Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

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BNA
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Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BNA » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:45 pm

U of Tennessee (72) or Alabama (23) for Nashville firms? Both free.

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romothesavior
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby romothesavior » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:50 pm

The rankings are worthless. Use the placement data, not USNWR.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:51 pm

Probably neither, but definitely not Alabama. If you're a local with top grades at Vandy you'd still struggle to break into the market (or at least that's what I was told when considering Vandy).

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gamerish
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BNA
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BNA » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:57 pm

Any way to compare actual placement numbers in a specific city? Two different, somewhat knowledgable people told me that UT actually places more of their class in Nashville than VU. Sounds crazy, but could there be something to that?

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby Ron Don Volante » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:11 pm

BNA wrote:Any way to compare actual placement numbers in a specific city? Two different, somewhat knowledgable people told me that UT actually places more of their class in Nashville than VU. Sounds crazy, but could there be something to that?

Unfortunately not. At least by the data publicly available. But if you set up an appointment with CSO people from UT, you might be able to get them to show you their raw data. Worked for me on a visit.

I would not be shocked if this stat were true. Vandy isn't horribly generous with scholarships, and most grads probably cant afford to get paid 50-60K a year to stick around Nashville (which is what the vast majority of entry-level legal jobs pay). Also Vandy has a largely out of state population, and as small law jobs are often about hustle, locals might have an advantage over Vandy folks not from Tenn., and the Vandy grads who missed out on biglaw might self-select back to their home regions for one reason or another.

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Louis1127
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby Louis1127 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:01 am

Better be at the top of the class from Bama to get Nashville, assuming you're not talking about shitlaw.

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Winston1984
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby Winston1984 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:01 am

BNA wrote:Any way to compare actual placement numbers in a specific city? Two different, somewhat knowledgable people told me that UT actually places more of their class in Nashville than VU. Sounds crazy, but could there be something to that?

Agree with Ron Don's earlier post here. It is very possible. There are also lots of Vandy kids that are targeting other southern markets (Birmingham, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if Tennessee did better, but at equal costs (probably not going to be the case) I would definitely take Vandy.

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jk148706
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby jk148706 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:48 pm

Louis1127 wrote:Better be at the top of the class from Bama to get Nashville, assuming you're not talking about shitlaw.


even top students at Vandy struggle to get Nashville without ties

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deadpanic
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby deadpanic » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:51 pm

jk148706 wrote:
Louis1127 wrote:Better be at the top of the class from Bama to get Nashville, assuming you're not talking about shitlaw.


even top students at Vandy struggle to get Nashville without ties


Agree with this; Nashville is an extremely tough market to crack.

Don't go to Bama over UT if you want to work in Tennessee, but I would not be Nashville or bust, either.

wolfie_m.
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby wolfie_m. » Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:49 pm

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jk148706
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby jk148706 » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:20 pm

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BNA
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BNA » Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:31 pm

I'm sensing some Nashville experience between a few of you, so I'll extend the conversation. I'm from Nashville, but joined the Navy and am now back and waiting for 1L this fall. If I were to decide on UT, any advice on plan of attack aside from grades? Thanks for the feedback to this point.

wolfie_m.
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby wolfie_m. » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:14 pm

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby lacrossebrother » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:28 pm

You should find some 2013/2014 grads at Nashville firms from those two schools and ask them about their experiences.

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baal hadad
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby baal hadad » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

If you want to work in Nashville and are bust (which I don't recommend) I'd probablytry to go to vanderbilt

BNA
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BNA » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:02 pm

wolfie_m. wrote:
BNA wrote:I'm sensing some Nashville experience between a few of you, so I'll extend the conversation. I'm from Nashville, but joined the Navy and am now back and waiting for 1L this fall. If I were to decide on UT, any advice on plan of attack aside from grades? Thanks for the feedback to this point.


Okay, given the following preconditions:

1. You can't/won't do anything other than law school.

2. You can't retake or else wait to get a better school than Alabama. (Frankly, if you can get into Alabama, I'm curious to know your stats: am I correct in assuming that law school is free because of the Navy? Not trying to be rude with that question, btw.)

3. You can't/won't do Navy JAG, which I know nothing about.

What little advice I can give:

1. Pick Alabama because I think your chances at having two markets to apply to--Nashville and Alabama--are marginally better than they would be at UT.

2. Be ready to work very hard to get very good grades.

3. Network a lot.

4. Nashville and Birmingham are weird in that many major firms rely heavily on 1L hires. Most also do split summers and have lower acceptance rates. (BABC tries to pass off its acceptance rate at 100% but this is so only because it weeds out people in 1L.) So first semester 1L is *extremely* important.


Law school is really just the (my) best use of the GI Bill. I have a trash UG degree, so it makes sense to follow up with something that stands alone. I'm a splitter at both schools. I think the military card helped. Retesting is not in the cards. I've got to get my career going. If I were to retake, it would be because I take a job in DC and need to get into GULC's PT. Finally, I'm done with the military - especially the judicial system. I've witnessed most JAGs lead painfully boring lives, not to mention they're routinely supplanted around the world.

Thanks for the advice - Particularly the last bit.

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Ron Don Volante
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby Ron Don Volante » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:34 pm

Dude you have a GI Bill? You absolutely need to go to Vanderbilt. With your UA scholly we can't be talking about more than two or three points from getting in. Get a job in nashville in the meantime and work on the LSAT until you get the score you need.

You talk about needing to get your career going, but getting two more questions correct on the LSAT -- even if it takes two years -- and going to Vanderbilt is going to take your career to a level that will likely be altogether unattainable as a UT grad.

Nomo
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby Nomo » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:42 pm

Its harder to get good jobs in mid-sized cities than it is in large cities. That's especially true for "cool" cities that have elite law schools of their own. Austin and Nashville are almost certainly the most competitive legal markets for this reason. I wouldn't base a decision on the ability to get a good job in Nashville.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:53 pm

Are your numbers 161/3.0 ? (Based on your earlier posts.) If so, then Vanderbilt doesn't seem like a realistic option.

BNA
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BNA » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:24 pm

They are, so you see my concern. Taking more time off in hopes of hitting the 168 I need is a huge gamble when I'm already in at schools that have high potential in Nashville as is. Besides, I'm not smart enough to compete with those kids. I'd be in the bottom of the class, and about 60k in debt.

BigZuck
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BigZuck » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:11 am

BNA wrote:They are, so you see my concern. Taking more time off in hopes of hitting the 168 I need is a huge gamble when I'm already in at schools that have high potential in Nashville as is. Besides, I'm not smart enough to compete with those kids. I'd be in the bottom of the class, and about 60k in debt.


Your class rank will probably be pretty similar. Or at least similar enough to not make a difference for career prospects

Either you got it or you don't when it comes to law school smartz, IMO. Really unlikely you would soar at a TT but sink at a T16 or whatever Vandy is

wolfie_m.
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby wolfie_m. » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:51 pm

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BNA
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby BNA » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:54 pm

wolfie_m. wrote:
BNA wrote:Law school is really just the (my) best use of the GI Bill. I have a trash UG degree, so it makes sense to follow up with something that stands alone. . . . Retesting is not in the cards. I've got to get my career going. . . . I've witnessed most JAGs lead painfully boring lives, not to mention they're routinely supplanted around the world.


I'm not trying to scare/berate you TLS-style, but I don't think these are very good reasons to go to law school. Law school can be very emotionally and mentally taxing in a way that you can't understand until you've experienced it. "Getting your career going" may very well not happen from either Alabama or UT. What are you going to do if you strike out? Sure, you won't have law school debt, but you will have wasted three years of life.

I really hope you to sit down with some attorneys from Nashville at the lower end of the prestige food chain and ask them about their experiences--particularly any attorneys who know you well. I'm skeptical that law school is your best use of your GI Bill benefits, and I think you ought to get creative and think through some other options. Seriously.



I really do appreciate your perspective, and believe me, I'm skeptical myself. But I do have great fallbacks, although they're probably all with the government (which I'm trying to avoid). And I'm not necessarily just picking a degree because it's the best option. I suppose I overstated that earlier; I do have a genuine interest in the law, and the stress of studying for exams is unlikely to touch what 4 years in DC just did to me. I've had a chance to talk at length with several people. Some look like they're about to jump off a parking garage, and some seem overly satisfied. I think perspective plays a big part, but people with a tendency toward law seem to be "half empty" kind of folks.

kartelite
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Re: Rank v Alum for Southern Placement

Postby kartelite » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:01 pm

Ron Don Volante wrote:
BNA wrote:Any way to compare actual placement numbers in a specific city? Two different, somewhat knowledgable people told me that UT actually places more of their class in Nashville than VU. Sounds crazy, but could there be something to that?

Unfortunately not. At least by the data publicly available. But if you set up an appointment with CSO people from UT, you might be able to get them to show you their raw data. Worked for me on a visit.

I would not be shocked if this stat were true. Vandy isn't horribly generous with scholarships, and most grads probably cant afford to get paid 50-60K a year to stick around Nashville (which is what the vast majority of entry-level legal jobs pay). Also Vandy has a largely out of state population, and as small law jobs are often about hustle, locals might have an advantage over Vandy folks not from Tenn., and the Vandy grads who missed out on biglaw might self-select back to their home regions for one reason or another.


As of last year, I've got 253 VU alumni at BigLaw (100+ lawyer firms) in Nashville, 159 from UT. That's all lawyers, not just recent placement though. Looking at 2010-2013 grads, it's 38 VU to 28 UT.




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