UCLA v Michigan

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UCLA $$$ or Michigan Sticker

Total votes: 30

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UCLA v Michigan

Postby giantswan » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:36 pm

Last edited by giantswan on Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:47 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby The Dark Shepard » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:58 pm

Based off of your estimates, I'm assuming you don't have a full-ride at UCLA? With enough T14 acceptances you may be able to negotiate up to that. If that happens, I think that is TCR

Also, do you have ties to Seattle? From what I understand, that market is VERY insular

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby thatsnotmyname » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:05 pm

I'm not sure I understand how an LSAT retake could help you get pulled off the waitlists at CCN down since your LSAT is already over the 75th percentile everywhere except for Yale and Harvard. I guess if you have nothing but time on your hands, it can't hurt, but I'm not sure I understand how a higher LSAT score would help your situation. To be quite honest, I don't think a 179 would get you pulled off of any of the waitlists or get UCLA to get you any more money considering how far above all of the 75th percentiles you already are... maybe a 180 will give you some sort of unicorn status that will be appealing to schools? I'm not sure if that's true or if that's even the thought process. Either way I think there are probably a lot better and more enjoyable ways you could spend your free time than studying to retake a 174 unless you really enjoy studying for the LSAT.

The user above suggested trying to leverage your T14 acceptances into a better scholarship at UCLA and I think you would probably have more success with that than trying to leverage a higher LSAT. Does UCLA know that you're seriously considering taking Michigan's offer even though it sounds like you'd rather be in LA? It might be worth trying to discuss your scholarship concerns and your Michigan offer with them.

Anyhoo, I would definitely take UCLA $$$ over Michigan especially considering the fact that LA is your target market. Looking at LST, UCLA has 40% BL+FC vs. Michigan having 57%. I'm not sure what that approximately 17% difference into BigLaw placement is worth to you.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby Nomo » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:18 pm

129k for UCLA is expensive, probably a little too expensive. You're looking at paying about 1.5k per month for 10 years. That's going to be tough without biglaw (or midlaw) and you're probably not getting biglaw (and almost certainly not getting midlaw).

Michigan gives you a better shot at biglaw, but at sticker its just crazy.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby giantswan » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:30 am

The Dark Shepard wrote:Based off of your estimates, I'm assuming you don't have a full-ride at UCLA? With enough T14 acceptances you may be able to negotiate up to that. If that happens, I think that is TCR

Also, do you have ties to Seattle? From what I understand, that market is VERY insular

I don't have a full ride. Even if I negotiate up to a full-ride (which I am not sure I can do) with tuition increases and living expenses in LA I will still be taking out a decent amount of loans.

Does living there for two years count as ties? That's pretty much all I have. That and a couple Sounders scarves on my wall :)

As for the thing about taking the LSAT not being helpful - I'm aware a few points don't make a huge difference at my level, which is why I wouldn't wait out the cycle. The retake is free however so to me the time is worth the minuscule chance that it may help with waitlists (if only for the reason that it would give me another excuse to send a letter to a school) or negotiation. Plus I was working two jobs when I studied for the LSAT so honestly it would be a little fun to do it right. Really I just mentioned retaking in case anyone found it relevant.

I suppose this thread is really about me needing people to talk me out of choosing Michigan.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby runinthefront » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:28 am

84.4% of the c/o 2013 (who were employed) ended up in CA from UCLA. About 5% ended up in NYC and 3% ended up in DC. I'm assuming most of the kids who go to UCLA want to practice in CA first, so take that data for what it's worth.

A retake wouldn't help you here, and you seem like you've already been out of school for a few years so I'm not sure how much sitting out would help you, either. If you could wait out a few more years and save some money + add more work experience, that would probably help you almost every T14 school,but I understand if you choose not to.

I don't think either school at either price is a wise option for your primary goals (Seattle BL/LA BL), and I would probably would opt for a lower ranked CA school on a full-ride (if possible), forgoing any hopes of BL and my first few primary career choices but ending up as a lawyer relatively debt free.

The chances of biglaw coming from UCLA are not too hot but not terrible and the alternative is....welp, there's no alternative (please don't pay $200k to any school).

Gun to my head, UCLA. But you should make sure you're comfortable with the non-negligible possibility to end up with $130k in debt and "any job in LA/Seattle."
Last edited by runinthefront on Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby Big Dog » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:45 am

retake won' help with those WL's, but a pithy letter can.

UCLA is not gonna help much for Seattle, which is a pretty insular market. Mich is probably a better bet for the PNC, but not at sticker.

OTOH, UCLA places strong in SoCal. Did you apply to 'SC or Vandy which you could use for $$ leverage? Or Northwestern?

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:34 am

Voted UCLA. Better for your goals than sticker at Michigan, probably a coin flip chance at a large firm in southern california. Good luck

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby giantswan » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:48 am

I've already taken some time off and can't really afford to take any more. Anyway I'm not exactly in a position to secure a job in which I would be able to save a significant amount of money for law school.

Also can we just forget I mentioned the retake? That seems to be more of a distraction than anything else.

I do have a few other schools I applied to that I planned on negotiating with but based on my other offers and LSN I'm not sure I'll be able to get UCLA to go very much higher.

And if anyone that voted Michigan is willing to share why they think it's a better option I'd love to hear the reasoning.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby 2014 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:58 am

Retaking doesn't make sense, 174 is fine it's obviously your GPA holding you back. Application #s have to stop falling at some point too and at that point it gets marginally more competitive.

Michigan sticker makes no sense at all in light of their last 2 maybe 3 years of employment data. They are placing closer to GULC than Penn and that's dangerous to pay full price for that. For your goals I'd say CCNP and maybe UVA sticker MIGHT make sense (w/ a preference to Chicago because of slightly higher Cali placement) but it's risky. Duke and Cornell seem as foolish as Michigan for your goals.

In light of current options I'd take UCLA (and I think that COA is perfectly reasonable for UCLA) and would only 2nd guess if I got into one of CCNP and maybe UVA. Probably would then take UCLA anyway.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby thebobs1987 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:59 am

Did you apply to NU? with that LSAT and work experience I would imagine they would throw money your way. That would be better than Michigan at sticker and probably just as good as Michigan if not better at getting you back to Seattle. If not, I would ask Michigan for money and hope they give you 15-20k a year to make it doable.

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Re: UCLA $$$ v Michigan Sticker (174/3.1X)

Postby AT9 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:17 pm

If Seattle is the preferred location, why isn't UW an option? I'm not super familiar with the West Coast market, but I would think a desire to practice in Seattle + UW with $$$ would be a better or just as good option as UCLA at that price or Michigan at sticker. Perhaps I'm wrong there...I suppose it depends on how strong your preference is for Seattle over LA. If not that strong, then I'd vote UCLA if you can get the cost down a little (I personally wouldn't do UCLA for more than around $100K, but I'm pretty debt averse).

Sure as hell wouldn't do Michigan at sticker.

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