Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

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hooklaw
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Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby hooklaw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:46 am

B o
Last edited by hooklaw on Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

lnh819
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby lnh819 » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:49 am

I say not to go to Penn State even with the full ride. The school is going through a transitional period (splitting the two semi-connected law campuses into two completely distinct entities) and does not place well at all outside of central PA. You'd end up working in Harrisburg for the rest of your life making 45-50k a year (which doesn't go far in the expensive northeast) and that'd be a good outcome compared to most of your classmates!

UH isn't a terrible choice here if you get a good scholarship. They have a great reputation within Houston. Many international companies have offices in Houston, which could help your international law goals, although you should really develop an interest in some other areas. There are not distinct international law firms like there are in other areas (personal injury, criminal defense, etc) so it can be nearly impossible to break into that field, especially if you aren't bilingual (preferably in Chinese, Japanese, or Arabic).

Oh, and UH/SMU/STCL/UT ALL have SIGNIFICANTLY more clout in Texas than Penn State. Do NOT leave Texas, unless it's for someplace in the T-14, if you hope to work in Texas after graduation!!! You're gonna need that alumni network!

PoopNpants
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby PoopNpants » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:50 am

Why don't you retake the LSAT

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forza
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby forza » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:26 am

All of these schools except Texas are dumpster fires. Retake the LSAT. And international law isn't a thing.

Big Dog
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby Big Dog » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:57 am

if working in Techsus is your goal, attending LS is PA is a waste of three years.

Everyone of the schools on your list are local, even UT to a significant extent. For example, George Mason doesn't place much beyond its neighboring zip codes.

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middlebear
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby middlebear » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:03 pm

hooklaw wrote:I am looking at international law which I feel sets me apart from the rest of the applicant pool and may increase my chances of acceptance at the more competitive schools.


Please, please be aware that 1) "international law" is not really a distinct field, especially when looking for jobs and 2) everyone and their mother claims to be interested in it.

lawschoolftw
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby lawschoolftw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:35 pm

But, I took international criminal law in law school so it must be a real thing!

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romothesavior
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby romothesavior » Sat Feb 07, 2015 1:45 pm

So many issues here...

International law isn't a thing for the overwhelming majority of people. And to the extent it is a thing, it's not a thing for people from schools like Penn State or South Texas College of Law. What do you even mean by "international law?" What type of job are you looking for that you think law school can help you get?

The schools you listed are very, very regional. Aside from Texas, none are a good investment without a full ride and a desire to practice in that market. And even Texas is pretty regional.

Please do your homework before you go to law school and spend all this money and time. Law school is probe the the biggest investment you'll ever make in your life, so don't go in blind. First, go do some research on job prospects and the legal market. Start with Law School Transparency's excellent data, and you'll see that HUGE numbers of people from these schools never find gainful legal employment. Second, figure out exactly what it is you want to do, because saying "international law" shows your naivete and you will almost certainly never do international law. Especially from these schools, family law, criminal law, and other local small firm work would be a great outcome.

Once you've done your research, if you still think law school is for you, then retake the LSAT and go to an elite school or go to a strong regional school for cheap.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:00 pm

I agree with the above comments. Penn State, even on a full tuition scholarship, is only a good option for those willing to live & work in Central Pennsylvania (housing is very reasonable, however).
The University of Houston is an attractive option if you receive significant scholarship money & want to live & practice in the Houston, Texas area.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:29 pm

there are two ways to apply to law school.

the first is to apply to the national schools with diverse professional ambition, i.e. Chicago, Duke, Harvard, Columbia, Stanford, ect.

the second is to apply to a number of regional schools concentrated one or a couple particular legal markets with specific professional ambition.

you seem to have chosen neither. try again.

outrageousresipsa
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby outrageousresipsa » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:43 pm

Technically, International Law is a real thing, so for anyone who says differently, they are flat out ignorant. It may be considered a very general and broad statement, but it is a real thing.

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sublime
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby sublime » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:52 pm

..

outrageousresipsa
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby outrageousresipsa » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:54 pm

sublime wrote:
outrageousresipsa wrote:Technically, International Law is a real thing, so for anyone who says differently, they are flat out ignorant. It may be considered a very general and broad statement, but it is a real thing.



Nobody is saying that it doesn't exist at all. It's just that you don't have any shot at it coming from those schools and shouldn't even count on it coming from elite schools.


Sure, but thats like saying that "Constitutional Appellate Law" isn't a real thing simply because you don't have a shot at doing it coming from a school outside T14…

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sublime
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby sublime » Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:57 pm

..

outrageousresipsa
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby outrageousresipsa » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:05 pm

Lol, not with the attitude…I guess thats just for those of us who are slightly more intellectual and worthy of such a cause

BigZuck
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:06 pm

outrageousresipsa wrote:Technically, International Law is a real thing, so for anyone who says differently, they are flat out ignorant. It may be considered a very general and broad statement, but it is a real thing.


Educate us

What is international law?

outrageousresipsa
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby outrageousresipsa » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:10 pm

National Security for one…Anything that has to do with international policy (drones, rules of engagement, treatises)…Trademarks are international, copyrights are international (in case you didn't know, those are governed by international treaties)…international arbitration, conflict of laws…just to name a few for those who aren't quite up to a proper standard of knowledge
Last edited by outrageousresipsa on Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ramius
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby Ramius » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:13 pm

outrageousresipsa wrote:Lol, not with the attitude…I guess thats just for those of us who are slightly more intellectual and worthy of such a cause


Hey everyone, we have an INTELLECTUAL here! Get out your notebooks, they're gonna school everyone on what's possible with some drive and ambition!

outrageousresipsa
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby outrageousresipsa » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:14 pm

Ramius wrote:
outrageousresipsa wrote:Lol, not with the attitude…I guess thats just for those of us who are slightly more intellectual and worthy of such a cause


Hey everyone, we have an INTELLECTUAL here! Get out your notebooks, they're gonna school everyone on what's possible with some drive and ambition!


Been there and done that, so yeah actually

hooklaw
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby hooklaw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:21 pm

...

So what I'm seeing here is go ahead and take the penn state scholarship so I can either do international law or constitutional appellate law. Deal. Thanks guys, this was certainly the guidance I was looking for!

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Ramius
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby Ramius » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:23 pm

hooklaw wrote:...

So what I'm seeing here is go ahead and take the penn state scholarship so I can either do international law or constitutional appellate law. Deal. Thanks guys, this was certainly the guidance I was looking for!


This is all you need to care about...

So many issues here...

International law isn't a thing for the overwhelming majority of people. And to the extent it is a thing, it's not a thing for people from schools like Penn State or South Texas College of Law. What do you even mean by "international law?" What type of job are you looking for that you think law school can help you get?

The schools you listed are very, very regional. Aside from Texas, none are a good investment without a full ride and a desire to practice in that market. And even Texas is pretty regional.

Please do your homework before you go to law school and spend all this money and time. Law school is probe the the biggest investment you'll ever make in your life, so don't go in blind. First, go do some research on job prospects and the legal market. Start with Law School Transparency's excellent data, and you'll see that HUGE numbers of people from these schools never find gainful legal employment. Second, figure out exactly what it is you want to do, because saying "international law" shows your naivete and you will almost certainly never do international law. Especially from these schools, family law, criminal law, and other local small firm work would be a great outcome.

Once you've done your research, if you still think law school is for you, then retake the LSAT and go to an elite school or go to a strong regional school for cheap.

hooklaw
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby hooklaw » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:54 pm

B o
Last edited by hooklaw on Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ramius
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby Ramius » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:05 pm

No one here is saying it's T14 or bust. T14 is the surest path to a desirable financial outcome, but even some T14 choices aren't desirable.

What TLS largely aims to do is make people think long and hard about their goals, their opportunities, and whether the choices they are making are smart ones.

UH on a full ride is a good outcome for someone wanting TX outcomes. PSU is not, regardless of financial aid.

What you need to do is look at your goals (this means what job you want to get, not what you want to study), research what it will take to reach those goals, and figure out what it will take to accomplish those goals. Too many applicants go into the application process where acceptance is the endgame. That is just the beginning. Once you have all options on the table, weigh them, research more based on your goals, and figure out if you can accomplish those goals with your options on the table.

If this comes off as condescending, that's too bad, because TLS will never be a cheerleader. TLS community exists to help each other make smart decisions. If the overwhelming response is a bad one, chances are you need to ask yourself why that is the case.

BigZuck
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:17 pm

I go to UT. I targeted Houston during OCI. I think you're way overestimating UH's placement. It's a solid regional school and is just fine if you want small firm/local government type work in Houston. It's a poor choice for Houston big law. I mean, UT is an iffy choice for Houston big law.

Also, I don't know of any firm that pays 220K. You sure about that figure?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Law School struggles-Penn State, Houston, South Texas etc

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:55 pm

outrageousresipsa wrote:Lol, not with the attitude…I guess thats just for those of us who are slightly more intellectual and worthy of such a cause

Oh for god's sake don't do this.




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