love Cornell more everyday and I really like Ithaca but I realize how bad that much debt could be. On the flip side, even if I could negotiate a full ride at WashU the chances of not finding a job, much less a job I want, are even scarier to me then the debt. I have zero career prospects. Any input is helpful, be as mean as you want.

User avatar
amw342
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:54 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby amw342 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:36 am

Splitter101 wrote:-Admitted: Cornell (no offer yet), Vandy (no offer yet), WashU ($$$ but not a full ride)
Waitlisted: Penn, Columbia, Michigan, Duke
Pending: UVA, NYU, NU
- COA: Here's where things get tricky. My parents are fairly well off and I anticipated them loaning me a decent chunk of my tuition. However, my dad recently left/was politely pushed out of his job. They've been incredibly smart with saving and investing so they'll be fine, but as of now I can't rely with certainty on their help. He's relatively young and in a safe field, but he could be out of work for a while.
- So i'll be paying primarily with loans. I have no undergrad debt and anticipate 8-10k in savings when I start law school, to be used for books and living expenses my first semester.
- East coast. Philly is my home market and would be ideal, but NYC is a close second. Chicago would be doable.
- Biglaw. On the off chance I don't totally hate it i'll stay but I assume i'll be miserable and want out in 3-5.
- 172 LSAT. 3.2-3.5 GPA
- Taken LSAT one time. Was PTing at a 167-170 before I sat for the test. 172 was somewhat lucky.
-Tall/attractive/sociable/normal. Douchey thing to say but everything I've read seems to indicate it matters at OCI so

I know this post is early without knowing all my options but it's March now and things are starting to get real. I love Cornell more everyday and I really like Ithaca but I realize how bad that much debt could be. On the flip side, even if I could negotiate a full ride at WashU the chances of not finding a job, much less a job I want, are even scarier to me then the debt. I have zero career prospects. Any input is helpful, be as mean as you want.


Be patient and wait for Cornell. They should be giving out scholarships sometime this month. Be sure you hand in their financial aid information sheet as well.

User avatar
DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby DoveBodyWash » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:41 am

Why do you have zero career prospects? Is it because you've actually been looking and haven't found anything or because you think you don't and thus don't look? But as a splitter i'm not sure how much value there is in taking time off to retake, i don't think getting higher than 172 is going to make a difference given your GPA. I was 175/3.2 and i had somewhat similar options to you as a 0L (WUSTL, Penn, NU, Vandy)

I don't think you'll get much money from Vandy, your LSAT is high enough that it's beyond of the zone of scores that they're willing to pay for. You might get something from some of the T14's though depending on how much they need your LSAT. I could see NU or UVA giving you some money, especially if you're willing to negotiate deeper into the cycle (which may require paying multiple deposits around May)

I was at WUSTL with full ride and I agree that the value of a free J.D. (although not truly free cuz of COL and time) diminishes in the face of uncertain/unsatisfactory opportunities. But i think most of the people on this site would argue that it's best to hedge, which is what i did when faced with T14 at sticker and WUSTL for free.

Splitter101
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:09 am

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby Splitter101 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:48 am

cusenation wrote:Why do you have zero career prospects? Is it because you've actually been looking and haven't found anything or because you think you don't and thus don't look? But as a splitter i'm not sure how much value there is in taking time off to retake, i don't think getting higher than 172 is going to make a difference given your GPA. I was 175/3.2 and i had somewhat similar options to you as a 0L (WUSTL, Penn, NU, Vandy)

I don't think you'll get much money from Vandy, your LSAT is high enough that it's beyond of the zone of scores that they're willing to pay for. You might get something from some of the T14's though depending on how much they need your LSAT. I could see NU or UVA giving you some money, especially if you're willing to negotiate deeper into the cycle (which may require paying multiple deposits around May)

I was at WUSTL with full ride and I agree that the value of a free J.D. (although not truly free cuz of COL and time) diminishes in the face of uncertain/unsatisfactory opportunities. But i think most of the people on this site would argue that it's best to hedge, which is what i did when faced with T14 at sticker and WUSTL for free.


Bad degree from a state school. I've actually been working full time since my sophomore year of college, but in a non-professional field with very low earnings potential. I have no office experience. Started an internship/volunteer gig at a legal non-profit recently and I couldn't figure out how to work the copier :roll: .

How did you hedge? Went to WUSTL and then transferred? I mean that's still a hell of a risk isn't it? If I end up below the median at Cornell I might still be able to secure a gig through OCI. If I end up below the median at WUSTL i'm totally screwed aren't I?

User avatar
DoveBodyWash
Posts: 3087
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby DoveBodyWash » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:00 am

Splitter101 wrote:
cusenation wrote:Why do you have zero career prospects? Is it because you've actually been looking and haven't found anything or because you think you don't and thus don't look? But as a splitter i'm not sure how much value there is in taking time off to retake, i don't think getting higher than 172 is going to make a difference given your GPA. I was 175/3.2 and i had somewhat similar options to you as a 0L (WUSTL, Penn, NU, Vandy)

I don't think you'll get much money from Vandy, your LSAT is high enough that it's beyond of the zone of scores that they're willing to pay for. You might get something from some of the T14's though depending on how much they need your LSAT. I could see NU or UVA giving you some money, especially if you're willing to negotiate deeper into the cycle (which may require paying multiple deposits around May)

I was at WUSTL with full ride and I agree that the value of a free J.D. (although not truly free cuz of COL and time) diminishes in the face of uncertain/unsatisfactory opportunities. But i think most of the people on this site would argue that it's best to hedge, which is what i did when faced with T14 at sticker and WUSTL for free.


Bad degree from a state school. I've actually been working full time since my sophomore year of college, but in a non-professional field with very low earnings potential. I have no office experience. Started an internship/volunteer gig at a legal non-profit recently and I couldn't figure out how to work the copier :roll: .

How did you hedge? Went to WUSTL and then transferred? I mean that's still a hell of a risk isn't it? If I end up below the median at Cornell I might still be able to secure a gig through OCI. If I end up below the median at WUSTL i'm totally screwed aren't I?


1. Went to WUSTL and ended up transferring to UChicago, but it wasn't a calculated decision at the outset. I didn't even know transferring was a thing until a few months into 1L and even then it wasn't clear that it would be a good option until during the summer before 2L. I waited until i saw which Chicago firms preselected me from WUSTL's OCI before making the decision. Only got preselected by a firm that's considered to be on the decline and didn't really do the type of work I wanted to do and the smaller office of a firm based elsewhere, so I made the jump and got offers from firms that didn't even want to meet me when i was at WUSTL.

2. Not sure what Cornell prospects are like but i don't know if below median is necessarily secure for BigLaw. It might be secure for a BigLaw offer of some kind, but not all BigLaw is created equal. Once you consider practice, geographic, and exit preferences, the margin for error gets slimmer even at the upper T14's. But yeah at WUSTL you'd have to be top 20% to be considered in the secure zone for SOMETHING (remember not all BigLaw is equal). Some people will say top third is secure because occasionally someone in that zone will get BigLaw and because top third is first cut-off that the school releases, but it's a myth. Lower grades can be offset by deep ties if you're gunning for a secondary market (e.g. St. Louis) but top third is not secure at all, especially now that WUSTL's class sizes are increasing again.

3. Yeah i mean they're different types of risk i guess and it depends on what you value more. Would you rather have a job that you don't want for some reason but with minimal debt or a job you want but with lots of debt? Most TLS-ers will say that BigLaw with lots of debt is still a shitty outcome due to demanding hours and likelihood of leaving BigLaw before it becomes profitable and therefore a riskier risk than not-so-great job with minimal debt. And really i'm not sure if there's a right answer because it depends on what you want out of your career and what actually ends up happening over the course of your career. You can only answer the former and no one can predict the latter.

Splitter101
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:09 am

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby Splitter101 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:16 am

cusenation wrote:
Splitter101 wrote:
cusenation wrote:Why do you have zero career prospects? Is it because you've actually been looking and haven't found anything or because you think you don't and thus don't look? But as a splitter i'm not sure how much value there is in taking time off to retake, i don't think getting higher than 172 is going to make a difference given your GPA. I was 175/3.2 and i had somewhat similar options to you as a 0L (WUSTL, Penn, NU, Vandy)

I don't think you'll get much money from Vandy, your LSAT is high enough that it's beyond of the zone of scores that they're willing to pay for. You might get something from some of the T14's though depending on how much they need your LSAT. I could see NU or UVA giving you some money, especially if you're willing to negotiate deeper into the cycle (which may require paying multiple deposits around May)

I was at WUSTL with full ride and I agree that the value of a free J.D. (although not truly free cuz of COL and time) diminishes in the face of uncertain/unsatisfactory opportunities. But i think most of the people on this site would argue that it's best to hedge, which is what i did when faced with T14 at sticker and WUSTL for free.


Bad degree from a state school. I've actually been working full time since my sophomore year of college, but in a non-professional field with very low earnings potential. I have no office experience. Started an internship/volunteer gig at a legal non-profit recently and I couldn't figure out how to work the copier :roll: .

How did you hedge? Went to WUSTL and then transferred? I mean that's still a hell of a risk isn't it? If I end up below the median at Cornell I might still be able to secure a gig through OCI. If I end up below the median at WUSTL i'm totally screwed aren't I?


1. Went to WUSTL and ended up transferring to UChicago, but it wasn't a calculated decision at the outset. I didn't even know transferring was a thing until a few months into 1L and even then it wasn't clear that it would be a good option until during the summer before 2L. I waited until i saw which Chicago firms preselected me from WUSTL's OCI before making the decision. Only got preselected by a firm that's considered to be on the decline and didn't really do the type of work I wanted to do and the smaller office of a firm based elsewhere, so I made the jump and got offers from firms that didn't even want to meet me when i was at WUSTL.

2. Not sure what Cornell prospects are like but i don't know if below median is necessarily secure for BigLaw. It might be secure for a BigLaw offer of some kind, but not all BigLaw is created equal. Once you consider practice, geographic, and exit preferences, the margin for error gets slimmer even at the upper T14's. But yeah at WUSTL you'd have to be top 20% to be considered in the secure zone for SOMETHING (remember not all BigLaw is equal). Some people will say top third is okay, but that's a myth. Lower grades can be offset by deep ties if you're gunning for a secondary market (e.g. St. Louis) but top third is not secure at all, especially now that WUSTL's class sizes are increasing again.

3. Yeah i mean they're different types of risk i guess and it depends on what you value more. Would you rather have a job that you don't want for some reason but with minimal debt or a job you want but with lots of debt? Most TLS-ers will say that BigLaw with lots of debt is still a shitty outcome due to demanding hours and likelihood of leaving BigLaw before it becomes profitable and therefore a riskier risk than not-so-great job with minimal debt. And really i'm not sure if there's a right answer because it depends on what you want out of your career and what actually ends up happening over the course of your career. You can only answer the former and no one can predict the latter.



Thank you for helping me out. I can't find the link right now but Cornell seriously outperforms its ranking in terms of BigLaw placement. IIRC it's right beyond Chicago/Penn/NYU. I want to work in the northeast, I don't have ties anywhere else, and there just doesn't seem to be that sweet spot regional school located where I want to practice that will offer me good money and good placement prospects in what I want. Also, i'd never admit this in person but i'm kind of shallow. Going to Cornell and then working in Manhattan really appeals to me because it will impress other people, including my family, friends, and girls. I know that sounds terrible but it's a reality.

User avatar
forza
Posts: 2777
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:32 am

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby forza » Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:09 am

Splitter101 wrote:Going to Cornell and then working in Manhattan really appeals to me because it will impress other people, including my family, friends, and girls. I know that sounds terrible but it's a reality.


Wow, you're going to nail your callbacks.

"So, why'd you go to law school?"

"For the chicks, man."

User avatar
Winston1984
Posts: 1789
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby Winston1984 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:05 am

We also need more information about attractiveness. What are your PRs in bench, squat, and deadlift?

User avatar
Hikikomorist
Posts: 3064
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:19 am

Winston1984 wrote:We also need more information about attractiveness. What are your PRs in bench, squat, and deadlift?


Those seem like poor measures. OP should send his picture to a website where people already deemed attractive approve or disapprove of him joining them.

User avatar
MagicMike80
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby MagicMike80 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:54 am

You have plenty of career prospects!

If you want Philly, should probably hold out for t14 money. If youre okay with NYC, going to wash u for free isn't a horrible bet - as long as you dont care what biglaw shop you end up at. It's pretty hard to tell as a 0L if youre going to enjoy legal work enough to stay in biglaw drudgery for long enough for it to be "profitable." But if the point is one night stand with babes who think you actually work in finance, then you don't care about long term savings.

User avatar
earthabides
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:48 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby earthabides » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:57 am

Hikkomorist wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:We also need more information about attractiveness. What are your PRs in bench, squat, and deadlift?


Those seem like poor measures. OP should send his picture to a website where people already deemed attractive approve or disapprove of him joining them.


http://www.beautifulpeople.com

User avatar
Hikikomorist
Posts: 3064
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Please help this splitter out

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:40 pm

earthabides wrote:
Hikkomorist wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:We also need more information about attractiveness. What are your PRs in bench, squat, and deadlift?


Those seem like poor measures. OP should send his picture to a website where people already deemed attractive approve or disapprove of him joining them.


http://www.beautifulpeople.com


Thanks for being less lazy than I am.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LarryFlint, mudiverse and 4 guests