GW or BU for patent law

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runinthefront
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:32 pm

ok

TheNextAmendment
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby TheNextAmendment » Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:30 pm

lawschoolftw wrote:
runinthefront wrote:For $298,000 before scholarships, or even $175,000 with scholarships/COL factored in--yeah 30% big law placement is pretty poor.

The question is not whether the placement is pretty poor "for being outside of the T14," the question is whether anyone should be paying six figures for law school with biglaw ambitions outside of the T14


Well, true. But that's true of all law school investments. Having been out of the law school game for years, I honestly don't know if 30 percent big law placement is poor compres to the BUs BCs and other schools on par with GW.


Your point is well taken. You are correct that 30% biglaw placement is not bad for a non-T14 school, but you are talking success on a comparative level. With all due respect, you went to law school in a different legal market and academic sphere. I doubt that you went to GW when only 60% got full time legal jobs 9 months out of school. Furthermore, I know you didn't pay $300k total coa for such odds. If you did, please correct me. Overall though I agree what you're saying, at the right cost GW is a fine pathway to practice.

illinoisengineer
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby illinoisengineer » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:39 am

InTheHouse wrote:What are you talking about? No one suggested working in industry (even though that's a great idea). We suggested working as a technology specialist/patent agent at a LAW FIRM. BEFORE law school. You don't have to pass the bar to get hired by a law firm (although it helps). I'd assume firms would start you at $70k-90k. At least that where my offers were 7-8 years ago.


Yes, I know you suggested working as a patent agent at a law firm before law school. In the context of what mickey_mouse was saying I glanced over "the labor market" thinking it meant working in industry, but looking more closely I see it just meant a manual labor job. And don't worry, I've had those jobs and am currently working one right now haha

InTheHouse wrote:Drafting patent applications isn't as sexy as it sounds. 70-80% of the "inventions" you'll be working with are minor improvements on existing (usually boring) technology. I've worked as an engineer. I've worked as a patent agent. Actually, I've worked as an examiner too. Being a patent agent/prosecution attorney is the most boring job of all. However, the hours aren't shabby and the money is great. Unlike a lot of other people making the leap to law school, you have a opportunity to try out your future career before blowing through $300,000 of your (or your parents') money. I wouldn't be surprised if you found acting as a glorified translator between inventors and the U.S. Patent Office to be too boring a job to make a career out of.


I understand it may not be the most exciting job, but neither was working as an engineer in a corporation when I did. Constantly looking in microscopes and every project being pretty much the same thing, even though they were different, got very mind numbing. I could also never do an engineering research job. With patents, even though the process is always the same, at least the inventions vary from different fields of study. I plan on starting in patent prosecution, but getting a law degree opens me up to other opportunities to move on from that. I may move over to litigation, where I've learned from an attorney that getting a few years of patent prosecution experience before starting litigation is a route he would suggest to anyone anyway. Or, I was also thinking of exploring entrepreneurial law when I am in law school since I received a business education as well and have an interest there too. Anyone have any opinion on that route?

Plus it wouldn't be $300,000 of my money. If I go to BU I can hopefully negotiate with them to get the COA under $100,000. And that includes cost of living which I would also be paying if I had an engineering job, or any job, so you can subtract approximately $46,000 from that leaving the actual cost around $50,000 for the law degree. (not considering forgone wages from a job I could have been working of course).

illinoisengineer
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby illinoisengineer » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:52 am

runinthefront wrote:By debt-financing, does that mean your parents will be paying straight out of their bank account, or are they going to be financing through loans of their own?

Not exactly sure, I don't believe they would be taking anything out of their retirement fund, but I know they would not be taking out any loans.

runinthefront wrote:With 1-2 years of working as a patent agent (or pretty much anything), and four more questions right on the LSAT, you're probably close to a lock for NU (and would definitely net $-$$ at a T14 or $$$ at the schools you're considering).

I know what you're saying, but I just don't think I could study for the LSAT again with no guarantee I would actually do better, and then no guarantee that if I did I would actually get into the better schools. I spent two entire summers studying for it, and the second one was just such a big disappointment for how much time I essentially wasted.

runinthefront wrote:Whatever you end up deciding, just make sure you don't do this 1L year. Focus on your grades.

Yea don't worry, wasn't planning on it. I've heard from enough people that 1L grades are the most important in law school since they springboard everything else.

Iron_man
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby Iron_man » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:30 am

illinoisengineer wrote:I know what you're saying, but I just don't think I could study for the LSAT again with no guarantee I would actually do better, and then no guarantee that if I did I would actually get into the better schools.


You've been given some good advice, and you should think really hard about working as a patent agent first. Just to explain further, patent prosecution is often fixed fee - firms get the same amount of money per application regardless of who drafts them. So patent agents have the same job as the attorneys, they just have lower billing goals (i.e., less number of apps) that they need to hit. But the firm may also pay out bonuses based on hours billed, meaning patent agents can make just as much as attorneys for close to the same amount of work. Law school really only helps for becoming partner and supervising. I'm sure that varies big time firm to firm, but at least some firms handle it that way. Interests can change and a lot of times, agents will do it for a few years, then move back to engineering.

The only other thing is that I also don't know how your degree would be received. Maybe its just my firm, but none of the people I work with have that background, and anything outside of the ordinary ME, EE, CS, ChemE can make things a little tougher (which to me is a little silly, but it is what it is). I think my firm would give someone like that a try with the right grades/school, but any agent experience would make it a lot easier.

InTheHouse
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby InTheHouse » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:48 am

"Entrepreneurial law?" You really need to do more research on what you're getting into. BU and GW aren't going to get you into firms like Gunderson Dettmer or into Technology Transactions groups at firms like MoFo.

Its your life kid. You likely aren't getting much more than patent prosecution jobs out of BU or GW. You seem set on going straight out of UG to LS regardless of what you hear. Enjoy.

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rondemarino
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby rondemarino » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:09 am

illinoisengineer wrote:I may move over to litigation, where I've learned from an attorney that getting a few years of patent prosecution experience before starting litigation is a route he would suggest to anyone anyway. Or, I was also thinking of exploring entrepreneurial law when I am in law school since I received a business education as well and have an interest there too. Anyone have any opinion on that route?


entrepreneurial law? Is this just another way of saying "I want to work with cool startups?"

Also, you're getting some bad advice. You might be able to transition to litigation from patent prosecution, but its not common and you'll have very little control over such a move.

lawschoolftw
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby lawschoolftw » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:28 am

TheNextAmendment wrote:
lawschoolftw wrote:
runinthefront wrote:For $298,000 before scholarships, or even $175,000 with scholarships/COL factored in--yeah 30% big law placement is pretty poor.

The question is not whether the placement is pretty poor "for being outside of the T14," the question is whether anyone should be paying six figures for law school with biglaw ambitions outside of the T14


Well, true. But that's true of all law school investments. Having been out of the law school game for years, I honestly don't know if 30 percent big law placement is poor compres to the BUs BCs and other schools on par with GW.


Your point is well taken. You are correct that 30% biglaw placement is not bad for a non-T14 school, but you are talking success on a comparative level. With all due respect, you went to law school in a different legal market and academic sphere. I doubt that you went to GW when only 60% got full time legal jobs 9 months out of school. Furthermore, I know you didn't pay $300k total coa for such odds. If you did, please correct me. Overall though I agree what you're saying, at the right cost GW is a fine pathway to practice.


Fair enough (I'm not that far out though, just 2013 and you're correct that I had about 100K Worh of scholarship money). I agree that at sticker, GW (and any other law school) can be a terrible investment. I just think GW gets a lot of hate on TLS, some of which is deserved, but I also think a lot of the criticism holds for many law schools. In any event, best of luck to OP with whatever you decide!

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FSK
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby FSK » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:39 am

Current GW student here.

GW has a good national reach for patent law, but materials science isn't getting you far. You're still pretty good here with EE/CS/Bio PhD, beyond that it won't save your grades.

After being in a similar dilemma myself, I wish I would have chosen the hard third option and retaken. Feel free to PM me with specific questions. I wouldn't advise anyone to go here with biglaw as a goal.

collegebum1989
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby collegebum1989 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:11 pm

OP: current GW student with engineering background and working at a biglaw IP firm. PM me if you want specific comments about my experience here and the firm.

TheNextAmendment
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby TheNextAmendment » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:55 pm

lawschoolftw wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:
lawschoolftw wrote:
runinthefront wrote:For $298,000 before scholarships, or even $175,000 with scholarships/COL factored in--yeah 30% big law placement is pretty poor.

The question is not whether the placement is pretty poor "for being outside of the T14," the question is whether anyone should be paying six figures for law school with biglaw ambitions outside of the T14


Well, true. But that's true of all law school investments. Having been out of the law school game for years, I honestly don't know if 30 percent big law placement is poor compres to the BUs BCs and other schools on par with GW.


Your point is well taken. You are correct that 30% biglaw placement is not bad for a non-T14 school, but you are talking success on a comparative level. With all due respect, you went to law school in a different legal market and academic sphere. I doubt that you went to GW when only 60% got full time legal jobs 9 months out of school. Furthermore, I know you didn't pay $300k total coa for such odds. If you did, please correct me. Overall though I agree what you're saying, at the right cost GW is a fine pathway to practice.


Fair enough (I'm not that far out though, just 2013 and you're correct that I had about 100K Worh of scholarship money). I agree that at sticker, GW (and any other law school) can be a terrible investment. I just think GW gets a lot of hate on TLS, some of which is deserved, but I also think a lot of the criticism holds for many law schools. In any event, best of luck to OP with whatever you decide!


Oh you graduated in 2013? Never mind then, you did face similar coa and employment prospects (if not worse). You're right, GW does get a pretty bad rap on TLS, but I think thats mostly because of the pathways to practice program. I'm curious, as a recent grad of GW, at what coa would you recommend attending GW?

lawschoolftw
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby lawschoolftw » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:10 pm

runinthefront wrote:
Oh you graduated in 2013? Never mind then, you did face similar coa and employment prospects (if not worse). You're right, GW does get a pretty bad rap on TLS, but I think thats mostly because of the pathways to practice program. I'm curious, as a recent grad of GW, at what coa would you recommend attending GW?
[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Yeah the pathways program is a joke to game the rankings, but I will say that I also have a handful of friends who used their pathways job to be offered full time employment where they were or used it a springboard to something else. I'm not nieve to think that the program is intended to be for anything other than artificially inflating employment statistics, but it does also benefit the students who take advantage of it.

As for COA, I'm not sure there's a blanket statement that can be made about this. A lot would, of course, depend on your career goals, current employment situation , etc. As a poli-sci major from a non-reputable state school, the 125K investment (more, when you consider that its financed and I'm paying interest) was more than worth it in light of the fact that I'm working mid-law with a salary north of six figures. I recognize that everyone isn't as fortunate as I am, but ultimately, while student loan debt is a burden, it's more manageable than other debt as you can take advantage of programs like PAYE and IBR. Ultimately, if you actually want to be a lawyer and you've exhausted your ability to do better on the LSAT, GW is a fine school to attend. I guess the TL DR version is, I wouldn't ever suggest going to GW over a T14 Over a strong regional in a state in which you want to practice, but if you truly want to be a lawyer and have a desire to practice in the DMV area, GW is a great school.

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mi-chan17
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby mi-chan17 » Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:42 pm

lawschoolftw wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
Oh you graduated in 2013? Never mind then, you did face similar coa and employment prospects (if not worse). You're right, GW does get a pretty bad rap on TLS, but I think thats mostly because of the pathways to practice program. I'm curious, as a recent grad of GW, at what coa would you recommend attending GW?


Yeah the pathways program is a joke to game the rankings, but I will say that I also have a handful of friends who used their pathways job to be offered full time employment where they were or used it a springboard to something else. I'm not nieve to think that the program is intended to be for anything other than artificially inflating employment statistics, but it does also benefit the students who take advantage of it.

As for COA, I'm not sure there's a blanket statement that can be made about this. A lot would, of course, depend on your career goals, current employment situation , etc. As a poli-sci major from a non-reputable state school, the 125K investment (more, when you consider that its financed and I'm paying interest) was more than worth it in light of the fact that I'm working mid-law with a salary north of six figures. I recognize that everyone isn't as fortunate as I am, but ultimately, while student loan debt is a burden, it's more manageable than other debt as you can take advantage of programs like PAYE and IBR. Ultimately, if you actually want to be a lawyer and you've exhausted your ability to do better on the LSAT, GW is a fine school to attend. I guess the TL DR version is, I wouldn't ever suggest going to GW over a T14 Over a strong regional in a state in which you want to practice, but if you truly want to be a lawyer and have a desire to practice in the DMV area, GW is a great school.


+1. I agree with these points.

TheNextAmendment
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby TheNextAmendment » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:17 pm

lawschoolftw wrote:
Yeah the pathways program is a joke to game the rankings, but I will say that I also have a handful of friends who used their pathways job to be offered full time employment where they were or used it a springboard to something else. I'm not nieve to think that the program is intended to be for anything other than artificially inflating employment statistics, but it does also benefit the students who take advantage of it.

As for COA, I'm not sure there's a blanket statement that can be made about this. A lot would, of course, depend on your career goals, current employment situation , etc. As a poli-sci major from a non-reputable state school, the 125K investment (more, when you consider that its financed and I'm paying interest) was more than worth it in light of the fact that I'm working mid-law with a salary north of six figures. I recognize that everyone isn't as fortunate as I am, but ultimately, while student loan debt is a burden, it's more manageable than other debt as you can take advantage of programs like PAYE and IBR. Ultimately, if you actually want to be a lawyer and you've exhausted your ability to do better on the LSAT, GW is a fine school to attend. I guess the TL DR version is, I wouldn't ever suggest going to GW over a T14 Over a strong regional in a state in which you want to practice, but if you truly want to be a lawyer and have a desire to practice in the DMV area, GW is a great school.


Thanks for your input. Gl to you and congrats.

lawschoolftw
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby lawschoolftw » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:00 pm

TheNextAmendment wrote:
lawschoolftw wrote:
Yeah the pathways program is a joke to game the rankings, but I will say that I also have a handful of friends who used their pathways job to be offered full time employment where they were or used it a springboard to something else. I'm not nieve to think that the program is intended to be for anything other than artificially inflating employment statistics, but it does also benefit the students who take advantage of it.

As for COA, I'm not sure there's a blanket statement that can be made about this. A lot would, of course, depend on your career goals, current employment situation , etc. As a poli-sci major from a non-reputable state school, the 125K investment (more, when you consider that its financed and I'm paying interest) was more than worth it in light of the fact that I'm working mid-law with a salary north of six figures. I recognize that everyone isn't as fortunate as I am, but ultimately, while student loan debt is a burden, it's more manageable than other debt as you can take advantage of programs like PAYE and IBR. Ultimately, if you actually want to be a lawyer and you've exhausted your ability to do better on the LSAT, GW is a fine school to attend. I guess the TL DR version is, I wouldn't ever suggest going to GW over a T14 Over a strong regional in a state in which you want to practice, but if you truly want to be a lawyer and have a desire to practice in the DMV area, GW is a great school.


Thanks for your input. Gl to you and congrats.


No problem, and thanks. As an aside, I saw you deleted your earlier post where you offered up your criticisms of GW. I wouldn't. I think they're perfectly valid and good information for anyone considering GW. I just wanted to give the information some context.

TheNextAmendment
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby TheNextAmendment » Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:14 pm

lawschoolftw wrote:
TheNextAmendment wrote:
lawschoolftw wrote:
Yeah the pathways program is a joke to game the rankings, but I will say that I also have a handful of friends who used their pathways job to be offered full time employment where they were or used it a springboard to something else. I'm not nieve to think that the program is intended to be for anything other than artificially inflating employment statistics, but it does also benefit the students who take advantage of it.

As for COA, I'm not sure there's a blanket statement that can be made about this. A lot would, of course, depend on your career goals, current employment situation , etc. As a poli-sci major from a non-reputable state school, the 125K investment (more, when you consider that its financed and I'm paying interest) was more than worth it in light of the fact that I'm working mid-law with a salary north of six figures. I recognize that everyone isn't as fortunate as I am, but ultimately, while student loan debt is a burden, it's more manageable than other debt as you can take advantage of programs like PAYE and IBR. Ultimately, if you actually want to be a lawyer and you've exhausted your ability to do better on the LSAT, GW is a fine school to attend. I guess the TL DR version is, I wouldn't ever suggest going to GW over a T14 Over a strong regional in a state in which you want to practice, but if you truly want to be a lawyer and have a desire to practice in the DMV area, GW is a great school.


Thanks for your input. Gl to you and congrats.


No problem, and thanks. As an aside, I saw you deleted your earlier post where you offered up your criticisms of GW. I wouldn't. I think they're perfectly valid and good information for anyone considering GW. I just wanted to give the information some context.


I didn't delete for those reasons. I delete all posts that I wouldnt want traced back to me. I still stand by my analysis wholeheartedly.

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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby Megstew » Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:16 am

illinoisengineer wrote:So I studied Materials Science and Engineering with a concentration in electronic materials as an undergrad and am now going for patent law. I finally have my options narrowed down to George Washington or Boston University. I'm not really cemented on where I want to work after law school, but could see myself in Chicago, Boston, or maybe DC or Silicon Valley.

I've heard good things about both schools and there's aspects of both schools I like. Just based on pure academic offerings I'm leaning towards GW (ranked higher, strong externship program, clinic I want to participate in, more IP classes), but when considering the aspect of money it makes the decision very tough.

BU is offering me a $90K merit scholarship, and GW is offering $60K. However, when you factor in the increased tuition and cost of living at GW, the gap increases to about $60K. I'm going to visit both next week and will try to negotiate to see if either will increase their offer to make it an easier decision.

My main concern is getting a job after graduation. So in that regard, is going to GW really worth the extra 60K if I would enjoy going to BU also? What do you guys think?

Thanks


Honestly if I were you I would just email your BU offer to GW and ask them to match it, which they most probably will. GW is better known for IP and 25% of the class get jobs in firms sized 250 people and up, vs. the 19% BU gets. The cost of living in DC and Boston are almost identical. If your goals are IP, you should definitely pick GW.

illinoisengineer
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby illinoisengineer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:48 pm

rondemarino wrote:entrepreneurial law? Is this just another way of saying "I want to work with cool startups?"

Yes, it means I think it would be interesting to work with startups. No, I don't mean it in a totally naivete, dumb, uneducated way like you obviously think. That is what the prelaw adviser at UIUC called it when she made a suggestion about other tracks to look into while helping me sell myself better to Northwestern (since they are not an IP school). She said it was a newer subsection that was taking form. That is why Northwestern has an Entrepreneurship Law Center and Michigan has an Entrepreneurship Clinic and Duke recently started their Law & Entrepreneurship program. Here's a read for you: http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/l ... reneurship
rondemarino wrote:Also, you're getting some bad advice. You might be able to transition to litigation from patent prosecution, but its not common and you'll have very little control over such a move.

Well the attorney worked at a firm in Chicago where I'm pretty sure he said they had to prosecute patents for a couple years before they went in to litigation because it was important to know the patent process well when trying a case. He was named IP lawyer of the year for the Midwest in 2014.
InTheHouse wrote:"Entrepreneurial law?" You really need to do more research on what you're getting into.

I've tried to do research after the prelaw adviser suggested it like I said above, but there isn't much on it that I can find. That's why I said I was going to look into it in law school, but the plan right now is still to do patent prosecution.
Iron_man wrote:You've been given some good advice, and you should think really hard about working as a patent agent first. Just to explain further, patent prosecution is often fixed fee - firms get the same amount of money per application regardless of who drafts them. So patent agents have the same job as the attorneys, they just have lower billing goals (i.e., less number of apps) that they need to hit. But the firm may also pay out bonuses based on hours billed, meaning patent agents can make just as much as attorneys for close to the same amount of work. Law school really only helps for becoming partner and supervising. I'm sure that varies big time firm to firm, but at least some firms handle it that way. Interests can change and a lot of times, agents will do it for a few years, then move back to engineering.

First, I'm fairly certain I don't want to do engineering. The only way to move up is through management, which I don't want to do, unless you slowly move up from associate to senior to staff to fellow in the same company.
But, second, riddle me this. You actually think I could get a job as a patent agent by just graduating from UIUC engineering and passing the patent bar with no other education? Serious question because I have no idea, that just seems like a long shot to me. Unless I'm mistaken, don't patent agents usually have a stronger technical background (i.e. master's degrees or PhDs) than attorneys? I have zero desire to get a master's.
Iron_man wrote:The only other thing is that I also don't know how your degree would be received. Maybe its just my firm, but none of the people I work with have that background, and anything outside of the ordinary ME, EE, CS, ChemE can make things a little tougher (which to me is a little silly, but it is what it is). I think my firm would give someone like that a try with the right grades/school, but any agent experience would make it a lot easier.

I've talked to two patent attorneys who graduated Materials Science and Engineering from UIUC and they both said firms won't really know what it is, I'll just have to explain it and sell myself. I guess I didn't really know that, I thought it was fairly broad and would be good for patent law when I picked it. My education was a mix of mechanical, chemical, and electrical engineering.

BigZuck
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby BigZuck » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:09 pm

What is an "IP school"?

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rondemarino
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby rondemarino » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:37 pm

illinoisengineer wrote:
rondemarino wrote:entrepreneurial law? Is this just another way of saying "I want to work with cool startups?"

Yes, it means I think it would be interesting to work with startups. No, I don't mean it in a totally naivete, dumb, uneducated way like you obviously think. That is what the prelaw adviser at UIUC called it when she made a suggestion about other tracks to look into while helping me sell myself better to Northwestern (since they are not an IP school). She said it was a newer subsection that was taking form. That is why Northwestern has an Entrepreneurship Law Center and Michigan has an Entrepreneurship Clinic and Duke recently started their Law & Entrepreneurship program. Here's a read for you: http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/l ... reneurship


Sigh.

#1. Most prelaw advisors are useless. Everyone on TLS will concur. For example,
(a) there no such thing as an "IP school."
(b) both your LSAT and GPA are below Northwestern's median LSAT and GPA. Your chances of admission are close to nil (something you can verify here - http://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/search/).
(c) the only reason you MIGHT need to sell yourself to Northwestern (if you had the numbers) is because you are going straight from UG to law school. That fact that you're interested in IP isn't going hurt you. Only a moron would hold it against you that you want to go to law school for IP.

#2. Startups have a lot of legal needs. If you're curious, get this book from your library - Lifecycle of Technology Company by Edwin Miller.

illinoisengineer wrote:
rondemarino wrote:Also, you're getting some bad advice. You might be able to transition to litigation from patent prosecution, but its not common and you'll have very little control over such a move.

Well the attorney worked at a firm in Chicago where I'm pretty sure he said they had to prosecute patents for a couple years before they went in to litigation because it was important to know the patent process well when trying a case. He was named IP lawyer of the year for the Midwest in 2014.


Well, get a job at this guy's firm. It is rare at my firm and most other firms.


illinoisengineer wrote:But, second, riddle me this. You actually think I could get a job as a patent agent by just graduating from UIUC engineering and passing the patent bar with no other education? Serious question because I have no idea, that just seems like a long shot to me. Unless I'm mistaken, don't patent agents usually have a stronger technical background (i.e. master's degrees or PhDs) than attorneys? I have zero desire to get a master's.


Yes. I did this. And it sounds like InTheHouse did this too.

If you take away anything from this post, it should be that your prelaw advisor's advice is most likely terrible. Happy to be corrected on this point by any TLSers.

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rondemarino
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby rondemarino » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:45 pm

BTW, if you haven't seen lawschoolnumbers.com yet, here's NW's admissions graph for last year (http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1314).

As you can see, its not a matter of selling yourself. Its a matter of having a GPA above 3.7 and an LSAT at or above 168.

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Desert Fox
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Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby Desert Fox » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:47 pm

I think realistically you might want to reconsider aiming for Silicon Valley where all the semiconductor work is located. If you sell it right, you can position yourself as a good at semiconductors, which scares a lot of patent attorneys.

But honestly I'd stay in engineering I were you. And I sorta once was, I'm an UIUC engineer turned lawyer. By the time you spend 3 years in school and then pay back your massive loans, it's not worth it.

If you do end up going to school, PM me in a year, my firm likes to find 1Ls and I'd love to help an Illini out.

illinoisengineer
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby illinoisengineer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:30 pm

rondemarino wrote:#1. Most prelaw advisors are useless. Everyone on TLS will concur. For example,
(a) there no such thing as an "IP school."
(b) both your LSAT and GPA are below Northwestern's median LSAT and GPA. Your chances of admission are close to nil (something you can verify here - http://mylsn.info/r/pre-law/admissions/search/).
(c) the only reason you MIGHT need to sell yourself to Northwestern (if you had the numbers) is because you are going straight from UG to law school. That fact that you're interested in IP isn't going hurt you. Only a moron would hold it against you that you want to go to law school for IP.

Well maybe her advice was bad then. For the "Why Northwestern" essay and my personal statement she thought it would be good to be able to include specific school offerings for why I wanted to go there and how I would contribute to the law school because I was below their median. And since they aren't known for IP (all I meant by IP school) I couldn't write about their IP clinic or society or journal or classes, etc.

I looked at all the numbers, I know of LSN and LST, and so no I did not expect to get in to Northwestern. It was the school I least expected to get in to since I was also coming straight from undergrad. But I can also see that their 25% LSAT is 164 so there are students that got in with my numbers. Granted they are likely underrepresented minorities or people with work experience, but it wasn't a zero percent chance (probably 1%).

illinoisengineer
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby illinoisengineer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:46 pm

For the people that are suggesting I work as a patent agent first,

Let's say I put down my seat deposit in April at BU or GW, since that's the deadline for the scholarships. May comes and I pass the patent bar. I retake the LSAT in June and get a 167-170 like I should have already gotten. I withdraw from BU or GW before the semester starts and find a job as a patent agent. I then apply to schools again either for the next cycle or the one after that (probably can't get a patent agent job for less than a year) and this time get in to Northwestern or Berkeley. However, I'm not getting much, if any, money from them so now I'm paying COA $230K+ for law school instead of <$100K.

Is that really worth it?

InTheHouse
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:52 am

Re: GW or BU for patent law

Postby InTheHouse » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:14 pm

illinoisengineer wrote:For the people that are suggesting I work as a patent agent first,

Let's say I put down my seat deposit in April at BU or GW, since that's the deadline for the scholarships. May comes and I pass the patent bar. I retake the LSAT in June and get a 167-170 like I should have already gotten. I withdraw from BU or GW before the semester starts and find a job as a patent agent. I then apply to schools again either for the next cycle or the one after that (probably can't get a patent agent job for less than a year) and this time get in to Northwestern or Berkeley. However, I'm not getting much, if any, money from them so now I'm paying COA $230K+ for law school instead of <$100K.

Is that really worth it?


That particular outcome? Not it my book.

Look you keep reading things into what people are posting. I'll speak for myself. One last time. The value of working as a patent agent is that you'll get a feel for what working in patent prosecution is like. Maybe you'll love it. If you do, it'll be that much easier to work part-time during your 2L and 3L years to make some extra coin (I did this). Maybe you'll find that what litigation is what you'd rather gun for. In that case, you might reconsider going to schools that don't give you great shots at litigation jobs. Maybe you'll learn about "entrepreneurial law," i.e., the Technology Transactions or Emerging Companies practice groups and figure out what you need to make into those areas. Maybe you'll find out that that you don't like working in the field of law. At all. In which case you won't have wasted 3 years and a hundred thousand dollars.

I don't think working as a patent agent is good idea because you should retake and go to a better school. I think its a good idea because you can walk into law school and have an educated idea on what you want to do with your legal career. Fuck, if you're going to spend a hundred thousand dollars on a education, don't you think you'd be better off taking full advantage of your time in law school?

With whatever you do, good luck.




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