Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

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scentwork2014
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Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:00 pm

Hi Everyone,

I'm wondering if you can offer advice on what might be my best option.

I've gotten into Washburn with a great scholarship that would pay most of tuition.
I'm waiting to hear back from Oklahoma and Tulsa, but they were kind of reach schools so I'm not anticipating great scholarships if I've been accepted.
I've been admitted to Wyoming but have not received word on financial aid.
I've gotten into South Dakota but wouldn't choose it over Washburn.

I'm 30, have about 110k in undergrad/master's debt, and am interested in working in either federal law enforcement or as a prosecutor. However, I would also consider a career in oil/gas law. I'd like to get into school and see what I'm excited about before I make a decision. As of right now, though, I don't have an interest in big law.

I'm wondering if a Washburn degree will be restrictive in the sense of moving around. I'm originally from the east coast, and while I fell in love with the midwest during my graduate work, I don't want to be prohibited from moving around. If I wanted to move to Mass at some point, for example, will a Washburn degree be a hindrance? Would that not be the case if I had a degree from Wyoming/OU/Tulsa? I'm living in southern colorado now and don't have a huge interest in living in Laramie, but it's doable. I'd rather be in Topeka or Oklahoma.

I had a 152/3.2 from undergrad, 3.3 masters, one year social sciences doctoral study.

Thanks in advance!

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romothesavior
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:05 pm

None of those schools will give you the geographic flexibility you seek, and none of those schools are worth going to without a full ride. And the odds of getting a federal prosecutor job from any of those schools are remote.

These are very regional schools with marginal placement power. They might be decent options if they are free and you are planning to target their local markets, but they are horrible options given your stated goals. Also, you already have a lot of debt. Taking on more for law school at this stage of your life is financially inadvisable.

Again, if you can score a full ride and will practice in that local market, fine. Otherwise, retake or don't go.

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Winston1984
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby Winston1984 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:34 pm

romothesavior wrote:None of those schools will give you the geographic flexibility you seek, and none of those schools are worth going to without a full ride. And the odds of getting a federal prosecutor job from any of those schools are remote.

These are very regional schools with marginal placement power. They might be decent options if they are free and you are planning to target their local markets, but they are horrible options given your stated goals. Also, you already have a lot of debt. Taking on more for law school at this stage of your life is financially inadvisable.

Again, if you can score a full ride and will practice in that local market, fine. Otherwise, retake or don't go.

scentwork2014
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:38 pm

Thanks, Romo. I wouldn't be seeking a federal prosecutor position out of the gate, but rather something at the state or county level. I'm OK with working in the region for a while, I like it, but would like to have options for a mid-career move if that's what comes up. All of my family is out east.

timbs4339
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:39 pm

Holy crap that is a lot of preexisting debt. What's the debt going to look like from each of these schools at the end of three years?

In terms of prosecutor jobs, what you need to understand is that these schools place locally and do local law. If you become a county prosecutor in one of these states, then your substantive legal knowledge is not going to be transferable to other states because you are going to need to learn completely different doctrines of evidence, criminal procedure, and crimes/sentencing. And I seriously doubt that a lot of people move from a county prosecutor's office to the DOJ.

scentwork2014
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:45 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Holy crap that is a lot of preexisting debt. What's the debt going to look like from each of these schools at the end of three years?

In terms of prosecutor jobs, what you need to understand is that these schools place locally and do local law. If you become a county prosecutor in one of these states, then your substantive legal knowledge is not going to be transferable to other states because you are going to need to learn completely different doctrines of evidence, criminal procedure, and crimes/sentencing. And I seriously doubt that a lot of people move from a county prosecutor's office to the DOJ.


Washburn would have the least, I would probably finance another 50-60k with living expenses. Wyoming/OU would be closer to 100. Thanks for advice re: prosecutor positions. The nuts and bolts of it are new to me. The debt isn't something that's completely scaring me. My degrees right now are the the social sciences, one from a top-30 school, and they haven't help in getting any jobs. I'd rather be working in debt than being un/deremployed with less debt.

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romothesavior
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:52 pm

If you said you wanted to work in Wyoming/Oklahoma/Tulsa/etc. as a local prosecutor and you had ties there and could go for free, I would say go for it. But your goals are going to be exceptionally difficult to obtain from these schools. (I hesitate to say impossible because some asshole will chime in with an anecdote about his brother going to Oklahoma and getting a gig as a federal prosecutor on the east coast or something, but the odds are miniscule.) If you want a good shot at an east coast job or a federal gig, you need a better school. Which means you need to retake, because that LSAT score isn't doing you any favors.

Also, that debtload is a beast. You really need to think about what kind of life you're going to have with $200k in debt and a Washburn degree and a $40k salary. Is that going to be worth it to you? I have less debt and a much higher salary, and I can tell you the debt is a huge weight on me financially.

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romothesavior
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:52 pm

Speaking of the LSAT, how many times have you taken it and what did you do to prepare?

You would be shocked at what your outcomes can look like with a great study plan and the right resources. Here's one of countless success stories.

scentwork2014
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:57 pm

romothesavior wrote:Speaking of the LSAT, how many times have you taken it and what did you do to prepare?


Took twice, didn't study the first time (152), studied quite a bit the second time (150).

sunflowergal
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby sunflowergal » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:58 pm

I attended one of these schools, 2012 graduate, and can give you some insight into your prosepcts for at least that school. Feel free to PM me. I am a federal employee, but am the exception and not the rule.

timbs4339
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:12 pm

So we're talking at least 175K of debt at the end of it? Closer to 200K?

Look, if you wanted it you might be able to land a gig at a local prosecutor's office in Kansas or the surrounding states. I say might because apparently the governor is seriously fucking up the state's finances so they may not have any money to hire entry-level lawyers. But understand that your salary is going to probably be around 40-50K, so you will have to rely on PSLF. And that's going to lock you into government employment for at least 10 years. But there are some caveats:

-While you are on PSLF, interest will be accruing on your loans much faster than you can pay it. So by year 3-5 when you have enough experience to lateral to maybe a higher paid (75-95K) private sector job, the debt has going to have ballooned probably to well over 200K. This means that if you are expecting that a JD will increase your flexibility, you are wrong, since with that amount of debt you are going to have to hope you can keep a PSLF-qualifying job for 10 years.
-There are serious proposals on the table to amend the PSLF program so that high-debt borrowers (this means you) are only eligible for partial debt forgiveness. This is Obama's opening proposal, not the Republicans, who if they had their way would have you scourged. You should look into these proposals since you are the exact type of student that they are intending to reduce benefits for, and still decide if you'd rather try to get a job that is eligible for better terms now rather than adding debt after these proposals pass.

scentwork2014
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:45 pm

Thank you for the replies, everyone!

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cal2013
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby cal2013 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:24 pm

Did you self study?

If so, I might recommend doing a structured course (Blueprint, Kaplan, Testmasters, etc.) and retaking.

scentwork2014
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:30 pm

cal2013 wrote:Did you self study?

If so, I might recommend doing a structured course (Blueprint, Kaplan, Testmasters, etc.) and retaking.


I did - I used the powerscore books. Realistically, with my undergraduate GPA I'd have a hard time breaking into the top or second tier schools. I don't want to wait another application cycle to apply, either.

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UnderTheLaw
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby UnderTheLaw » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:33 pm

I took the LSAT three times.

Please retake

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Winston1984
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby Winston1984 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:51 pm

cal2013 wrote:Did you self study?

If so, I might recommend doing a structured course (Blueprint, Kaplan, Testmasters, etc.) and retaking.

Kaplan is garbage. Idk about the others, but I think you can get where you need to be through self studying. Structured courses seem pretty expensive.

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UnderTheLaw
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby UnderTheLaw » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:55 pm

Winston1984 wrote: Structured courses seem pretty expensive.


While I agree... I also think that if they end up landing someone a solid LSAT score and a significant scholarship it was a pretty awesome investment.

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cal2013
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby cal2013 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:17 am

Winston1984 wrote:
cal2013 wrote:Did you self study?

If so, I might recommend doing a structured course (Blueprint, Kaplan, Testmasters, etc.) and retaking.

Kaplan is garbage. Idk about the others, but I think you can get where you need to be through self studying. Structured courses seem pretty expensive.


I think it just depends on the person. I self-studied the first time I took it, but I just didn't do very well.

I took Blueprint, and while it is not cheap at ~$1500, the resulting score increase was worth tens of thousands of dollars in schollies. It's probably not the best option for everyone, but just throwing it out there if OP has hit a wall in self-studying.

lawschoolbound94
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby lawschoolbound94 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:51 pm

The only two I've heard of are Wyoming and Oklahoma.

Where do you want to work?

I would go to Wyoming. But strongly consider retaking, or apply to some other schools.

Since you said you live in Colorado, have you tried some Colorado schools? But to get U Colorado you would need a 160 at least.

scentwork2014
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby scentwork2014 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:55 pm

lawschoolbound94 wrote:The only two I've heard of are Wyoming and Oklahoma.

Where do you want to work?

I would go to Wyoming. But strongly consider retaking, or apply to some other schools.

Since you said you live in Colorado, have you tried some Colorado schools? But to get U Colorado you would need a 160 at least.


I'd like to work in the Midwest, somewhere between SD and Texas. Colorado/Wyoming is a bit further west than I'd like. I enjoy the plains. I am considering Wyoming and am waiting to hear about any financial rewards.

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PhilippeStandingOnIt
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby PhilippeStandingOnIt » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:06 pm

cal2013 wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:
cal2013 wrote:Did you self study?

If so, I might recommend doing a structured course (Blueprint, Kaplan, Testmasters, etc.) and retaking.

Kaplan is garbage. Idk about the others, but I think you can get where you need to be through self studying. Structured courses seem pretty expensive.


I think it just depends on the person. I self-studied the first time I took it, but I just didn't do very well.

I took Blueprint, and while it is not cheap at ~$1500, the resulting score increase was worth tens of thousands of dollars in schollies. It's probably not the best option for everyone, but just throwing it out there if OP has hit a wall in self-studying.


+1 to Blueprint. Huge fan here.

AReasonableMan
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Re: Washburn, OU, Tulsa, Wyoming

Postby AReasonableMan » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:58 pm

Something that should be considered is that if an individual can't turn a masters into a 40k a year job then it's pretty naive to anticipate they will turn a 4th-tier degree into a 40k a year job. I understand social science masters aren't incredibly valuable, but they have some value where as a law degree in Wyoming for an individual who isn't from Wyoming might have the value of a Starbucks gift card.




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