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twenty wrote:Your numbers aren't bad, but sticker at UVA is not a good plan. Your numbers will probably get you lots of money at a strong regional school - what geographic area are you?

HomericVoice wrote:I am thinking of ED-ing to UVA with an LSAT of 169 and a GPA of 3.49. I have an undergraduate degree (in English) from a relatively unknown state school. I have a master's degree (again, in English) from a well-known private school. I've been teaching at the community college level for a few years, and the pay is garbage. My pre-tax salary is about $33k. I can manage a few bonuses here and there for summer teaching, but those teaching opportunities are never guaranteed from year to year. If I decide to work here (or at a peer institution) for the long haul, I might work for another ten years before seeing a raise to, say, 45k. I have colleagues who've worked here since the 70s and now make about 52-53k.

There are elements of the job I enjoy; of course, there are elements of the job I hate. The philosophy of Common Core is invading the community college scene, so the freedom to do what I want in the classroom is being shut down. In other words, what I like about the job is being taken away from me and it's not going to get better from here.

It takes about 6 years to earn a Ph.D. in English, and that's followed by a job market that rivals that of law. That's not an option in my book.

Almost everything I read on TLS says that UVA at sticker would be absolutely insane. I'm thinking, though, if I get Big Law (big if, I know), then after taxes, student loan payments, living expenses?--I'd still be making a hell of a lot more money than I am now, and I'd have better prospects for the rest of my life.

What do you all think? Am I crazy for thinking about the gamble?

Ehh, for what it's worth, I've taken the LSAT four times. I think a 169 is about the ceiling for me.

HomericVoice wrote:

twenty wrote:Your numbers aren't bad, but sticker at UVA is not a good plan. Your numbers will probably get you lots of money at a strong regional school - what geographic area are you?

I'm in the Southeast.

zacharus85 wrote:GULC evening student here (paying full sticker - we don't even get to apply for financial aid). I am somewhat baffled by the strong discouragement here. I (and the vast majority of my peers) did quite well at OCI (and I was only looking at DC firms - a decently hard market to get into). I imagine I'd have had an even easier time if I had been at UVA (Does anyone seriously dispute that UVA provides better hiring options than GULC?)

The caveats others posted above absolutely apply: you have to be sure you want to practice in a big firm for 3+ years (let's face it, though, 5+ is more likely the necessity). You also have to play the odds - you need to get good enough grades to compete for the top jobs, you'll need to be sure you can hack it at the firm you'll be joining, and you better be confident that the jobs will even be there (the legal profession isn't exactly in a boom time these days).

So yes, you will be taking on a risk - and you will be betting a mortgage's worth of money in so doing. BUT if you are going to UVA, have life/work experience that your K-JD peers do not, and have done some reasonable degree of research beforehand about your career planning, the odds will be quite favorable. Nobody got anywhere financially without taking some risks (absent being born into wealth/privilege) - a UVA JD puts you in a better position than many.

Ron Don Volante wrote:I think Vanderbilt (or maybe UT) would be a good option here. It'll be a lot cheaper than UVA and the biglaw chances are still pretty solid. It's a lot less risk for a pretty good shot at the same reward.

BigZuck wrote:

Ron Don Volante wrote:I think Vanderbilt (or maybe UT) would be a good option here. It'll be a lot cheaper than UVA and the biglaw chances are still pretty solid. It's a lot less risk for a pretty good shot at the same reward.

He's probably going to have to gun for NYC

That's doable from median at UVA. I think it would be generous to say that's doable with top 25% at UT/Vandy (er, well, UT at least, maybe it's easier at Vandy, a Vandy student would have to confirm). And there is a pretty solid gap between median and top 25% grades.

Obviously we would have to see the numbers but I'm not sure that Vandy with 45K or so would be better than UVA sticker here. Saving 50-60K might not be worth the sizeable hit to big law chances and he's going to be buried by debt either way.

eriedoctrine wrote:

zacharus85 wrote:GULC evening student here (paying full sticker - we don't even get to apply for financial aid). I am somewhat baffled by the strong discouragement here. I (and the vast majority of my peers) did quite well at OCI (and I was only looking at DC firms - a decently hard market to get into). I imagine I'd have had an even easier time if I had been at UVA (Does anyone seriously dispute that UVA provides better hiring options than GULC?)

The caveats others posted above absolutely apply: you have to be sure you want to practice in a big firm for 3+ years (let's face it, though, 5+ is more likely the necessity). You also have to play the odds - you need to get good enough grades to compete for the top jobs, you'll need to be sure you can hack it at the firm you'll be joining, and you better be confident that the jobs will even be there (the legal profession isn't exactly in a boom time these days).

So yes, you will be taking on a risk - and you will be betting a mortgage's worth of money in so doing. BUT if you are going to UVA, have life/work experience that your K-JD peers do not, and have done some reasonable degree of research beforehand about your career planning, the odds will be quite favorable. Nobody got anywhere financially without taking some risks (absent being born into wealth/privilege) - a UVA JD puts you in a better position than many.

No.

Ron Don Volante wrote:

BigZuck wrote:

Ron Don Volante wrote:I think Vanderbilt (or maybe UT) would be a good option here. It'll be a lot cheaper than UVA and the biglaw chances are still pretty solid. It's a lot less risk for a pretty good shot at the same reward.

He's probably going to have to gun for NYC

That's doable from median at UVA. I think it would be generous to say that's doable with top 25% at UT/Vandy (er, well, UT at least, maybe it's easier at Vandy, a Vandy student would have to confirm). And there is a pretty solid gap between median and top 25% grades.

Obviously we would have to see the numbers but I'm not sure that Vandy with 45K or so would be better than UVA sticker here. Saving 50-60K might not be worth the sizeable hit to big law chances and he's going to be buried by debt either way.

He'd be looking at ~75K at Vandy. I didn't see that part of NYC. I assumed we were talking any biglaw or practicing generally in the southeast. If goals are outside the region I agree UVA is probably worth the extra debt.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Retake and then ED NW

HomericVoice wrote:Ehh, for what it's worth, I've taken the LSAT four times. I think a 169 is about the ceiling for me.