HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

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Fred Norris
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HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Fred Norris » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:32 pm

Long time lurker who can't stay in the TLS closet any longer.

I'm in at HLS and SLS. Because spouse is quite successful (making near six figures), I will be looking at maybe 10k max per year at these schools. It sucks, but it is what it is.

A Hamilton is a Hamilton so expenses will only pretty much be living.

How much is a 1 br by Stanford vs. Harvard?

My immediate post law school goal is a federal clerkship. I see that Stanford runs laps around HLS for that. What gives? Self selection?

My long term goal is to pursue a lucrative legal career while nonetheless having the credibility to comment on non lucrative legal subjects. By this, I mean I am passionate about a legal subject that if persued professionally, would not allow for the kind of lifestyle I want to live. I do, however, want my work published and ideally be looked upon as a pundit on the subject (I have done a degree of TV pundit work for a different field).

My concern is that with a non HYS degree, it would take a lot more to establish the needed credibility.

I also want to have the ability to move into finance and innovation (start ups).

THIS IS PERIPHERAL STUFF. Just trying a half assed attempt of saying lay prestige without actually saying it.

EDIT: did some browsing. 5 years ago guy was looking at Levy vs. HLS. Are Penn's placements that much worse than Columbia?

The overwhelming consensus was f the money and go to HLS.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111395

Penn has one of the best big law rates by far. Why would anyone who wants to work for a law firm go somewhere other than Penn with a Levy?
Last edited by Fred Norris on Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

kaiser
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton

Postby kaiser » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:35 pm

Given your circumstances, I would pick the Hamilton at CLS in a heartbeat and not look back. I know people gets stars in their eyes when it comes to H and S, but at a certain point, you need to weigh the marginal advantages vs. the marginal additional costs. And given what you said, the marginal advantages clearly don't outweigh the additional costs.
Last edited by kaiser on Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FSK
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton

Postby FSK » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:36 pm

You said start-ups, credibility, and a wife who supports you. SLS easy. Stanford has no rival for putting people into startups, meets your other goals, and isn't on the EasTTT coast.

Fred Norris
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton

Postby Fred Norris » Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:42 pm

Spouse won't cover everything. I expect to pay max half living expenses in loans.

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gamerish
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Post removed...

Postby gamerish » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:17 pm

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banjo
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton

Postby banjo » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:26 pm

kaiser wrote:Given your circumstances, I would pick the Hamilton at CLS in a heartbeat and not look back. I know people gets stars in their eyes when it comes to H and S, but at a certain point, you need to weigh the marginal advantages vs. the marginal additional costs. And given what you said, the marginal advantages clearly don't outweigh the additional costs.


Agree with this. I'll add that I think LST understates your clerkship chances out of CLS. I get the impression that a lot of qualified people opt out or focus on SDNY/EDNY (both extremely competitive).

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LoganCouture
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton

Postby LoganCouture » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:42 pm

Can't comment on H but a 1BD near Stanford (aka in Palo Alto) will run you 2500-3000/month.

I'd be taking CLS with the Hamilton if I were you but there's really no bad option here.

Fred Norris
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Fred Norris » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:45 am

EDIT: did some browsing. 5 years ago guy was looking at Levy vs. HLS. Are Penn's placements that much worse than Columbia?

The overwhelming consensus was f the money and go to HLS.

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Emma.
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Emma. » Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:53 am

Given your long-term goals, why would you want to do a clerkship?

(Genuine question from someone who has done a couple fancy ones.)

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jbagelboy
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:11 am

Definitely Hamilton. The longer I've been in law school, the less I've understood people who choose one spot up in the us news and world report survey for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Also as Emma suggested, clarify your goals. No one in finance or at a small start up will care or be impressed by someone who worked in chambers for a year after law school. That's more of a pre-lit, pre-academia track.

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leslieknope
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby leslieknope » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:00 am

Fred Norris wrote: I do, however, want my work published and ideally be looked upon as a pundit on the subject (I have done a degree of TV pundit work for a different field).


You... want to go to law school to become a pundit? Wat?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:13 am

Fred Norris wrote:EDIT: did some browsing. 5 years ago guy was looking at Levy vs. HLS. Are Penn's placements that much worse than Columbia?

The overwhelming consensus was f the money and go to HLS.

TLS has become much more risk/debt averse in the past few years. Also, people just don't seem to view Penn in quite the same light as Columbia (obviously Penn is an excellent school with great employment numbers, but they are a little lower than Columbia's).

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MarkfromWI
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby MarkfromWI » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:33 am

Dan Abrams went to CLS. You'll be fine...

Nomo
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Nomo » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:41 am

I'm not sure why someone with your goals would want to do a clerkship. It sort of sounds like you're saying you want to be a big deal. So you're listing all the things that would make someone a big deal - clerkships are prestigious so I want one of those, biglaw is prestigious and has money so I want that, writing articles and appearing on TV spread my name so I want those, and everyone loves startups so I'd like to get involved there.

The problem is that the things you're listing just don't go to well together. There's not an obvious career path that moves you between these things. I think you should reassess your goals starting with this question: Do I want litigation or transactional?

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Mr. Elshal
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton

Postby Mr. Elshal » Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:49 am

lc39 wrote:Can't comment on H but a 1BD near Stanford (aka in Palo Alto) will run you 2500-3000/month.

I'd be taking CLS with the Hamilton if I were you but there's really no bad option here.


Can't comment on S but a 1BD across the street from HLS can be found for 1900. Prices go down as you move farther from the school, to the point that you could get a nice studio 10 minutes (walking) from the school for 1200-1300.

Of course there are more expensive places but that's the low end and is definitely attainable.

abl
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby abl » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:31 pm

lc39 wrote:Can't comment on H but a 1BD near Stanford (aka in Palo Alto) will run you <a href="tel:2500-3000">2500-3000</a>/month.

I'd be taking CLS with the Hamilton if I were you but there's really no bad option here.


False. A decent one bedroom on-campus can be had for around $1600. Near off-campus ranges from around $1300 on up, but I'd expect to pay something in the $1500-2000 range. SF is a whole different story.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby JohannDeMann » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:40 pm

What's changed - DF Is interviewing people now and he thinks you're an idiot for turning down 200k for one spot higher.

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koalacity
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby koalacity » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:04 pm

abl wrote:
lc39 wrote:Can't comment on H but a 1BD near Stanford (aka in Palo Alto) will run you <a href="tel:2500-3000">2500-3000</a>/month.

I'd be taking CLS with the Hamilton if I were you but there's really no bad option here.


False. A decent one bedroom on-campus can be had for around $1600. Near off-campus ranges from around $1300 on up, but I'd expect to pay something in the $1500-2000 range. SF is a whole different story.

Neither of these posts are quite right-in Munger, OP (assuming his SO moves with him) would be paying ~$1700 for a studio, ~$2300 for a 1BR. The very, very heavily subsidized off-campus apartments will be around $1700 for a studio/1BR, and $2100 for a 2BR. Without the subsidy, it'd be much more.

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Strangely Appealing
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Strangely Appealing » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:50 pm

Spouses can lose their lucrative jobs or lose their interest in being spouses before the bar exam. Yes, I'm a little ray of sunshine, I know. I'd just like to suggest taking a look at your financial picture sans spouse's earnings and reflecting on how that would inform your choice of law schools and how you would complete law school if Bad News came in the middle of IL or 2L. May you have a long and happy, well-funded marriage nevertheless.

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star fox
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby star fox » Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:40 pm

Take the no debt option from the elite law school. Don't be a fool.

Fred Norris
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Fred Norris » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:02 pm

Nomo wrote:I'm not sure why someone with your goals would want to do a clerkship. It sort of sounds like you're saying you want to be a big deal. So you're listing all the things that would make someone a big deal - clerkships are prestigious so I want one of those, biglaw is prestigious and has money so I want that, writing articles and appearing on TV spread my name so I want those, and everyone loves startups so I'd like to get involved there.

The problem is that the things you're listing just don't go to well together. There's not an obvious career path that moves you between these things. I think you should reassess your goals starting with this question: Do I want litigation or transactional?



Sorry for the lack of clarity. Very interested in litigation. I was just trying to give an example of something I saw as a peripheral intangible. Let's just call a spade a spade : lay prestige.

I always wish someone justified lay prestige. That is my half assed attempt.

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Emma.
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Emma. » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:17 pm

Fred Norris wrote:
Nomo wrote:I'm not sure why someone with your goals would want to do a clerkship. It sort of sounds like you're saying you want to be a big deal. So you're listing all the things that would make someone a big deal - clerkships are prestigious so I want one of those, biglaw is prestigious and has money so I want that, writing articles and appearing on TV spread my name so I want those, and everyone loves startups so I'd like to get involved there.

The problem is that the things you're listing just don't go to well together. There's not an obvious career path that moves you between these things. I think you should reassess your goals starting with this question: Do I want litigation or transactional?



Sorry for the lack of clarity. Very interested in litigation. I was just trying to give an example of something I saw as a peripheral intangible. Let's just call a spade a spade : lay prestige.

I always wish someone justified lay prestige. That is my half assed attempt.


Clerking has minimal lay prestige unless you are at SCOTUS. People say stuff like "oh, you are like the judge's paralegal?"

Fred Norris
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby Fred Norris » Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:36 pm

Emma. wrote:
Clerking has minimal lay prestige unless you are at SCOTUS. People say stuff like "oh, you are like the judge's paralegal?"


Lay prestige from HYS degree, not the clerking.

abl
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Re: HLS vs. SLS vs. Hamilton vs. Wtf has changed?

Postby abl » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:37 pm

koalacity wrote:
abl wrote:
lc39 wrote:Can't comment on H but a 1BD near Stanford (aka in Palo Alto) will run you <a href="tel:2500-3000">2500-3000</a>/month.

I'd be taking CLS with the Hamilton if I were you but there's really no bad option here.


False. A decent one bedroom on-campus can be had for around $1600. Near off-campus ranges from around $1300 on up, but I'd expect to pay something in the $1500-2000 range. SF is a whole different story.

Neither of these posts are quite right-in Munger, OP (assuming his SO moves with him) would be paying ~$1700 for a studio, ~$2300 for a 1BR. The very, very heavily subsidized off-campus apartments will be around $1700 for a studio/1BR, and $2100 for a 2BR. Without the subsidy, it'd be much more.



EV and Rains are both less than Munger, and if OP is ok in a Munger 2br or 4br with a roommate (what most law students do), that's less too. Fwiw I had a good friend who lived in an unsubsidized 2br house walking distance from campus for $1400. It was tiny as all get out but otherwise very nice. That's probably an outlier but there are definitely off-campus deals to be had in the $1500-2000 range that are more than nice enough if you're willing to look. If the OP is willing to look hard and hustle a bit for the right off campus place, I think $1500-2000 for a 1br is close to guaranteed and not out of the question for a 2br.




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